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How The Input Bug Affected Skarlet, + Release check needs to go in MKX

Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist

We all know the input bug only affected jumping. Well, with Skarlet being the character with the smallest hitbox projectile, it made her air daggers pretty inconsistent to get out on the first frame. I know some of us were hoping that someone will get the daggers someday, but unfortunately it's not possible to get 100% consistent single frame iaD and single frame iaDD without a stick, nor a D-pad as far as I tested. The input bug will get in the way. Either you will do them too high, or you will trigger the input bug and ground daggers will come out instead, so it's a 2/5 chance of a 1 frame iaD .

I've tried dozens of times on the arcade stick, but because of the input bug, it's virtually impossible to get those daggers as consistently on the controller. Yes, it's worse.

Also, I really do hope NRS drops the release check system. I know IGAU had an option to turn it off, but the real question here is: why do we need them? IMO, everyone should be able to feel each input at the instant he pressed it, and recognize the timing for longer strings or combos. Release check generates negative edge because it saves pressed inputs for a short period of time.

I lost count of the number of times I tried to punish Kabal's F32, and Cyrax 12 string with D4 and a teleport came out instead, or the times I wanted to avoid a cross up with D3, and red dash came out instead.

I really hope NRS tests movement and I really really hope they drop the release check for good, and never look back, because it's annoying.

***Grammar Nazi'd by Cal-EL***
 
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aldazo

aldazo

Waiting for Havik
Eddy Wang said:
... i know IGAU had an option to turn it off...
Click to expand...
If it has the option to turn it off then I see no problem, the more options the better, some people may use it (i.e. those that came from a sf background), it's not like its implementation can divert significant resources.
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Cal-EL said:
Don't worry guys, I edited the title before Eldriken has a heart attack. I can't help you with the video though
Click to expand...
I type more than i speak, that is why my accent is not that good at all, i need to someone to talkm so i can improve my accent as well.
 
Braindead

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
Error said:
Just an "African" accent, was expecting a more luso accent. Brazilian accents while speaking English are the worst, I don't have the accent though :D
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Brazilian accents aren't that bad. You should hear Arabic accents while speaking English.

@Eddy Wang I think the problem with the 1-frame jumps is U4 move. Skarlet has an U4 move right? Or is it an U3?

I think if you hit a 1-frame jump the game won't count it to make it easier to input the U4 move. I don't think it's about the release check.
 
Rip Torn

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
Release check, input bug and 4-way inputs are all separate things that lead to the MK9 control issues. You're combining them all into one thing but that's neither here nor there. Injustice improved on a lot of that stuff by letting you turn off release check, use 8-way controls (Alternate) and input bug has been eliminated as far as I know. Hopefully they will carry those improvements over to MKX.
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Braindead said:
Brazilian accents aren't that bad. You should hear Arabic accents while speaking English.

@Eddy Wang I think the problem with the 1-frame jumps is U4 move. Skarlet has an U4 move right? Or is it an U3?

I think if you hit a 1-frame jump the game won't count it to make it easier to input the U4 move. I don't think it's about the release check.
Click to expand...
No, the input bug only affected jumping, you want to perform the projectile at the lowest point possible, which is 1 frame off the ground, but the input bug doesn't let you tap up to get the 1 frame room, using normals like U3, U4 would result in the same manner if you tap instead of holding up, the character will do a standing 3 or 4 because the input bug doesn't recognize the tap input for jump, you have to hold like for 2 frames to perform a jump.

This also has handicaped serious MU like Kabal who could do F23~ndc~d3... pressure or mix with 2 or his other options, if you try to jump out you're already two frames late even if you're supposed to get out of the ground at 1 frame, the gap within Ndc pressure for F23 NDC is 2 frames before any of his fastest attacks, yet kabal will catch you a the early jump, which in theory it shouldn't have been possible.

@Rip Torn
Release check records execution like a variable value, and use it a few frames later, in MK9 and IGAU you could use it on longer strings that was hard to get the timing on, or performing fast moves into projectiles that was hard to get the timing off (like kitana d1~lift), but in return it triggers other issues in the game, as you wanting perfoming normals on aproriate time, i don't mind if they use the 8 way directions instead of 4, but the release check HAS to go, most of the problems i see in both game is always due this, ppl crying (AHH, i did not want to teleport, it was a d3) or yet "WTF, it was D4 not bomb toss".

I really hope i'm overreacting here over release check, i don't have a good memory of what good does this mechanic has brought to both games at all.
 
Vulcan Hades

Vulcan Hades

Champion
What does negative edge have to do with the input bug?

I personally love negative edge in fighting games. I don't think the issue is the concept of negative edge it's how NRS handles it and the wack motions. When negative edge is done right it's supposed to be super helpful. But if I recall the way NRS does it saves the input for too long after you release the buttons and it causes annoying things to happen. They just need to make it a 1 frame NE window or something.

It's the window being too big combined with having only 4 directions + the fact that some characters have command normals that share inputs with special moves. For example you have a move that's db2 and a command normal that's b2. If you're crouch blocking and decide to go for b2 overhead your special can come out because of negative edge. But how is the game supposed to know which option you were going for? It could be either b2 or db2. But if the special move is d,db,b2 then it knows that if you don't press db you want the command normal.

tl;dr Negative edge mostly sucks in NRS games because of 4-directional inputs. I'm all for giving players the option to have it or not.
 
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TarkatanDentist

TarkatanDentist

Kombatant
Eddy Wang said:
I type more than i speak, that is why my accent is not that good at all, i need to someone to talkm so i can improve my accent as well.
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In my utterly useless opinion, I think your voice is awesome.

Good stuff with the video also. I'd be highly surprised if they don't give you the option to turn off release check in MKX, given that they provided that choice in Injustice.

That said, maybe characters like Kabal could do with a few more frames delay before they're allowed to perform an instant air projectile. Who knows, it might help the balance a little. :p (JK)
 
STRYKIE

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
To be honest this seems to be a common thing with the characters didn't much testing in MK9, most notably the DLC characters which Skarlet is of course one of them... (and a lot of Skarlet's most interesting tech were found through unexpected loopholes lol) You have to remember that the QA for NRS has improved tenfold since 2010 and I don't think the emphasis on negative edge will play a part in MKX.

On a side note, don't be too disheartened about your spoken English, at least you expressed your opinions in-depth with a video which is more than what could be said for some of our 'community leaders' who speak flawless English.

Cal-EL said:
Don't worry guys, I edited the title before Eldriken has a heart attack. I can't help you with the video though
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For some reason I have a feeling that it made more sense grammatically before you edited it. :16Bit


Vulcan Hades said:
What does negative edge have to do with the input bug?
Click to expand...
At first, I was thinking he had his terminology mixed up but, I think the input bug could've come into play for upward inputs aswell, there just isn't really a surefire way to test it since not everyone had a Up+normal input.

Something that's maybe trivial at the most I noticed in MK9 is that, if you hold the switch stance button, you cannot perform a neutral jump. (although even more odd is that, if you do and hold a manual command switch stance with 3+4, neutral jumping isn't affected...)
 
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Johnny2d

Johnny2d

Xbl: Johnny2Die
Good post Eddy, I've been working on testing Skarlet instant air daggers too, she can't just do them rapid fire the way other characters do them thats for sure.

I've been trying to find reliable ways to do them and feel like you've got to do something prior to doing the instant air dagger in order to avoid the input bug, you can d3, tap block, switch stance, then instant air dagger and they come out, however this means you don't get to rapid fire them. If you try to rapid fire them I guarantee after a few you will get ground dagger or njp.

I've got a video of me doing 11 in a row at point blank, then 11 in a at full screen, however, you have to do something between each one otherwise you get the bug for sure. I'll post the video when I get home.
 
Johnny2d

Johnny2d

Xbl: Johnny2Die
Good post Eddy, I've been working on testing Skarlet instant air daggers too, she can't just do them rapid fire the way other characters do them thats for sure.

I've been trying to find reliable ways to do them and feel like you've got to do something prior to doing the instant air dagger in order to avoid the input bug, you can d3, tap block, switch stance, then instant air dagger and they come out, however this means you don't get to rapid fire them. If you try to rapid fire them I guarantee after a few you will get ground dagger or njp.

I've got a video of me doing 11 in a row at point blank, then 11 in a row at full screen, however, you have to do something between each one otherwise you get the bug for sure. I'll post the video when I get home.
 
STB Sgt Reed

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
Ok, so I've never been quite clear...

What exactly is the "input bug"? I'm not sure it hindered me as much as people like to make it out

B/C ... it seems to me that I have WAAAAY more trouble putting in correct inputs in injustice than I ever had/or have with MK9. Like... I can't even freaking do BF inputs in injustice but I was a BF fool in mk (hello, yolo sub zero slides). So, could someone explain to me what the deal is?

Please? :)
 
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