General/Other Green Arrow "Big Patch" Changes Wishlist and Discussion

[Zatoichi]

So NRS is currently working on a big character patch and it seems like they're taking their time with it. While we're all waiting for that patch, how about we discuss what types of changes Good Ol Ollie might/could/should have.

This is my buff wish list for my main since day one:

• 1. Slightly Decrease Recovery on Load Arrow(Ice, Fire and Electric)
• 2. Lower Green Arrow's hurbox while shooting low arrows.
• 3. Decrease Start up of both normal and MB Up Haven Blast
• 4. Increase the hitbox of normal and MB Up Haven Blast.
• 5. Increase float time of airborne opponents hit by an electric arrow.
• 6. Less recovery frames on Stinger.

Changes 2 and 3 would fix the problem of Up Haven Blast whiffing on certain characters after b2. This would also increase Green Arrow's combo ability as this buff and the start up buff would allow Green arrow to do a b2/f2d1 xx MB Up Haven Blast(Both arrows connect) dash forward, 223, hurricane bow. Change 6 would make certain juggle combos that include electric arrow more reliable.

 

[Sha]

This all seems reasonable & fairly similar to my pre patch hopes.

 

[7L]

• 1. Slightly Decrease Recovery on Load Arrow(Ice, Fire and Electric)
• 2. Lower Green Arrow's hurbox while shooting low arrows.
• 3. Decrease Start up of both normal and MB Up Haven Blast
• 4. Increase the hitbox of normal and MB Up Haven Blast.
• 5. Increase float time of airborne opponents hit by an electric arrow.
• 6. Less recovery frames on Stinger.

Uhh.
1. No -_- he's fine. As Scoot Magee said before, you should have no problem loading an arrow. He shouldn't be able to load an arrow for free anyway.
2. YES YES YES YES YES. This is my biggest thing. Then he can actually ZONE
3. I do agree with this one! It's quite slow so the only real use is for corner combo's at the moment.
4. No...I'm sorry but this can't work. If the hitbox is increased, the infinite(s) against some characters will return because there are some options that he has which make you unable to duck and cause you to get hit by this which were taken out, if this is made, he will get these options back.
5. It's a good amount. It's the same hit stun on a grounded opponent. If they are to change this, would it also make the grounded stun time increased? Because I think that it should. From what I've seen, an electric arrow and normal standing arrow on hit are the same amount of block stun, due to the opponent backing up from the hit stun on elect arrow makes it seem like it takes more time to recover, but it is actually the same. I've tested it out.
6. Sure why not. Can we make it -4 Ed boon? And also go into combo.....nah all trollin' aside, that would be nice but it can't be decreased too much, so in the long run, it's still going to be punishable and playing at a high level, anything that's punishable will be taken advantage of by the opponent so this wouldn't do too much.
The only thing that I would like would be normal arrows doing 2% (opposed from 1% now), Zoning because a hazard when you only get 2 elect/3 fire arrows then you get to have your handy dandy 1% arrows so the opponent can laugh while you put arrows to his knees.
That's all from me. But #2 on your list is hugeeeee. Please Ed, please!

 

[Sha]

"1. No -_- he's fine. As @Scoot Magee said before, you should have no problem loading an arrow. He shouldn't be able to load an arrow for free anyway."
Yo I'm sorry, but GA was my first main & sadly this is a huge part of why I only play him casually now. He is not saying make loading arrows completely safe. No he said, "slighty less recovery" that's very reasonable considering all the traits in this game. If I may also add making his regular arrow do 3-4% damage. This will in no way break the character, but at the end of a round when someone has a sliver of life. I won't have to shoot five freaking arrows.

 

[ando1184]

" If I may also add making his regular arrow do 3-4% damage. This will in no way break the character, but at the end of a round when someone has a sliver of life. I won't have to shoot five freaking arrows.

Neutral arrows having 3-4% might be too much, maybe 2% will do but they NEED to increase his chip on fire and electric. They only do .7% and the average character does over 1.5 chip off of projectiles in this game and more if MB'd.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Arrow load speed is no ga's problem. Sometimes you might have to take damage but in most cases there's a safe way to load them.

 

[Scoot Magee]

lol how amazing would it be to get multiple ice arrows on load? Or even be able to stack ice arrows with multiple loads. god damn

 

[yaoding09]

lol how amazing would it be to get multiple ice arrows on load? Or even be able to stack ice arrows with multiple loads. god damn

YES YES YES!!

 

[thecrux]

wishlist: 1. make the stinger not punishable at all - it actually deserves to be unpunishable when compared to killer frost slide which starts a combo midscreen 2. increase the chip damage of either the fire arrow or the electric arrow, reason being there is no actual reason for GA's chip damage on his projectiles to be that low, he can only spam three or two at a time before having to reload it seems to me that they sld rather be more chip than ordinary projectiles because ordinary projectiles do no need to reload. it wld be also useful to make the electric arrow have a good amount of chip due to the fact that its lacking use, fair enough it has better arc overhead but in a zoning battles the trade is too low as other characters have mainly 7 to 8 percent damage on their projectiles without having to reload and there is only two at a time before reloading. 3. fix the hitbox of GA so when hes ducking and shooting a low arrow his hit box cannot be hit by high attacks and projectile, this is a big problem as it will definitely make a difference to zoning matchups.

 

[7L]

lol how amazing would it be to get multiple ice arrows on load? Or even be able to stack ice arrows with multiple loads. god damn

Lololol batgirl would crap bricks, trade ice arrows for days with that 8 frame d1.


If they make it possible to load multiple ice/elect/fire arrows, I may cry from laughter...but LBSH, Ed wants this character nerfed into the ground.

 

[Zatoichi]

• 4. Increase the hitbox of normal and MB Up Haven Blast.
• 5. Increase float time of airborne opponents hit by an electric arrow.

4. No...I'm sorry but this can't work. If the hitbox is increased, the infinite(s) against some characters will return because there are some options that he has which make you unable to duck and cause you to get hit by this which were taken out, if this is made, he will get these options back.
5. It's a good amount. It's the same hit stun on a grounded opponent. If they are to change this, would it also make the grounded stun time increased? Because I think that it should. From what I've seen, an electric arrow and normal standing arrow on hit are the same amount of block stun, due to the opponent backing up from the hit stun on elect arrow makes it seem like it takes more time to recover, but it is actually the same. I've tested it out.

4. How about just increasing the hitbox of the second explosive arrow then? That way it would be possible to do this combo midscreen:
b2, MB Up Haven Blast, dash forward, 223, hurricane bow. Without the b2 it's 33% damage, it may be 37%/38% with the b2. I'm just trying to increase Green Arrows combo options.

5. I didn't realize that Electric and normal arrows had the same hitstun. Hmmm would it be too much to ask for more hitstun on Electric arrows? Maybe enough so Green Arrow can follow up with an attack? Nothing crazy like a b/f3, or a jump in attack, or an ice arrow but just a dash in and combo string.

 

[7L]

4. How about just increasing the hitbox of the second explosive arrow then? That way it would be possible to do this combo midscreen:
b2, MB Up Haven Blast, dash forward, 223, hurricane bow. Without the b2 it's 33% damage, it may be 37%/38% with the b2. I'm just trying to increase Green Arrows combo options.

5. I didn't realize that Electric and normal arrows had the same hitstun. Hmmm would it be too much to ask for more hitstun on Electric arrows? Maybe enough so Green Arrow can follow up with an attack? Nothing crazy like a b/f3, or a jump in attack, or an ice arrow but just a dash in and combo string.

I don't think they intended for the elect arrow to be used for hit stun, I think it was for juggle combos like on 113 elect arrow, b3. Also the elect arrow is one of the fastest projectiles in the game, when i play SwiftTomHanks and I have the life lead on sinestro, I like to sit full screen with an elect arrow pulled and just wait for him to make a move because if he tries to shackle, piano drop or straight fireball, I can get a guaranteed hit.

 

[Sha]

I'm still new here so I don't how to quote posts, but this is @ando. Is 3-4% really too much when we have characters like Superman who get like 15% projectiles. Please don't take these as complaints, but even Harley Quinn can use her guns all day for free. On your comment I don't feel the chip on the electric arrow should increase because of all it's properties. Maybe fire arrow would actually be nice to do a bit more chip considering it's only a hard knockdown.

 

[Jimmypotato]

I'm still new here so I don't how to quote posts, but this is @ando. Is 3-4% really too much when we have characters like Superman who get like 15% projectiles. Please don't take these as complaints, but even Harley Quinn can use her guns all day for free. On your comment I don't feel the chip on the electric arrow should increase because of all it's properties. Maybe fire arrow would actually be nice to do a bit more chip considering it's only a hard knockdown.

just click reply to quote

 

[Sha]

just click reply to quote

Wow I'm smart thanks man.

 

[cpmd4]

I'm still new here so I don't how to quote posts, but this is @ando. Is 3-4% really too much when we have characters like Superman who get like 15% projectiles. Please don't take these as complaints, but even Harley Quinn can use her guns all day for free. On your comment I don't feel the chip on the electric arrow should increase because of all it's properties. Maybe fire arrow would actually be nice to do a bit more chip considering it's only a hard knockdown.

Supes has a lot more recovery on his projectiles, and they are slower and have slower start-up. GA's arrows can also be shot low or high, while Harley for example can't even get chip if you duck (and she moves forward when shooting so she can't actually do them all day). Projectiles aren't all about damage remember, so they aren't all made the same!

Aren't GA's arrows pretty plus on hit/block? I thought the point of them was the plus frames.

 

[Jimmypotato]

Supes has a lot more recovery on his projectiles, and they are slower and have slower start-up. GA's arrows can also be shot low or high, while Harley for example can't even get chip if you duck (and she moves forward when shooting so she can't actually do them all day). Projectiles aren't all about damage remember, so they aren't all made the same!

Aren't GA's arrows pretty plus on hit/block? I thought the point of them was the plus frames.

While Im unqualified now to comment on Arrows projectiles,

Supes are not really slow, DB3 recovers hella quick, just has a kinda slow start up, but when the lazer hits the screen it travels it at 900 miles an hour and the move builds hella meter, that meter is then used to keep supers safe because he just MBurns his air lazer for a second hit that tracks you anywhere on the screen, it also does hella chip.

 

[cpmd4]

While Im unqualified now to comment on Arrows projectiles,

Supes are not really slow, DB3 recovers hella quick, just has a kinda slow start up, but when the lazer hits the screen it travels it at 900 miles an hour and the move builds hella meter, that meter is then used to keep supers safe because he just MBurns his air lazer for a second hit that tracks you anywhere on the screen, it also does hella chip.

I agree with a lot of what you say here (aside from kinda slow start-up, I can interrupt that all day with Harley ). Though the intent of my post was to point out that you can't simply say that Superman gets 15% and Arrow gets 1% and assume there's a massive imbalance there. Projectiles are different in ways aside from damage.

I would also like to make a disclaimer that I have no real objection to Arrow getting a few more percent on his trait, and I'm not really at liberty to say whether it would be an appropriate change.

 

[Sha]

Supes has a lot more recovery on his projectiles, and they are slower and have slower start-up. GA's arrows can also be shot low or high, while Harley for example can't even get chip if you duck (and she moves forward when shooting so she can't actually do them all day). Projectiles aren't all about damage remember, so they aren't all made the same!

Aren't GA's arrows pretty plus on hit/block? I thought the point of them was the plus frames.

Ok so just to clear up a few misconceptions arrows have different unclear frame data. A high arrow up close on hit is at least 30 frames advantage. Low arrow up close on hit is at least 10 frames advantage. As well as overhead arrow is similar to low arrow. Just wanted to make sure everyone knew. Now d1 arrow can be easily interrupted which leads to his best setups. These are +3 on block, but any good counter poker with GA experience will see it coming before you even think of it. Now this is just general rush down for GA, but my point is that he has the weakest projectile in the game. So even if he wants to start zoning at his best he needs to load arrows & face a possible punish from certain characters & pressure from others. I'm not asking for anything that will break the game, yet alone the character. So sorry for the rant this is just one of the few things I'm passionate about in this game ( Complete Injustice ) where every character is viable, but has to outwork so many others. 3% projectile, fire arrow 1.15% chip, & less recovery on arrows. ( Could live without the last request ) Feel free to correct me if you disagree, that's why I'm here.

 

[Scoot Magee]

I don't think any arrow is actually advantage on block if anything they are 0.

 

[Sha]

Regular arrow +3 on block up close, if you don't believe test it. I could be wrong.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Regular arrow +3 on block up close, if you don't believe test it. I could be wrong.

The weird thing is with the jump method it seems there's a very slight advantage but I can d1 out of a d1 followup after the arrow is blocked. Doesn't make sense. I tested GA vs GA so that both have a 7 frame d1.

 

[Sha]

Hmm, thanks I'm to lazy to test it atm. I really wish they would make a frame data update post patch.

 

[7L]

I don't think any arrow is actually advantage on block if anything they are 0.

I think they are, after an arrow on block I usually get the d1 out vs 6 frame d1s. It does come down to 3 frames not being much at all but it's still something to give you slight advantage

 

[Scoot Magee]

I think they are, after an arrow on block I usually get the d1 out vs 6 frame d1s. It does come down to 3 frames not being much at all but it's still something to give you slight advantage

Yeah when I used the jump method you can see the advantage. The thing is I hit record for the dummy, did d1 xx arrow followed by another d1 (I even tried with my sticks turbo function) about 20 times and I was manually able to interrupt with my own d1 (as GA) every time.

It could be a training mode error or maybe my own error but that's why I did so many reps. It could be me fucking up though.