Breakthrough Exposed: "Random" Frame Advantage out of 112 resets

[Eddy Wang]

So, i asked Somberness to reconfirm the frame advantage of some BnBs of skarlet, and he came to a conclusion that depends of how you hit 112 on different heights to get the higher frame advantage to the lowest, so it can be variable, Skarlet can get +13 after 4 air hits( the 1st launcher counts) before she hits 112~rd to +4 if you miss the highest height of it and hit 112 really low.

Some combos are so hard to do that you'll eventually get +12 or below of it.
To make the job easier to recognize the frame advantage you may have, Somberness took some pics to help on explanation, so here it is.

- When 112 hits at this gravity, you may get a higher cancel advantage enough to jail the opponent:
Reset startup
http://i47.tinypic.com/2vjnzpk.jpg
cancel advantage
http://i45.tinypic.com/21437sl.jpg

And when you do it really low, she will only get a +4 of frame advantage

Low reset
http://i45.tinypic.com/160ught.jpg
Cancel advantage
http://i49.tinypic.com/2mfjg93.jpg

Below there is two examples of skarlet's regular BnBs and the possible frame advantage you may have, if you reset them according to the number of air hits on the highest point of the reset.
* 4 air hits before 112~rd = +13
* 5 air hits before 112~rd = +12

Note: if you increase any BnB beyond that, it will get harder to reset on the highest point possible and you may screw up and get +4 only.


F4~rd~ds, u3, 2~rd~ds, 112~rd
Air hits before 112~rd: 4
Higher Cancel Advantage: at least +13f
Damage: 36% /39% w jiP

F4~rd~ds, 2~rd~ds,2~rd~ds, 112~rd
Air hits before 112~rd: 5
Higher Cancel Advantage: at least +12f
Damage: 36% /39% w jiP



And here is a list of combos with nearly the same air hits proprieties you may want to check it out

B2~rd~ds, B2~rd~ds, F4~rd~ds, 112~rd 6 air hits
U3, 2~rd~ds, 2~rd~ds, 112~rd 5 air hits
F212,1+2~rd~us, 2~dc, 112~rd 6 air hits

Corner
F4~rd~ds, u3, 2~ds, b11f4~ds, b11f4~ds, 112/ 12 air hits before 112

 

[ryublaze]

So since you get +12 off of the 2,rd,2,rd combo then does that mean the opponent can't armor out of 1,1,4 after it?

 

[MagicMan357]

-________________________-

this bitch right here...

 

[Playpal]

The same probably applies for all standing resets. I know ending Kabal's corner combo with jip f4 won't allow for a safe jump, but just ending with f4 does.

112 probably gives different advantage depending on if they're crouching too. I know it does for Sonya's 112.

 

[SaJa]

B2~rd~ds, B2~rd~ds, F4~rd~ds, 112~rd 6 air hits

So it means +4 advantage ? 41% with jiP and F4 starter instead of b2 (LBSH here ^^), the one I'm using. Easy to reset* on this one contrary to what you said for those with more than 5 hits. ;p

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

+4 still ain't bad.

My bnb isn't here.

F4 rd ds, u3 dagger, f4 rd ds, 112. Any word on this one Somberness?

We have known for a while that the height of the 112 Changes advantage. It's the exact numbers we are not sure of.

 

[Somberness]

I'll have to figure it out tomorrow but it's likely too have a good range too.

 

[WarfaringStranger]

+4 still ain't bad.

My bnb isn't here.

F4 rd ds, u3 dagger, f4 rd ds, 112. Any word on this one Somberness?

We have known for a while that the height of the 112 Changes advantage. It's the exact numbers we are not sure of.

That's my tourney BnB as well....small margin of error =)


To the point:
I don't think "random" properly describes the advantage after Skarlet's 112 standing reset. "Variable" is a much better qualifier.

Seems to me that the advantage earned after standing resets in MK9 varies depending on the position of both characters relative to one another. In this case, Skarlet's horizontal position relative to her airborne opponent's vertical position and, of course, Gravity, i.e. the number of hits landed prior to the 112 attempt.

Within the range of hits (4-7 I think) that can be delivered before landing Skarlet's 112 reset in a midscreen BnB combo, there are small windows in which the Skarlet user must dash in order to execute a successful followup attack. These windows (and the user's actions therein) directly affect Skarlet's horizontal position and her opponent's vertical position relative to one another; ergo directly affecting the cancel advantage earned from landing 112 empty red dash. I think we're dealing with simple causality (see the Marovingian Speech for more, lol) mistaken for randomness.

I think most of us intuitively understand the logic (sorry if my first attempt to verbalize doesn't make sense). Am I missing something? Is there, in fact, a random component?

 

[AssassiN]

The height has always defined the frame advantage of the reset, doesn't matter which character and what kind of reset(Cyrax net, Kabal's F4, Baraka's F4, ...).

That's why I try to go for the highest reset but I drop it sometimes.
I only get +4 with certain situations(punishing Mileena's telekick, ...).
But you can avoid these low frame advantages by using slashes instead of daggers, more chance of dropping it then though.

To this day I still use(except online): F4~RD~DS, U3, 2~RD~DS, 112
Was thinking about perhaps changing it, might go in the lab and cook up another BNB.

 

[Eddy Wang]

+4 still ain't bad.

My bnb isn't here.

F4 rd ds, u3 dagger, f4 rd ds, 112. Any word on this one Somberness?

We have known for a while that the height of the 112 Changes advantage. It's the exact numbers we are not sure of.

i wanted to know about this one too, because i also use it.
since this BnB are 6 air hits, i'm not sure if you'll get +13 from it, i'm thinking about +11, or +10, but again the f4 before the last down slash gives a good height for a reset.

I also have this one: F4~rd~ds, u3, 2~rd us, 2~dc, 112~rd
This combo also hits 37% reset, build more meter than the first one and has similar cancel advantage.

So since you get +12 off of the 2,rd,2,rd combo then does that mean the opponent can't armor out of 1,1,4 after it?

if you land the 114 on the 2 frame gap its impossible to armor out.
I was testing this +13 frame advantage with mileena costume 3 by set them AI to crouch block immediately after the reset, and even standing 2 rd mixup wasn't whiffing, which is good to set them up for a overhead or simply fake one between fuzzy to land a 114 when they go back up expecting a Ex ds

snip

yes, because it may not be consistent, the air hits needs to be counted to make it easy to land 112, but the randomness is where you will exactly hit 112~rd is what will make it random. As you can see on the explanation i said "at least +13f" and not "exactly +13f" if you hit 114 after 4 hits
i wanted to type variable too, until i test it on practice mode.

AssassiN[be] Just cook anything with 4 to 5 air hits if you can land the reset to the highest easely and 6 if you're close enough to land the 112 high enough

 

[Eddy Wang]

The resets were on point today, every time they tried to escape it got blown up by red pain or 2~rd setup.
This was indeed a great help, it defines how consistent some BnBs has to be and give you enough time to think what you can bring up to the table once you connect a F4

 

[Somberness]

+4 still ain't bad.

My bnb isn't here.

F4 rd ds, u3 dagger, f4 rd ds, 112. Any word on this one Somberness?

We have known for a while that the height of the 112 Changes advantage. It's the exact numbers we are not sure of.

This is +10.

+8.

Squeezing out 1 or 2 more should be possible.