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Hit the wall with the Joker. SF4-Ryu bad habits killing me.

A

aweigh01

Noob
On-topic with thread title:

I've been maining the Joker since day 1 and I love using him but I'm getting decimated online and it all boils down to... goddamn thumb fatigue! Well, not exactly just thumb fatigue, but just "execution" fatigue. Match-ups with strong zoners are quite a struggle with our character of choice and it is just exhausting playing the dance-of-spam over and over again. (Ironically, the most hard-core zoning I've ever received was from another Joker, heh. That was eye-opening for me as it truly illustrates his limited mobility).

He's not a bad character at all: he has the best d1 in the entire roster, and he also has the best j3 and the third or second best j1; his BNB combo is pretty easy to do consistently and does 42-45% guaranteed as well as almost fully moving the oppenent into the corner.

Anyway, I tried practicing the teeth loops and I just can't do it. I do j2 into the standard 32xxMBRLG then b3->d2xxFarTeeth->j2 and that's where I ALWAYS whiff the j2 and the setup is broken. I honestly cannot figure this out. I can do d2xxFarTeeth in my sleep with my eyes closed and my hands tied behind my back: that part isn't the problem.

Online matches: I've noticed my bad habits from using Ryu are killing me online. You see, in SF4 you ALWAYS have to hold down down-back, you can't just block by holding down; anyway I rely a lot on Ryu's crouching LP, which fortunately I can also do with the Joker! His d1 is basically as good as Ryu's LP and that's awesome, but unlike SF or Ryu, the joker's frame data is atrocious. I can't think of anything reliable to do after stuffing an opponent with d1 in a close quarters position or neutral position. I go d1, maybe d1 again out of bad habit/mashing, then my brain goes blank and I do something stupid like trying a crossup because I suddenly remember I don't have a shoryuken I can cancel that d1 into...

What do you guys do to pull off the teeth loop? I've probably watched that video tutorial posted a few days ago, the one that has the really informative text and is done against a practice room Batman like a million times but I can't pull it off. It seems like I'm missing something crucial, like when people discovered the best way to do d2xxFarTeeth is by doing it down-forward 2; some detail like that.

PS: Superman's air laser is ridiculous. Another SF4 bad habit killing me: i.e. I'm conditioned to jump projectiles. That's how it's done in SF4; not so here. Every time I try the dance-of-spam by jumping instead of climbing the mountain (that's how it feels getting back into neutral space) I get punished hard-core.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
aweigh01 said:
On-topic with thread title:

I've been maining the Joker since day 1 and I love using him but I'm getting decimated online and it all boils down to... goddamn thumb fatigue! Well, not exactly just thumb fatigue, but just "execution" fatigue. Match-ups with strong zoners are quite a struggle with our character of choice and it is just exhausting playing the dance-of-spam over and over again. (Ironically, the most hard-core zoning I've ever received was from another Joker, heh. That was eye-opening for me as it truly illustrates his limited mobility).

He's not a bad character at all: he has the best d1 in the entire roster, and he also has the best j3 and the third or second best j1; his BNB combo is pretty easy to do consistently and does 42-45% guaranteed as well as almost fully moving the oppenent into the corner.

Anyway, I tried practicing the teeth loops and I just can't do it. I do j2 into the standard 32xxMBRLG then b3->d2xxFarTeeth->j2 and that's where I ALWAYS whiff the j2 and the setup is broken. I honestly cannot figure this out. I can do d2xxFarTeeth in my sleep with my eyes closed and my hands tied behind my back: that part isn't the problem.

Online matches: I've noticed my bad habits from using Ryu are killing me online. You see, in SF4 you ALWAYS have to hold down down-back, you can't just block by holding down; anyway I rely a lot on Ryu's crouching LP, which fortunately I can also do with the Joker! His d1 is basically as good as Ryu's LP and that's awesome, but unlike SF or Ryu, the joker's frame data is atrocious. I can't think of anything reliable to do after stuffing an opponent with d1 in a close quarters position or neutral position. I go d1, maybe d1 again out of bad habit/mashing, then my brain goes blank and I do something stupid like trying a crossup because I suddenly remember I don't have a shoryuken I can cancel that d1 into...

What do you guys do to pull off the teeth loop? I've probably watched that video tutorial posted a few days ago, the one that has the really informative text and is done against a practice room Batman like a million times but I can't pull it off. It seems like I'm missing something crucial, like when people discovered the best way to do d2xxFarTeeth is by doing it down-forward 2; some detail like that.

PS: Superman's air laser is ridiculous. Another SF4 bad habit killing me: i.e. I'm conditioned to jump projectiles. That's how it's done in SF4; not so here. Every time I try the dance-of-spam by jumping instead of climbing the mountain (that's how it feels getting back into neutral space) I get punished hard-core.
Click to expand...
He's not a good character, he's bottom 2.

He doesn't have the best J3, J1 or even D1.

His D1 must be respected vs most chars since its +1 on block, when they respect that, do B1 flower to keep them away.

D1 flower is very good and so is D1 teeth, if they try to punish you, they get launched and you get a combo into gunshot worst case scenario

why would you ever do lp lp shoryuken? more like tatsu
 
Gilbagz

Gilbagz

Joker here~
aweigh01 said:
On-topic with thread title:

I've been maining the Joker since day 1 and I love using him but I'm getting decimated online and it all boils down to... goddamn thumb fatigue! Well, not exactly just thumb fatigue, but just "execution" fatigue. Match-ups with strong zoners are quite a struggle with our character of choice and it is just exhausting playing the dance-of-spam over and over again. (Ironically, the most hard-core zoning I've ever received was from another Joker, heh. That was eye-opening for me as it truly illustrates his limited mobility).

He's not a bad character at all: he has the best d1 in the entire roster, and he also has the best j3 and the third or second best j1; his BNB combo is pretty easy to do consistently and does 42-45% guaranteed as well as almost fully moving the oppenent into the corner.

Anyway, I tried practicing the teeth loops and I just can't do it. I do j2 into the standard 32xxMBRLG then b3->d2xxFarTeeth->j2 and that's where I ALWAYS whiff the j2 and the setup is broken. I honestly cannot figure this out. I can do d2xxFarTeeth in my sleep with my eyes closed and my hands tied behind my back: that part isn't the problem.

Online matches: I've noticed my bad habits from using Ryu are killing me online. You see, in SF4 you ALWAYS have to hold down down-back, you can't just block by holding down; anyway I rely a lot on Ryu's crouching LP, which fortunately I can also do with the Joker! His d1 is basically as good as Ryu's LP and that's awesome, but unlike SF or Ryu, the joker's frame data is atrocious. I can't think of anything reliable to do after stuffing an opponent with d1 in a close quarters position or neutral position. I go d1, maybe d1 again out of bad habit/mashing, then my brain goes blank and I do something stupid like trying a crossup because I suddenly remember I don't have a shoryuken I can cancel that d1 into...

What do you guys do to pull off the teeth loop? I've probably watched that video tutorial posted a few days ago, the one that has the really informative text and is done against a practice room Batman like a million times but I can't pull it off. It seems like I'm missing something crucial, like when people discovered the best way to do d2xxFarTeeth is by doing it down-forward 2; some detail like that.

PS: Superman's air laser is ridiculous. Another SF4 bad habit killing me: i.e. I'm conditioned to jump projectiles. That's how it's done in SF4; not so here. Every time I try the dance-of-spam by jumping instead of climbing the mountain (that's how it feels getting back into neutral space) I get punished hard-core.
Click to expand...
For the d2 teeth j2 combo, its literally just practice. I was dropping constantly for like 2 weeks. Only clicked like a few days ago where I can hit it 95% of the time.
Eventually you muscle memory the timing. After doing d2 far teeth, I hold uf and time in my head when the jump comes out. You can watch the animation if it makes it easier, but yeah it lies on knowing when the jump comes out so you can hit the 2 at the earliest frame.

Some other stuff though. The window to hit d2 is pretty big. As long as you don't hit them super close to the ground the j2 should link. However what i've noticed sometimes is if you hit the d2 too early, they are knocked high but far back because of when you hit the d2. This makes it harder to link the j2 at times.

Hope it helps.
Just practice and good luck.

Also d1 is +16 on hit. I've been training myself to confirm d1's on hit and then to cross over. If you time your j2 correctly it is a safe jump. I've been able to stuff a lot of anti airs when my timing is on. This probably would not work on someone with an aquaman anti air though. You can insta j3 to make them respect that which opens up the j2 option if you feel the timing is too strict.
On block I just confirm d1 into another d1 with nightwing style d1 pressure. Once they respect that it opens up my pressure game with 2,1 and cross overs.

As for Joker having the best d1. It is good, top 10 but not the best.
His j3 is great and is up there but there are ones that you could say are equal.
His j1 is decent but loses out to body splash j1's, i.e. green lantern, harley quinn and scorpion's for example
I rekon he has the best j2 in the game. The hit box on it is ridiculous, easiest move to cross up with and it is fairly fast at 8f. There are only a few j2's which rival it imo, e.g. Shazam, Batman and maybe Black Adam.
 
Comrade_Aleksey

Comrade_Aleksey

Noob
D1 is really about +16 on hit so best thing to follow with is 2,1... After d1 hits u have guaranteed 2,1 and then 2 possible ways: if it hits u know what to do, on block imo best pressure tool is to finish string (2,1,2) and cancel it into far teeth for pushblock trap!
 
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