Tech - Lackey Ex Charge doesn't scale?

[Shade667]

Just found this out. Did a bit of research and couldnt find anything on it. So ima assume this is new maybe. Even so, this gives me a reason to use the move in a way that isnt against a full auto jacky or a summoner quan chi.

Not bad damge too.

 

[MadeFromMetal]

Everyone knew about this. We all just kept our mouths shut for fear of NRS catching wind and now you've gone and RUINED IT!.......

Wouldn't that be a horrible attitude to have? Nice find, man. Looking forward to going home and playing around with this.

 

[Parnak]

This is known for quite some time now. I have mentioned it in my Torrvex vortex-type tech thread. The extra +8 damage of the enhanced Torr Charge does not scale. Check for that thread, the word unscaled is underlined like that at the lower section of the post.
The unscaled +8 is mentioned as one of the reasons why I recommended using Torr Charge as a combo ender in that post.

 

[Shade667]

Everyone knew about this. We all just kept our mouths shut for fear of NRS catching wind and now you've gone and RUINED IT!.......

Wouldn't that be a horrible attitude to have? Nice find, man. Looking forward to going home and playing around with this.

Gave me a heart attack dude



I just typed it into google and nothing came up. im not searching every thread for something thats not what the thread is called.

And im sure others didnt know, who didnt read the torrvex thread. I just skimmed it.
So im sure making a thread ro highlight it isnt a bad shout...
unless you guys really think NRS would nerf it?

 

[Parnak]

Gave me a heart attack dude



I just typed it into google and nothing came up. im not searching every thread for something thats not what the thread is called.

And im sure others didnt know, who didnt read the torrvex thread. I just skimmed it.
So im sure making a thread ro highlight it isnt a bad shout...
unless you guys really think NRS would nerf it?

Well, the thread was named Torrvex but was actually all about Lackey Torr Charge. I'm an enthusiast of that move and this has caused me unwanted debates with other members, like Roll vs Charge, Torryuken vs Charge, Charge as optimal punish etc. I consider it somewhat safe and a great anti-air. I'm sure NRS has no problem with enhanced Torr Charge and intended for it to be like that, because in order to link Torr Charge to combos you abandon more damaging (and maybe of harder execution) combo continuations. Like I said in Torrvex thread, Torr Charge is all about the set-up it provides on hit, but in case you need more damage to finish off enemy, you don't need to resort to other combos nor alter your set-up combos (charge ender combos), you just enhance it and reach for the damage that heavy-hit combos provide. However, the enhanced charge offers no set-up and puts them at full screen distance. But still, this is a great tool, having the option to cause big damage with torrvex set-up combos.!

 

[Doombawkz]

Gave me a heart attack dude



I just typed it into google and nothing came up. im not searching every thread for something thats not what the thread is called.

And im sure others didnt know, who didnt read the torrvex thread. I just skimmed it.
So im sure making a thread ro highlight it isnt a bad shout...
unless you guys really think NRS would nerf it?

"Nerf" isn't the right word, though I doubt they intended for it to not scale its damage at all. To be safe one should be tagging @colt and getting his input.
Worst come to they correct it.

Thread is justified imo, since this specifically does need direct investigation.

Well, the thread was named Torrvex but was actually all about Lackey Torr Charge. I'm an enthusiast of that move and this has caused me unwanted debates with other members, like Roll vs Charge, Torryuken vs Charge, Charge as optimal punish etc. I consider it somewhat safe and a great anti-air. I'm sure NRS has no problem with enhanced Torr Charge and intended for it to be like that, because in order to link Torr Charge to combos you abandon more damaging (and maybe of harder execution) combo continuations. Like I said in Torrvex thread, Torr Charge is all about the set-up it provides on hit, but in case you need more damage to finish off enemy, you don't need to resort to other combos nor alter your set-up combos (charge ender combos), you just enhance it and reach for the damage that heavy-hit combos provide. However, the enhanced charge offers no set-up and puts them at full screen distance. But still, this is a great tool, having the option to cause big damage with torrvex set-up combos.!

Actually if you have the bar to burn MB charge is a set-up of its own rites. Also no one debates you on which is better between Roll and charge, but its fair to point out some issues you may face using charge in the way you tend to describe it. I personally am a fan of normal throw, more power to you for using what you feel is the best, but don't victimize friendly constructive discussion.

 

[Parnak]

"Nerf" isn't the right word, though I doubt they intended for it to not scale its damage at all. To be safe one should be tagging @colt and getting his input.
Worst come to they correct it.

Thread is justified imo, since this specifically does need direct investigation.


Actually if you have the bar to burn MB charge is a set-up of its own rites. Also no one debates you on which is better between Roll and charge, but its fair to point out some issues you may face using charge in the way you tend to describe it. I personally am a fan of normal throw, more power to you for using what you feel is the best, but don't victimize friendly constructive discussion.

Enhanced Torr Charge forfeits set-up for more damage, it provides no set-up. Frame adv. is minimal, even if you EX-Roll asap they have time to jump over you. The full screen distance it creates does not favor the Lackey player.
I don't think the unscaled +8 needs any kind of fixing, I believe it was intentionally made like that all along. The unscaled damage is the move's special attribute for becoming enhanced. Here's why; After F2 launcher you can follow up with F3, then 4xxCommand Grab. This combo ain't hard, it's meterless and causes only 1 damage less than F2,4xx(enhanced)Torr Charge. My point is that for every combo ending with enhanced Torr Charge (spending one bar of course), there is always a meterless combo from that same launcher causing only slightly less damage. And you can always exceed the enhanced Torr Charge combo damage output by burning the same meter for EX Torryuken. This shows that the enhanced Torr Charge's unscaled damage output is not abusive nor can it ever be abused, for the move can only link with less damaging combos. How is that a mistake? This obviously is there to encourage strategic gameplay. Giving set-up combo users the option to cause more damage within their set-up oriented combo by burning meter and forfeiting the set-up in the process. A quick call after judging opponent's remaining health.

To this point, I need to say that it is kind of disappointing that no one ever talked about that in my thread, after reading it. I came to believe that the unscaled property was common knowledge because of that. Now I see this was not so. I agree with Shade667 that one cannot always read all threads and he was on point making this one because of that. And I agree that this thread is justified, it's just that I see how this is an easy thing to say for others than me.

 

[Shade667]

I see it being useful cuz it can be used to cause a chunk of damage for not so many hits, which is useful in not giving ur opponent as much meter if they cant break already.
As for setups, what if ur in the corner? Is it different to midscreen?

 

[Doombawkz]

Enhanced Torr Charge forfeits set-up for more damage, it provides no set-up. Frame adv. is minimal, even if you EX-Roll asap they have time to jump over you. The full screen distance it creates does not favor the Lackey player.
I don't think the unscaled +8 needs any kind of fixing, I believe it was intentionally made like that all along. The unscaled damage is the move's special attribute for becoming enhanced. Here's why; After F2 launcher you can follow up with F3, then 4xxCommand Grab. This combo ain't hard, it's meterless and causes only 1 damage less than F2,4xx(enhanced)Torr Charge. My point is that for every combo ending with enhanced Torr Charge (spending one bar of course), there is always a meterless combo from that same launcher causing only slightly less damage. And you can always exceed the enhanced Torr Charge combo damage output by burning the same meter for EX Torryuken. This shows that the enhanced Torr Charge's unscaled damage output is not abusive nor can it ever be abused, for the move can only link with less damaging combos. How is that a mistake? This obviously is there to encourage strategic gameplay. Giving set-up combo users the option to cause more damage within their set-up oriented combo by burning meter and forfeiting the set-up in the process. A quick call after judging opponent's remaining health.

To this point, I need to say that it is kind of disappointing that no one ever talked about that in my thread, after reading it. I came to believe that the unscaled property was common knowledge because of that. Now I see this was not so. I agree with Shade667 that one cannot always read all threads and he was on point making this one because of that. And I agree that this thread is justified, it's just that I see how this is an easy thing to say for others than me.

The thing is they can avoid the roll if they look for it. However, if they attempt to continue their zoning game as they get up the roll will connect and give a combo conversion.

I feel like its not intended personally just because while there are meterless options, those options also leave them nearly full-screen. If you consider the value of the move, an extra +8% for free is pretty monsterous when you consider that some combos end up in the mid 40s, sometimes even around the 50s, using this idea, for one bar. Also the move already gives us a big advantage in forcing a situation where most opponents have to try and approach us against our long reaching normals. Also while I think its "fair", I don't believe its "intended". Moves all have to scale properly, this move quite obvious ignores it.

I don't think most people looked for it. Even I didnt realize it.

 

[Shade667]

Found it on accident while I was streaming and saw that it stayed 8% no matter how long the combo. Quan chi's warlock scoop also doesnt scale, but thats only on the ground so that makes me think that it wasnt intended, while this works in a juggle as well.

 

[Parnak]

I found it while looking for "Torrvex" combos, noticed that no matter what combo I was using, the enhancement always added the same damage. But let's keep in mind that burning one bar of meter into the command throw as an ender, that always yields more damage than the respective enhanced Torr Charge combo from the same starter. Damage wise it is more effective to burn the meter for the EX Back Breaker. Test it and see.. Another reason why I do not consider the unscaled +8 to be a result of overlooking

 

[Shade667]

It shouldnt deal more damage because of scaling.
Im pretty sure I tested that to see if it was viable, and it did more damage in a small combo.
Didn do a big one cuz I suck at command grabs. But the grab is 5 hits each that scale, where as charge is 10% that scales + 8% unscaled.

 

[ManBatHorse]

To be safe one should be tagging @colt and getting his input.
Worst come to they correct it.

Thread is justified imo, since this specifically does need direct investigation.

Kill Snitchy McRat