How do I take advantage of pokes?

[Wireframe2]

I've been learning that you typically want to throw out safe normals to open up your opponent to the big combos, like Kung Lao's D3. Problem is, I can't seem to combo off them. The move either pushes my opponent too far away for my combo starter, or doesn't leave them stunned long enough.

How am I supposed to be using these pokes?

 

[Scott The Scot]

Pokes aren't comboable. On hit they leave you at plus frames to pressure your opponent though with blockstrings or specials.

 

[DrFolmer]

If your poke hits you should have plenty of hit advantage to beat their counter poke with some of your launching normals or strings that lead to combos. If they decide to block after getting hit, you will get some pressure which often leads to 50/50's. If they block your poke, you're typically at a disadvantage, so you are better off blocking. If he blocks your poke and you try to poke back right after he will win if he decides to the the same.

Pokes are used to check your opponent and sometimes they can interrupt pressure if the poke is fast enough. As Kotal Kahn I will often use 114 into airgrab and then procede to check my opponents with d1 to see if they respect the +frames. Sometimes people don't respect the airgrab and they will try to poke me out of my following strings (mostly because my frametrapping is shit online).

They probably have more use but that's basically how I use them, but I'm still a scrub so I don't know everything.

 

[Ray'sGoodLiquor]

Pokes aren't comboable. On hit they leave you at plus frames to pressure your opponent though with blockstrings or specials.

You can cancel pokes into specials though, even though they don't combo, and for some characters, that's a major mechanic. D4xxHell Sparks is one of the most vital tools in Shinnok's arsenal, even though landing the D4 doesn't guarantee Hell Sparks hitting. The biggest thing with poking is knowing your opponents strings, which will give you the window to land a normal and continue pressure.

 

[Scott The Scot]

You can cancel pokes into specials though, even though they don't combo, and for some characters, that's a major mechanic. D4xxHell Sparks is one of the most vital tools in Shinnok's arsenal, even though landing the D4 doesn't guarantee Hell Sparks hitting. The biggest thing with poking is knowing your opponents strings, which will give you the window to land a normal and continue pressure.

Very true but pokes don't jail into specials on block so there is a gap that can be backdashed or amoured through so you have to be careful.

 

[Ray'sGoodLiquor]

Very true but pokes don't jail into specials on block so there is a gap that can be backdashed or amoured through so you have to be careful.

Very very true. In all honesty though, I'm not seeing the skill level throughout the general population to punish it though for Shinnok at least. Some pokes are worse than others. I'd wager that not everyone can punish D4xxsparks in the gap. I think it's easier to punish off 3rd hit, and the window is fairly tight for most.

I.E. Its a bigger deal when your pokes low profile. Cough cough Dvorrah cough cough

 

[Scott The Scot]

Very very true. In all honesty though, I'm not seeing the skill level throughout the general population to punish it though for Shinnok at least. Some pokes are worse than others. I'd wager that not everyone can punish D4xxsparks in the gap. I think it's easier to punish off 3rd hit, and the window is fairly tight for most.

I.E. Its a bigger deal when your pokes low profile. Cough cough Dvorrah cough cough

Yeah if it's Shinnoks D4 at max range then most armoured reversal specials probably won't hit. Reptile or Sub Zero could do it. At point blank range I'm not sure if D4 pushes back enough for Cassies flip to punish. So if you an advancing armoured special then you can probably punish it. Still a good tool though. I haven't labbed Shinnok yet so take my word with a grain of salt. D4~Sparks Seems like a viable tool to me though!

 

[Ray'sGoodLiquor]

At point blank range I'm not sure if D4 pushes back enough for Cassies flip to punish. So if you an advancing armoured special then you can probably punish it. Still a good tool though. I haven't labbed Shinnok yet so take my word with a grain of salt. D4~Sparks Seems like a viable tool to me though!

D4 has a lot of pushback. Enough to guarantee a 3rd hit on HS even on block. Even with d4's frame data on block, it's really hard to punish due to pushback. I haven't labbed it in forever, but I recall Reptiles EX slide punishing it, but not much more. Can verify for sure that Raiden can't punish it.

 

[Scott The Scot]

D4 has a lot of pushback. Enough to guarantee a 3rd hit on HS even on block. Even with d4's frame data on block, it's really hard to punish due to pushback. I haven't labbed it in forever, but I recall Reptiles EX slide punishing it, but not much more. Can verify for sure that Raiden can't punish it.

I'll go on MKX now and lab who can punish it and get back to you.

 

[Scott The Scot]

@RaysGoodLiquor I was using the PC version so I had to quickly unlock Shinnok but I went to practice and D4~Hellsparks JAIL!!! That's dumb if he's the only character that can do it. I need to test if other people can jail specials from D4. Hopefully it's a PC bug.

Edit: Other characters can jail specials from D4 if it's fast enough. This is new information to me. There is no gap between D4~Sparks with Shinnok, feel free to abuse that lol

 

[Wireframe2]

So, if I'm understanding it right, you use pokes to try to gain enough hit advantage to start a string and combo off of that?

 

[StealthyMuffin]

So, if I'm understanding it right, you use pokes to try to gain enough hit advantage to start a string and combo off of that?

It won't actually combo, but yes. They can't do anything except block after getting hit by a poke. If they try anything other than blocking, then they'll get hit.

 

[Arzumis]

So, if I'm understanding it right, you use pokes to try to gain enough hit advantage to start a string and combo off of that?

No. You cannot combo from pokes. When you land a poke, you are at frame advantage.

 

[tatterbug4]

So, if I'm understanding it right, you use pokes to try to gain enough hit advantage to start a string and combo off of that?

By successfully getting a poke it puts you at advantage. Depending on how much hit advantage the move you used had.

For example. Landing Dvorah's d4 is like plus 21? I belive. Granting you a free 50/50 (if your close) or free pressure

 

[ATIWAB]

@RaysGoodLiquor I was using the PC version so I had to quickly unlock Shinnok but I went to practice and D4~Hellsparks JAIL!!! That's dumb if he's the only character that can do it. I need to test if other people can jail specials from D4. Hopefully it's a PC bug.

Edit: Other characters can jail specials from D4 if it's fast enough. This is new information to me. There is no gap between D4~Sparks with Shinnok, feel free to abuse that lol

Jax can do similar with a low poke special canceled into an immediate Gotcha Grab because his D1 is technically part of the D1D2 crouch-walk-punch string he has. Not much range on it, though.

 

[Braindead]

D4 xx Hell sparks is not interruptible.

And before you all start bitching about that, he needs it. Especially in Impostor and Necromancer.

 

[HuttonMD]

D4 xx Hell sparks is not interruptible.

And before you all start bitching about that, he needs it. Especially in Impostor and Necromancer.

Why does he need it? I'm just curious why those two variations need it