Match-up Discussion DoomsDay and Batman MU help

[BCE]

in case of Doomsday, why exactly all tiers says doomsday is not even top 10 ? how exactly can i counter his almost impossible to react to low/overhead attacks ? and more importantly, his ridiculous attack that is overhead and low?
no matter if i back/front dash, his meteor smash always hit me -_-

is case of batman, how can i counter all his jump in ? it looks like all his normals are plus on block
every time batman get near me, i push block and start my pressure, i simply cant find a window to block->punish batman

 

[LEGEND]

for doomsday go into practice mode a record him doing the DF2 move over and over and then just practice blocking it for awhile. If you really just can't get the hang of it eat the low eat since it only doe 2% and you'll get a wake-up

His MB supernova can be forward dash and punished (HEAVILY). You need need to practice the timing for it but it shouldn't be too hard

idk what lows you are talking about, Sweep? and his overheads are hella slow. You should be able to react, again just practice

when he's in trait you want to use strings that recover quickly on hit like B22, D1D2, 21 and 11

DD can sometimes be hit by both hits of MB LC when he is ducking. I think its distance, stance and character Motion specific (weird, i know)
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Don't know much about the Batman MU. i tend to play Sinestro there

 

[MashPotatoTower]

Flash top 5

 

[Xenrail]

earthshake - block high then low. impossible to react if he links it in with a normal so you'll have to see it coming
supernova - if he does it right in your face you can hit him with a normal. if you react too slow, then block the mid and instantly dash forward then turn around to do a full combo punish. the meterburn version tracks. armor it

doomsday's higher damage combos starts from an overhead (f23/b223). block high more often than low.

learn to block crossups vs batman. if his j2 is timed wrong, then it won't jail you. most of batman's strings can be countered by a d12 into full combo.

 

[SaJa]

and more importantly, his ridiculous attack that is overhead and low?

You supposed to be able to block it, offline at least. DD is fine since he has been nerfed hard.

 

[AK Harold]

For batman heavy j2 pressure you can walk foward and duck to shrink your hitbox, once you get used to it you can punish him relentlessly for doing it. For now though you can just dash foward and reset it to a neutral game.

For DD you dont really react to the high low, it is just muscle memory blocking. DD is fairly punishable overall without meter too.

Also, I assume all this is offline since I really do not like catering to online tactics.

 

[Hiltzy85]

the good news with Batman is that once you knock him down, he is basically free, since his wakeup attacks are horrible. He basically has to decide between backdashing (which you can punish with b22 or f21 if you're careful and you make a read) and throwing out a super-risky slide kick or parry. Against less than excellent batmen, I find Flash can pretty much NJ2 on his wake up and he won't really be able to do anything besides block or start backdashing every time.

I used to have a lot of trouble with batman, but now that I know to hold off a bit on rushing in with mids and how to better deal with his wake up options, I don't find him so bad. I was told once that with most batman players, if you can survive their initial jumping all over the place j2 pressure and random trait bats, they will start to get frustrated really fast and go on auto pilot and start doing retarded stuff like shooting full screen grapple guns and doing random double jumps, which gives flash a free way in. I have found this to be almost 100% true. Once you start pressuring him, he really doesn't have very good defense.

 

[BCE]

ok guys, thanks for the help, but i really cant see why doomsday is low tier.
everytime i see him using the super nova, i use the b3 or f3 with armor, but its incredibly common to doomsday land behind flash or anyother char, wiffing the attack. and no matter if i dash as soon as i see doomsday jumping or wait to him desappear above, my dash foward cant dodge, this attack have an amazing hit box.

and in batman case, i cant find a chance to dash under batman or punish his j2 spam, everytime he hit me i pushblock him, lose 1 bar meter but stop this shit spam.

so.... theres any video match of someone really humiliating doomsday ? it doesnt need to be against flash
the strings of batman that i can punish with d1d2 are the low kicks ? his b1 i guess

 

[AK Harold]

So I found an easy way to deal with super nova is to speed dodge leave you at advantage heavily.

Vs Bats I would set training mode up to see the ranges that you can crouch tech them. It is a great crossup but if they do it high you can avoid a lot of them. Bats tend to do them early to stuff us from air to air. Also I wish I recorded some sets vs local DD I had some strong sets against. Was at an 80% win rate for a good 30 games or so.

 

[LEGEND]

the strings of batman that i can punish with d1d2 are the low kicks ? his b1 i guess

his 113 and 223 have a gap before the last kick. Idk of any other gaps or punishes for Batman

wait, sometimes depending on the distance, his B113 string will have the second kick wiff and you can punish

 

[BCE]

So I found an easy way to deal with super nova is to speed dodge leave you at advantage heavily.

Vs Bats I would set training mode up to see the ranges that you can crouch tech them. It is a great crossup but if they do it high you can avoid a lot of them. Bats tend to do them early to stuff us from air to air. Also I wish I recorded some sets vs local DD I had some strong sets against. Was at an 80% win rate for a good 30 games or so.

omg, this is the best tech EVER, the speed dodge works perfectly to punish supernova, doomsday is MU 9-1 now against flash

 

[Kiko]

omg, this is the best tech EVER, the speed dodge works perfectly to punish supernova, doomsday is MU 9-1 now against flash

I hope you made that number up like right now lol.

A good DD will hardly rely on supernova. It's that shoulder charge you have to watch out for.

 

[BCE]

i dont care about his shoulder MB, i like when people waste bar, if he DARE to use normal shoulder he will eat full combo with mine d1, and since supernova is useless, DD will have a hard time to start his bullshit pressure with earthquake

 

[Hiltzy85]

I hope you made that number up like right now lol.

A good DD will hardly rely on supernova. It's that shoulder charge you have to watch out for.

I'm pretty sure that you can just speed dodge shoulder charge, too, for more or less the same effect. It isn't as easy as speed dodging Bane's shoulder, but still

 

[BCE]

flash can speed dodge and punish bane too ? OMG, that is absurd

 

[BCE]

and im noob, salty and whatever you may call me, but i give up to fight batman using flash, everytime he activates his trait ( damn thing that recharges too quickly), i am obligated to stop and defend that bullshit, while he can dash and start that bullshit j2 spam. Or he simply can activate the trait to force me to stop, than start a spam of his batrangs that for some reason are mid and i cant jump them because the MB explosion hit me and i cant speed dodge because he can punish it full combo releasing the trait.
so right now, against batman, without mercy i use scorpion or batgirl.

 

[Hiltzy85]

and im noob, salty and whatever you may call me, but i give up to fight batman using flash, everytime he activates his trait ( damn thing that recharges too quickly), i am obligated to stop and defend that bullshit, while he can dash and start that bullshit j2 spam. Or he simply can activate the trait to force me to stop, than start a spam of his batrangs that for some reason are mid and i cant jump them because the MB explosion hit me and i cant speed dodge because he can punish it full combo releasing the trait.
so right now, against batman, without mercy i use scorpion or batgirl.

after blocking j2 you really don't have anything to worry about...Just block low to cover his b1 starter. Once you learn what his strings look like, the overheads are easy to see coming, and he barely does any chip damage off of blocked strings. Any time he tries to follow up a string that is negative on block by jumping over you again for another j2 cross up, I'm pretty sure Flash can jump backward and air to air him with either j1 or j2. From that, you can get a small combo and knock him down, at which point you get to abuse Batman's crappy wake ups. Make him scared to parry with d1d2 and neutral jumps. Once you've got that down, he's going to have to either do something really unsafe like slide (which you can jump over and whiff punish with a full combo), or just backdashing or trying to guess your 50/50.

If he doesn't have trait on and you block a batarang (and he doesn't MB it), you can punish him from pretty far away with a MB lightning charge, which puts him in the same position as above. You need to be very patient against batman, and when you get an opening get him for as much damage as possible. Once you knock him down and get a lead, there is a good chance you'll be able to walk all over him.