Tech - Hellfire Hellfire anti wake up options.

[Scoot Magee]

I think this stuff is pretty good. There's probably more setups but I think this is pretty solid. I also want to note that I tried this stuff on kung lao, Sub Zero and Johnny Cage. I don't have time to test it vs all the wake ups but so far it works consistently on everything I tried it against.

These setups are pretty specific so I'm not sure how useful they really are. These are also just example video's, you can do a lot more than just 114 or d1 after the knockdown from 123 or b32.

I was inspired to mess around and find this stuff by @JINAMOUNAINAI and @Xzyj

@Slips

@JTB123

@Eddy Wang

@Mitsuownes

@Ze Dingo

@Matix218

@STRYKIE

@YOMI RM JagoBlake

 

[Slips]

I've looked into this but never found a practical use for it. The best time to use it would be after a combo where flame aura is activated at the end of it. Problem for me is the standing reset is always better than a knockdown. I guess you can use it to bait out armor to get them to waste meter but then they can just delay getup and now you're at disadvantage. So I'm sacrificing guaranteed damage and mixups for a hard read setup. It's not bad but it's not optimal in my eyes.

I have looked into stuffing wakeups with the flames after the standing reset and you knock them down with f2, but by that time the flames hit at a various rate and I couldn't get them to stuff faster armor consistently.

I'm all ears if someone can find something consistent after a f2 while flame aura has been activated.

 

[Scoot Magee]

I've looked into this but never found a practical use for it. The best time to use it would be after a combo where flame aura is activated at the end of it. Problem for me is the standing reset is always better than a knockdown. I guess you can use it to bait out armor to get them to waste meter but then they can just delay getup and now you're at disadvantage. So I'm sacrificing guaranteed damage and mixups for a hard read setup. It's not bad but it's not optimal in my eyes.

I have looked into stuffing wakeups with the flames after the standing reset and you knock them down with f2, but by that time the flames hit at a various rate and I couldn't get them to stuff faster armor consistently.

I'm all ears if someone can find something consistent after a f2 while flame aura has been activated.

Yeah its extremely hard to get anything to work consistently while standing. I agree that you really get more from the standing reset so it makes this somewhat useless. It can maybe lead to the discovery of something more useful though.

 

[Matix218]

Thanks for posting this Scoot. I wonder if there is a situation where going for a knockdown/wakeup armor break setup would be better than going for the standing +18 plus pressure/mixup. Im sure this could be very useful if applied in the right situation

 

[Ze Dingo]

The problem for me with this is, you can't rely on the aura ticks because you don't know exactly when they do.

Also, the standing reset ender gives you a lot more options than Hellfire Scorpion's oki game.

 

[Xzyj]

i think the main strength of that stuff is - look at the scorpion at the end of this setup, this shit LOOKS LIKE HE DROPPED HIS COMBO, so it's a very cool gimmick vs someone who's unfamiliar with that setup as they might think wakeup is the best option since you're confused and will try to go for continuation after raging at your dropped combo. But yea, delayed wake might shit over that unfortunately.

Gonna definitely add this to my gimmick list tho, along with 114~tele, b12~spear, crossover jump1 *delay* b3 fbc = new combo
and b1 fbc after FA for those who loves to mash pokes after FA in case you drop the link

 

[Xzyj]

Messed a bit in the lab and found a couple of F2 anti armor setups, they are not 100% guaranteed (because standing 1 on hit is +11 and on block it's +2 and they can armor out after it/backdash, after a blocked one they can even full combo you but it's a hard read scenario).
It might catch them offguard for a couple of times, and then you can mind game this into doing full 114 string and hitconfirm it into tele if hits.

And if they start to respect your overhead, oh boy, you know what to do next.
Kreygasm


Edited: some of the characters can't backdash after 11~tele 1 - f2 setup, because they moving back slow enough for f2 reaches to them and you can still break armor afterwards. Haven't tested on a lot of characters, but it catches Lao's backdash, but can't catch Subzero's, so presumably everything that's considered as average backdash can be caught by 1 - f2

Edited2: Found another pretty cool setup:

 

[Eddy Wang]

I practiced this setup a lot, the instant i went for it on a tournament setting didn't work out, so i never used again. ever since.

 

[Xzyj]

I practiced this setup a lot, the instant i went for it on a tournament setting didn't work out, so i never used again. ever since.

sorry to hear Eddy, but i think you misstimed your hit a little bit and it went off right before your flame hit him so the flame broke the armor but didn't give you any results.

Edited: Watched it in super slowmotion - looks like your opponent just stood up without any wakeup, and then pressed armored attack, that's why it didn't broke his armor - your flames hit him when he wasn't armored.

 

[God Confirm]

So I'm sacrificing guaranteed damage and mixups for a hard read setup. It's not bad but it's not optimal in my eyes.

I fully agree, in fact it's even worse that, once your opponent knows the set up or even suspects it, your play becomes highly telegraphed with this unless you do it every time, taking a massive hit to the efficiency of the character as a whole for some armor breaking set ups. May as well play LK.

 

[Eddy Wang]

sorry to hear Eddy, but i think you misstimed your hit a little bit and it went off right before your flame hit him so the flame broke the armor but didn't give you any results.

Edited: Watched it in super slowmotion - looks like your opponent just stood up without any wakeup, and then pressed armored attack, that's why it didn't broke his armor - your flames hit him when he wasn't armored.

One more reason to not get to confident on it, go for all the trouble to break armor, and the risk is not on your favor due the DWU, regular stand into armor etc etc.

Standing reset is far better though.

 

[Xzyj]

One more reason to not get to confident on it, go for all the trouble to break armor, and the risk is not on your favor due the DWU, regular stand into armor etc etc.

Standing reset is far better though.

i wouldn't say that standing reset is far better, it's better in terms of stability, guaranteed chip damage, meter building ect, but i feel like scorpion should abuse as much gimmicks as he can, just to force your opponent to do mistakes. Whenever i pressure my opponent after standing reset i feel that i'm playing guessing game as much as my opponent - will he try to poke out from my 21? will he backdash after my string? will he use armor?

So after some time i found myself doing a lot of 21 cancels, b1 cancels, so my opponent can't really react after seeing the full strings of pressure, because i'm just not doing those, and i can do my pressure more safely (but that means i'm doing less chip damage and building less meter too), 21 fbc - throw works amazingly btw.

I think adding different anti armor techs here and there, doing mid-combo gimmicks that start new combo and doing a couple of b12 cancels in a row can add a lot to your game.


Btw! played some games vs my buddy Kung Lao just a bit ago, and used 1 into f2 a couple of times after standing reset, broke his armor like 3 times in our games, seems to work perfectly, but you have to do it right on time too, no delaying, no dropping, and you'll get armor break ez. After some games he started to fuzzyguard and occasionally block high after standing resets, and that opened up possibility of delayed b3 fbc combos and standing 1 into b3 fbc combos, felt amazing.

 

[Scoot Magee]

The problem for me with this is, you can't rely on the aura ticks because you don't know exactly when they do.

Also, the standing reset ender gives you a lot more options than Hellfire Scorpion's oki game.

Well the issue with this setup is not the aura ticks. This setup will make it so that the aura tick will happen as they're getting up with little room for the timing to vary. You can end any combo with f4 flame aura 123 and the tick will work pretty much every time on their wake up.

I will agree that the setup is made redundant because of the ability to use the teleport as a standing reset. It makes this more of a gimmick than anything.

My goal with this thread is to try to explore the options we have to maybe find a more useful guaranteed armor killing setup. Most other setups are inconsistent due to the complex and varied timing off of his fireball cancels. If we can find more easy setups that don't have much room for the timing to vary, preferably off of the standing reset that would be great.

 

[Scoot Magee]

This is why I didn't put breakthrough in the title lol. I encourage people to mess with this and try to find something more useful.

 

[Ze Dingo]

I play Ninj, never had a problem with shredding armour when I wanted to

 

[Scoot Magee]

Another guaranteed setup for a flame aura tick is f4 xx flame aura 11 xx teleport delayed b121. After the b121 the flame aura will tick and beat any armor if you use d1. B121 is -1 so a lot of characters have to respect d1 after b121 regardless but if they try to armor it will be beaten by d1. This only works on advancing armor.

I'm just really trying to zero in on a legit setup where the timing is easy to get down. The above setup is extremely consistent and is not hard to do repeatedly. It's not super useful but I'm trying to get a consistent armor killing setup after teleport into a string.

 

[JTB123]

There is a legit setup for this, I found this a few weeks ago and I really should have posted it then as the more I think about this I think it could actually be better than his restand in the long run but I'm still not sure. Using this as your go to BnB is a pretty big change to the way Scorpion is usually played so I guess it will take some time to adapt to.

Anyway, I made a video to showcase it. One slight amendment is that I say it will break any armoured wakeup which it doesn't, Punch Walk gives no fucks about this lol and you will need to use B3 or B1 to stuff wake up EX low drill from Tanya as that crushes Scorps highs.

 

[JINAMOUNAINAI]

http://testyourmight.com/threads/hellraiser-tech-blowing-up-armor-on-reversals-and-wake-ups-all-setups.57314/#post-1963977
This was my complete guide on this tech i made a couple weeks ago, i have some good setups for wake ups only on part 3 if you wanna check out wake ups specifically, the setups i use are after spear combos since to restand them after spear means a weak combo, and after 50/50 with f2 and then create the tech, anw check it out if you are interested

 

[EMPR_MURK]

Nerf this character

 

[Ze Dingo]

Nerf this character

Just as soon as Liu Kang is removed from the game