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How To Fix Flawless Blocks Simple And Clean

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.

Kinda pigging backing off my boy Toms latest video on this subject. I love the idea of flawless blocking, but as has tended to be the trend with MK11, it's most powerful in what are all the wrong ways. I basically think the way this mechanic is used at high level is pretty gross, it's pretty obvious it's another design nuance from NRS designed to crunch the skill gap and do as much as possible to reduce the impact of bad decision making. Here are my suggested fixes to the flawless block system to remove it's toxic aspects and reorient it to what it should be, a hype neutral/anti airing/MU knowledge based mechanic that emphasizes meter management a bit more.
 

xWildx

What a day. What a lovely day.
Just don’t let people flawless block out of recovery frames. This game has enough nuanced crap in it as it is.

Interactables cost defensive, armoring them cost defensive and 2 bars of offensive, rolling costs defensive, get up or flawless attacks cost one of each, enhancing specials cost offensive, some cost offensive and defensive, breakaway costs 2 defensive, cancels cost defensive, specials can’t come out after a flawless block, some things are punishable and some aren’t after a flawless block, these moves have a larger window for flawless block, these moves don’t have as large a window for flawless block, you can break away from this special move, not this special move, but in the middle of this special move....

Like jfc lol
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
Just don’t let people flawless block out of recovery frames. This game has enough nuanced crap in it as it is.

Interactables cost defensive, armoring them cost defensive and 2 bars of offensive, rolling costs defensive, get up or flawless attacks cost one of each, enhancing specials cost offensive, some cost offensive and defensive, breakaway costs 2 defensive, cancels cost defensive, specials can’t come out after a flawless block, some things are punishable and some aren’t after a flawless block, these moves have a larger window for flawless block, these moves don’t have as large a window for flawless block, you can break away from this special move, not this special move, but in the middle of this special move....

Like jfc lol
This. Mechanic just doesn't have enough rules to it.
 

DeftMonk

Warrior
The hit stun thing I agree with you, but the flawless block after recovery frames seems to be what they had it intended for (one of the things anyway). Mk11 kinda has a running theme of “choose how to take ur turn without getting bopped”.
 

NoCharge

Apprentice
When I first realised you can flawless block after being hit I couldn't believe it. It took me some time to realise it. I still can't believe it is in the game.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Just don’t let people flawless block out of recovery frames. This game has enough nuanced crap in it as it is.

Interactables cost defensive, armoring them cost defensive and 2 bars of offensive, rolling costs defensive, get up or flawless attacks cost one of each, enhancing specials cost offensive, some cost offensive and defensive, breakaway costs 2 defensive, cancels cost defensive, specials can’t come out after a flawless block, some things are punishable and some aren’t after a flawless block, these moves have a larger window for flawless block, these moves don’t have as large a window for flawless block, you can break away from this special move, not this special move, but in the middle of this special move....

Like jfc lol
The idea looked cool on paper, but it definitely brought their fair share of problems.
 

VELL1

Noob
I honestly don't see what the big deal.

People have been complaining how simple MK11 is, but once an extra layer of the game is found everyone just shits on it and want the game to be even simpler than it was.

At this point let's just make it a chess game, I take a turn, then you take a turn and so on...
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
I honestly don't see what the big deal.

People have been complaining how simple MK11 is, but once an extra layer of the game is found everyone just shits on it and want the game to be even simpler than it was.

At this point let's just make it a chess game, I take a turn, then you take a turn and so on...
I can answer this question actually and tell you why this is not the same thing.

The problem is, flawless blocking in it's current implementation is used to

A: Justify the games otherwise shallow and stripped down nature
B: Makes it so that frame data and conventionally advantageous situations really don't matter
C: Results in a meta game where there's no such thing as a bad decision according to frames or finally losing your turn

It's complexity and depth in the absolute wrong place for it to be in a fighting game while the rest of the game suffers for it.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
The hit stun thing I agree with you, but the flawless block after recovery frames seems to be what they had it intended for (one of the things anyway). Mk11 kinda has a running theme of “choose how to take ur turn without getting bopped”.
Do we have any proof that's what they intended it to be?

Even if you're right, which you may very well be, it just seems the majority does not like this and because a lot of the effectiveness of flawless blocking is OS based, it's not even a matter of decision making. A huge part of the game is just auto piloted for you. People don't like the effect this has on the game, especially since this dynamic seems to be preserved at the cost to the rest of the game.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
It’s about the game allowing you to take advantage of guaranteed situations, which it currently doesn’t.

People shit on DOA due to the same thing.
To be fair, DOA as definitive launch states, and DOA also has a system that SEVERELY punishes people for getting read on a hold attempt. Hold's have whiff animations and a part of the system specifically designed to blow them up for huge damage. MK11 doesn't.
 

DeftMonk

Warrior
I can answer this question actually and tell you why this is not the same thing.

The problem is, flawless blocking in it's current implementation is used to

A: Justify the games otherwise shallow and stripped down nature
B: Makes it so that frame data and conventionally advantageous situations really don't matter
C: Results in a meta game where there's no such thing as a bad decision according to frames or finally losing your turn

It's complexity and depth in the absolute wrong place for it to be in a fighting game while the rest of the game suffers for it.
I mean bro I totally agree with u but uve been playing mk11 long enough to know by now that’s the game in a nutshell “complexity and depth in all the wrong places”.
 

Obly

Ambiguous world creator
Agreed that the FLB mechanic needs to change. Not sure I totally agree on how it should be done. The goal should be to get rid of the ways it's being abused, but if you go too far, you end up stripping even more depth out of the game--turning it into a predictable, monotonous my turn, your turn, my turn, your turn...

So I don't love the approach of drastically restricting when FLB can be done; what I'd rather see is them tone down the reward for doing it and increasing the risk just a bit. Basically--it's supposed to be a defensive technique, so most of the reward should be defensive. In most situations, you shouldn't be able to use FLB to (re)start your own offense.

I don't have a set of ideas completely worked out, so there may be some issues here, but roughly:
-- Grounded opponents should be immune to u2, period; no more launching opponents for a combo just because you blocked a regular attack. But u2 should still work normally against jump-ins (FLB in the neutral or anti-meaty wakeup); the big reward off jump-ins should be balanced by the big risk of an u2.

-- Agreed that you should not be able to FLB while jailed; that's ridiculous. You got hit, you should have to hold some pressure. This is really unfair for characters who are dependent on certain buttons (for lack of better options) to start their offense. But after hit stun wears off, no extra "no FLB" penalty window after that. If you want guaranteed pressure, you need to land it during your hit advantage.

-- Otherwise, FLBs can happen in the same situations they do now. The main difference though--the most reward you get vs. a grounded opponent is an u3. You made the read, you spent the meter--you get to break the opponent's pressure, do some damage (can be made higher, maybe), and gain frame advantage. But that's it; you don't get a full combo or a knockdown.

That mostly just resets neutral, which is what a defensive option should do. A FLB u3 makes you plus, but now you have to play the same mind game as your opponent: Try to land a quick attack while they're jailed (safe but low reward if blocked), go for a slower hit (better chance of opening them up but maybe get FLBed in return), go for a throw, try to bait a whiff, etc.

Seems to me those simple changes get rid of the worst abuses and actually make the play/counterplay more interesting. There's still reward for doing them, but it's a small reward and you immediately have to decide again how to keep your turn, the opponent has counterplay options, etc. And this doesn't unfairly punish characters who have a ton of FLB gaps in their strings, the way the current system does.