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Question - Demolition Fixing reload

MsMiharo

MsMiharo

Kuff Bano
i think most of us agree demo needs some love when it comes to the reload. It's slower than the drone in SF and really cripples her. Ok let's not pretend this makes her trash but it hinders her game. So here are my suggestions on how it could be tweaked/fixed

* faster reloads. I think this is the go-to answer. However it might make her too strong. If she can reload almost with no risk in the neutral she will have a strong(er) zoning game. She will also be able to reload AND apply oki, especially in the corner. Now I wouldn't MIND this but I feel it might be a tad too much.

* reload even if hit. This I feel is important. If the reload speed is to stay the same at least let her get the reload even if she's hit during the activation (like lobo's trait in IGAU). I'd gladly take ~8% from a projectile if it means I'm fully stocked again. Getting hit out of the last possible frames of the reload and thus still being empty is so annoying.

* make ex drone call reload grenades. This move is weird. You can't use it when fully stocked. It acts differently depending on how many nades you have and you can't reload while the drone is still on the screen. I don't get why it doesn't give you a full stock I just don't. Having to spend a bar for a full stock is fair IMO considering she doesn't need it for combos.

* make reload cancelable. This is probably not going to happen but being able to dash cancel might help her out. Especially if a started reload would grant her grenades (lex trait in IGAU)

What do you all think? Overpowered?does she need the reload weakness? Discuss.
 
Dedlock

Dedlock

Apprentice
I think quickening up the reload would over power her and would cheapen the hardwork and skills used to play with this variation, out of your suggestions, I think cancelling mid reload seems fair.

but yes Demo needs some more attention particularly how the properties of using grenades and also making them hit low if you detonate them close to the floor.
 
D

DaZengie

https://www.facebook.com/groups/MortalKombatATX/
Good points...
I'll try not to be bias with my responses.
The changes to this variation were much needed, and I feel that we don't know its full potential is yet. To play well, demolitionists will have to know when and where to reload during a match, as well as creating opportunities to reload when you're being rushed down and have no grenades. Having played CO since day 1 and then switching to SF and playing that exclusively until last week lets me figure out how to defend yourself while you're without resources (grenades, drones, meter). We're still discovering new tech with Demolition. The current strategy to reload from a f4 dd1 is pretty good already. That does like low to mid 30% from a low, overhead, 7 frame punish, or f2 poke.

The question is...what is this variation? It's not rush down like CO, but not as defensive and zone-intensive as SF. Mix ups in Demo don't mean the same thing as mix-ups in CO. I think Sonya's Anti-air game got better since you can react and throw a stun grenade out and they eat a full combo from that, or if you only have 1 grenade left, you can throw a frag grenade and reload immediately after.

1) Agreed that faster reload will be the go-to answer.
Maybe just a few frames faster would be fair. Or keep the recovery frame the same, but have the actual replenishing be faster.
Or have her reload be dependent on how many grenades she needs. E.g. 1 grenade will be fast, 2 grenades will be medium speed, and 3 grenades will be the current speed.
2) Maybe give her armor when reloading? (e.g. Ferra Torr's Pain & Gain)
3) I actually like ex drone call even if the move is weird. I like the airstrike pressure. You can call it and force the opponent to be on the defensive and if they block you can do a 50/50 to break their block. I like that it gives you space and time to think. I like that it's a potential 25% special move.
4) this would change this entire variation. This probably won't happen. I like the way demo is designed. Just need some polishing and it'll be complete.
 
Tony at Home

Tony at Home

Master
Not so sure she really needs it.

At the very most, she should universally get a free reload after a successful b33212. This would only require a couple less frames.

I'd argue this is ok, because this move already gives her a free reload against the VAST majority of the cast, it's only a few exceptions who can stuff it (Scorpion). And in the cases like that, she literally has almost zero way to regain grenades once she's empty without getting a full combo.

But really, I don't think it ruins the character to have reload slow atm. With the only exception that the Scorpion matchup is extremely difficult.
 
Youphemism

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
A. Can we please stop with the whole asking for "fixes" when it's actually buffs people are asking for? Reload isn't broken or not working right, it's just slow.
B. Yes I do agree that it should be buffed. 63 frames is pretty harsh and for the record it's a HUGE troll that xray is EXACTLY +63 ON HIT. She's got safe options and conversions in the corner without grenades but midscreen is much tougher. The variation revolves around her grenades and even when she has them she doesn't have anything broken or OP or anything like that so I can't see why a faster reload isn't warranted. And by faster I don't mean 10 frame reloads because that would be scary haha, even if it was toned down to something like at the very very max/min(? the smallest amount of frames it should be) 35 frames (because although that's quite the drop it's still slowish) that would give us reload guaranteed off of B33212 on hit at least. They could tone down the hitstun slightly or make it so that we can't use 3 stuns in a combo to compensate if they really feel it's necessary as long as we get a faster reload.
C. I also think they should reduce the recovery on grenade throw slightly. Maybe not so quick that she could chase the grenade but quick enough so that if we detonate early we're still safe. Being plus on block might be too much but as long as we're safe. This would make conversions easier, it'd give her "pressure" I guess, and we'd still have used one of our grenades which we of course need for decent enough damage.

That's just my opinion anyway.
scarsunseen said:
End a midscreen combo with B1-DD1 or cornr combo with B14-DD1.

Case closed!
Click to expand...
Uh definitely not, B1 isn't a hard knockdown and B14 isn't the easiest to land even in the corner. Although B14 being a hard knockdown is good and should be used when it can don't get me wrong.
 
MsMiharo

MsMiharo

Kuff Bano
Youphemism said:
A. Can we please stop with the whole asking for "fixes" when it's actually buffs people are asking for? Reload isn't broken or not working right, it's just slow.
B. Yes I do agree that it should be buffed. 63 frames is pretty harsh and for the record it's a HUGE troll that xray is EXACTLY +63 ON HIT. She's got safe options and conversions in the corner without grenades but midscreen is much tougher. The variation revolves around her grenades and even when she has them she doesn't have anything broken or OP or anything like that so I can't see why a faster reload isn't warranted. And by faster I don't mean 10 frame reloads because that would be scary haha, even if it was toned down to something like at the very very max/min(? the smallest amount of frames it should be) 35 frames (because although that's quite the drop it's still slowish) that would give us reload guaranteed off of B33212 on hit at least. They could tone down the hitstun slightly or make it so that we can't use 3 stuns in a combo to compensate if they really feel it's necessary as long as we get a faster reload.
C. I also think they should reduce the recovery on grenade throw slightly. Maybe not so quick that she could chase the grenade but quick enough so that if we detonate early we're still safe. Being plus on block might be too much but as long as we're safe. This would make conversions easier, it'd give her "pressure" I guess, and we'd still have used one of our grenades which we of course need for decent enough damage.

That's just my opinion anyway.

Uh definitely not, B1 isn't a hard knockdown and B14 isn't the easiest to land even in the corner. Although B14 being a hard knockdown is good and should be used when it can don't get me wrong.
Click to expand...
B14 is actually easy off her bnb. Starter sg f4 sg njp ji1 4 sg b14 reload. I agree with the rest
 
MadeOfMetal

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
ok i gotta say im pretty mad at B14 not being a HKD anymore...

1. id say making her Reload quicker would be too op and make her easy for the masses.

2. dash cancel on dd1(reload) this should not happen, even though i love Sonya. she already has enough tools, and does not need extra possible frame advantage with RC possibilities of DD1DC-RC

3. MAybe B14 could be more advantage on Hit, just enough to reload?


or we could have B14 changed back to a HKD, does anyone know why that was bad in first place... ?

NOTE: B14 was my goto move to get outof a jam, when i got breakered or when online inputs failed, and dropped reload at end of combo... so i used it as a staple, and we know F4 is in no way a move to fall on, you would have to be autistic to allow Sonya to use that to reload with, unlees its at the end of a combo!

Does anyone know how to safely reload other than ending combo with F4 or Ending with BLK+DD1?

im lost and might have to drop Sonya for good now.. because i loved Demo...
and i think CO is to easy(not fun for me)

and SF is too hard for me, i just dont know how to use her setups...

id appreciate any input on my questions...she is kinda my main... i do use over 12 characters, but she was my true main!
 
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MsMiharo

MsMiharo

Kuff Bano
Her f3 should be 2-in-1 cancelable so you can use it as an ender. Atm it has no use except brutality and that way you could reload/drone up/leg grab after
 
Gesture Required Ahead

Gesture Required Ahead

Get on that hook
I'm still baffled over the B14 nerf. It only nerfs Demo. Why? Did they really not like the idea of safe reloads?
This makes Sonya NOT want to play in the corner because she actually does better midscreen now. So dumb.
 
jmt

jmt

Kombatant
You should get your grenades no matter what once the drone appears on screen and you see her reaching. Also wake n bake should be 1 grenade. Cmon NRS.
 
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