Game plan for cage once patch is released

[sLeeK]

So I have put a huge amount of time into cage and normally I'll start with F 3,2 poke until I get in the nut punch or I'll use F 3, 2 poke to start and mix it up with F+3, 3 etc. Now my question, once this patch drops will that change how you high caliber players use him? If so what will you change?

I opened this thread to discuss strategy for cage once this patch is released to try and get a head start. If f0xy/marvaz could leave some feedback it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Playpal]

Best bet is to wait until the patch before we actually talk about strategy. I doubt JC game play will change for the most part though. F3 2 will still be a great block string and on hit JC still has lots of advantage.

 

[sLeeK]

That's true, but the problem I have is people get wise to F 3, 2 poke and jump out of it. I've been conditioning myself to not use F 3, 2 xx specials lol

So what is the next best option because I don't want to take the risk of losing my block string pressure.

 

[Playpal]

If they blocked the F3 2 then you should follow up with a D1 (if you think they're gonna do something). Your D1 will snuff out anything with more than 6 frames. If they have a 6 frame move, you're still likely to snuff it out. Just be careful they block the D1, because then they can get out for sure.

If you're talking about after the F3 2 hits then you need to be quicker. You should be able to follow up with another F3 2.

 

[sLeeK]

Sorry I should of been more descriptive on what I was trying to say, so normally my opponents will block F 3,2 and D1 then jump out. Instead of using that should I use a different string? F3(stagger) F3,3 xx nutpunch or something along those lines? Also note I'm talking about the beginning of a block string

 

[Playpal]

If they're blocking your D1, then just follow up with another F3 2 or anti-air with uppercut, flipkick or jab into nutpunch combo. F3 3 is not a great string unless you're following up with ex forceball. You are at disadvantage on block (not that I have frame data, I used that unreliable jump technique to test frame advantage) and if you follow up with nut punch it'll easily get blocked and punished because the opponent is expecting the B3.

If you find the opponent is getting out of your pressure try mixing things up even more. F3, 11, the 21 and it's 50/50 (21B4 is punishable on block however.) Remember that you can do F33B3 ex forceball 5 times and take out half their health, all on block. This is assuming they're not ducking the ex forceball though. That's where F33 comes in though.

 

[jbthrash]

Now that the f3,2 is nerfed how will JC get around Reptile? If you use f3, 2 to pressure he can follow up with elbow to beat JC's down 1. They still left Reptile and Ermac's hit boxes the same so no frame trapping.

Any ideas around Reptile?

 

[Dizzy]

Now that the f3,2 is nerfed how will JC get around Reptile? If you use f3, 2 to pressure he can follow up with elbow to beat JC's down 1. They still left Reptile and Ermac's hit boxes the same so no frame trapping.

Any ideas around Reptile?

Not sure what you mean in that second sentence. If you use F3, 2 and it is blocked d1 trades priority with elbow dash. If it hits, you don't get nut punch but you get enough advantage to do another F3 or 2 to continue pressure and all reptile can do is block.

There is lots of situations where F3, 3 is totally fine to use (punishment, using it in situations where there is enough frame advantage for a guaranteed follow up, etc) in place of F3, 2.

 

[spongebob]

Your d1 should still beat the dash. Any armored move can interrupt frame traps though its not exclusive to reptile.

And escaping frame traps with dash can be extremely risky too unless the JC player falls into a pattern they can only dash in anticipation so if you simply don't do d1 and they dash then free combo.

 

[jbthrash]

Not sure what you mean in that second sentence. If you use F3, 2 and it is blocked d1 trades priority with elbow dash. If it hits, you don't get nut punch but you get enough advantage to do another F3 or 2 to continue pressure and all reptile can do is block.

There is lots of situations where F3, 3 is totally fine to use (punishment, using it in situations where there is enough frame advantage for a guaranteed follow up, etc) in place of F3, 2.

When I was fighting a Reptile the elbow beat my d1. Idk if they high blocked the string, low blocked, or just took it. Either way he got me.

 

[GNG Iniquity]

When I was fighting a Reptile the elbow beat my d1. Idk if they high blocked the string, low blocked, or just took it. Either way he got me.

JC's D1 is 6 frames. Reptile's elbow dash is 6 frames.

 

[jbthrash]

JC's D1 is 6 frames. Reptile's elbow dash is 6 frames.

According to Tom Brady the elbow dash is 5 frames and is the fastest move in the game. A smart Reptile player tends to beat my d1 with it.

 

[GNG Iniquity]

According to Tom Brady the elbow dash is 5 frames and is the fastest move in the game. A smart Reptile player tends to beat my d1 with it.

Well, I have about equal experience with both characters now, and I can tell you without a doubt that I have a significantly easier time with Reptile. He has a plethora of options, good damage, and doesn't have a sweet spot at which he excels at; unlike JC. Reptile vs JC is a 7:3 in Reptile's favor - IF JC tries to pressure him all you need to do is knock him down with elbow dash, elbow dash again and you're 2/3rds across the screen and able to zone JC out.

Also, EX FBs will still hit JC through the EX shadow kick armor. Which is bogus.

MAYBE WE CAN GET SOME CAGE PROS LIKE THE ABOVE MENTIONED TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION FOR US.

I certainly don't consider myself a pro, yes there's alternatives, but it still hurts him. Nut punch being removed from F3 2 means less diversity in his frametraps. What really hurts him is the fact that even more of the cast has been given EX armor to barrel through his frametraps, if they excel at zoning as well then that makes it rougher for him. Ask F0xy about this, he'll likely point out most of this, but this should be common knowledge.

I do feel that he'll drop a tier or two due to these changes, I don't see how anyone can argue that, he would've had difficulty with these changes to begin with the F3 2 change was just the icing on the cake. Anyways, I'm under the impression that you suspect that I have my doubts about NRS. I certainly do. Considering that the input glitch has been out prioritized by the f3 2 'glitch'.

Oh, and yes, I'm pretty fucking tired of having to adapt and change due to the patching. Particularly when certain characters were already difficult matchups and have thus become even more of a pain in my ass.

 

[Sao87]

According to Tom Brady the elbow dash is 5 frames and is the fastest move in the game. A smart Reptile player tends to beat my d1 with it.

5 frames start up and it becomes active on 6. If Reptile is winning on an absolute frame perfect trade with d1 and dash its because the game randomly decides a winner in trade situations. The f3,2 d1 pressure wont change after the patch, the only thing that changes is the fact that f3,2 d1 looped will give opponents more chances to escape. When ran frame perfectly the f3,2 d1 loop was such a tight frame trap that people had to wait for the game to randomly decide a winner on trades before you could escape. If you use this loop to catch people jumping away for pressure then nothing has changed for you.

The only thing that has changed is that you will no longer be trying to hit confirm into nut punch, but if you guys think real hard its not hard to find alternatives. MAYBE WE CAN GET SOME CAGE PROS LIKE THE ABOVE MENTIONED TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION FOR US.

 

[jbthrash]

5 frames start up and it becomes active on 6. If Reptile is winning on an absolute frame perfect trade with d1 and dash its because the game randomly decides a winner in trade situations. The f3,2 d1 pressure wont change after the patch, the only thing that changes is the fact that f3,2 d1 looped will give opponents more chances to escape. When ran frame perfectly the f3,2 d1 loop was such a tight frame trap that people had to wait for the game to randomly decide a winner on trades before you could escape. If you use this loop to catch people jumping away for pressure then nothing has changed for you.

The only thing that has changed is that you will no longer be trying to hit confirm into nut punch, but if you guys think real hard its not hard to find alternatives. MAYBE WE CAN GET SOME CAGE PROS LIKE THE ABOVE MENTIONED TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION FOR US.

I don't understand how the patch made it easier for people to eascape f3, 2, d1. The only thing that changed for f3, 2 was the linking. Correct? What could they have done to make it easier to escape?

 

[Sao87]

Slight recovery tweaks were made to d1.

 

[Shadowfire]

Did not cancel f3-2 pre-patch as I found it messed up my hit confirm rhythm. I always just used it for advantage, and f3-3 for confirms. I also didn't even know his sweep combo glitch existed. The patch will not change how/if I play Cage one bit.

Edit: And keep in mind, you can still cancel f3-2 into flip kick or nut punch if you think the opponent is going to poke or jump right after. It's just more explicitly a frame trapping move now.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

The worst part about the change is unlearning to hit confirm as well as punishing with F33nutpunch where you would have punished with F32nutpunch

Gotta just mindfuck the other guy with F32 on hit, will you go for another F32/F33/F3crossover/F33FB etc.

But obviously none of these will ever be as good as his F32nutpunch

 

[Shadowfire]

The damage difference is extremely marginal.

Also f33 leads to way more options, so making that also your B&B punish makes you even harder to read.

Regardless, you get more damage out of a launcher punish and can still land nut punch out of that, plus being in the air makes people really want to use breakers.

 

[Alright RyRy]

Its still the same thing pretty much, im playing on the patch and F3+3 isnt a bad string just dont get greedy and Nut punch alot. F3+3 does more damage than F3+2 did anyway. But since you "cant" combo into nut punch anymore after F3+2 anymore throw a random nut punch after it. Its all Mind Gamez with cage.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

F33 does more damage but is way more punishable if you miss it. You wouldnt want to throw out a random nutpunch because thats not mindgames, thats just asking to get the shit kicked out of you. Anybody would expect another attack to come after a blocked F32 at least a D1, then if they start to try to block the D1 to get out you can go with another F3 or 11

 

[Shadowfire]

Anyone know if the 11 followups had their hitboxes touched for that matter? Is there a reason to use them now? Or that weird 132 string.

 

[Alright RyRy]

true, but it all depends on how you play cage, and what you do after each string. Alot of people get greedy and try to poke out of it, so therefore a Np will work. But yes you are right it is dangerous to throw out random Nps, but on the other hand if you land one, it keeps then on edge. Everybody plays cage differently and some are more safe than others. Cage is a different character every time you play him.