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Dont just blame the new guy

Ok we`ve all seen it, we`ve all played somebody at some point who is clearly only new to the game who cant block for shit or pull out a special move so they opt to just crouch or jump away as far as they can go to escape you, but what about when an experienced good player does it? Ive being unfortunate lately in playing some good or potentialy good players who despite playing mk2 since the beginning and knowing everything there is to know about the game still choose to back off for the whole duration of the game and leg sweep every jump kick or uppercut every teleport you perform etc, so what can you do? Well you could just play them at their own game but risk the timer running out, or you could go all in attack but risk losing the game anyway, or do you just back out of the game altogether? No matter what option i take ill either feel bad that i keep losing, or bored that nothing is happening, or ill feel worse for "cowardly" backing out, leaving the opponent with a false sense or achievment, so my question is, is this type of opponents play it safe approach a winner?
 

YourMKArcadeSource

Your Source For All Things MK Arcade Related
I had this exact situation last night. I was playing PS3 against a random lobby guy and EVERY match, he just backed into the corner and waited until I did something. Got pretty annoying so I left. To answer your question, I think that THEY think it's a strategy of some sort. The main objective IS to win, but you gotta be a good sport about it. Running away and baiting is a shitty way to win, but a win is a win to some people.
 
Yeh i suppose your right, but it can be very difficult to be a good sport when a good player should know better. Ive had the mis-fortune of having to weed out the players on my PSN freinds list who play this way, and leaving them a message that unless they change the way they play there is no point in playing again. And the irony is, in the past, when i played them at their own style, they would message me furiously telling me to attack more and to stop cowaring back, so basically it was one law for them and another for me. At the end of the day it is all about winning, im an attacking player who enjoys playing an attacking player, but you will never ever find a countering player who enjoys playing a countering player.
 

X820

Noob
This has always been a point of discussion when playing MK2 and for me one of the reasons why I basically stopped playing it.

In my oppinion in a fighting game you are SUPPOSED to fight, but in this game according to some you have to take this as religion and win at all costs, nevermind playing the game well or having fun.

I can only see these type of players doing a victory dance after winning by letting timer run out.
 
Thats a good point X820, and it was that very reason why i deleted them so that they wouldnt put me off playing the game. Im only playing this game a year and it only took me a week to stop spamming long distance sai throws and backing off etc and to fight properly, but most of these players were playing 10 years and still played like a noob. 1 player was so bad that i could actually go for a piss mid-game, come back and he`d still be crouching there waiting for me to make the first move, it was like mk2 combined with a game of Chess. Boredality!!
 

BeRB

Mortal
Do whatever you can to win. No such thing as cheap or lame.

If a player can beat you with little experience then you aren't as experienced as you thought because you have been outsmarted by an amateur. Maybe, I'm strange but i don't get why it's such a bad thing if they win they did the right thing. If that gets wins in MKII, Ima do it.
 

Dark_Rob

Champion
drummistjoey said:
Thats a good point X820, and it was that very reason why i deleted them so that they wouldnt put me off playing the game. Im only playing this game a year and it only took me a week to stop spamming long distance sai throws and backing off etc and to fight properly, but most of these players were playing 10 years and still played like a noob. 1 player was so bad that i could actually go for a piss mid-game, come back and he`d still be crouching there waiting for me to make the first move, it was like mk2 combined with a game of Chess. Boredality!!
There is no such thing as "fighting properly" in any fighting game. and anyone who tells you there is is lying to you. Let me ask you this, was backing off and spamming sais working for you?? If it was then why did you stop?
Because someone told you thats not the proper way to play? Utter nonsense. A character with the ability to lockdown and zone like Mileena can and you dont exploit it because of some honor code amongst players? Rubbish.

There are many examples in fighting games of characters whos best strategy is to be lame. Look at E honda in SSF4. Once you get a life lead your absolute best move is to sit at the far end of the screen and park the stick in Down/back. Why? Because Honda is a defensive tank and its very hard for an attacking opponent to get to him when hes doing this, especially if he has meter for EX headbutt. Being lame is at the core of Hondas defensive strategy.

Do not let anyone tell you how to play man, the only way that matters is the way that gets you the win. Allowing yourself to be forced into playing by some ridiculous code of honor amongst players will only hold you back from reaching your absolute best. It is like a pair of shackles holding you down.

drummistjoey said:
Yeh i suppose your right, but it can be very difficult to be a good sport when a good player should know better. Ive had the mis-fortune of having to weed out the players on my PSN freinds list who play this way, and leaving them a message that unless they change the way they play there is no point in playing again. And the irony is, in the past, when i played them at their own style, they would message me furiously telling me to attack more and to stop cowaring back, so basically it was one law for them and another for me. At the end of the day it is all about winning, im an attacking player who enjoys playing an attacking player, but you will never ever find a countering player who enjoys playing a countering player.
This is exactly what i am talking about. The scrub code of honor is an ever changing mish mash of rules that make no sense. What they are really trying to tell you is "Play in such a way that the match seems challenging to me but that I still win at the end"
No matter what you are doing if you win you are being cheap, so there is very little point in trying to play by they're rules to begin with. The scrub does not understand the game. So the best way for him to win is to make sure you play by his rules, whatever the hell they may be. And if you are still winning by his rules he will make up new rules because in reality his only rule is "Let me win but make it look like your not letting me win."
Soon he attracts other scrubs to his way of thinking because its alot easier than actually learning the game and how to win, and POOF next thing you know you have a code of honor that everyone follows and everyone believes is the right way to play the game because they never bothered to learn to play at the highest level.

The very best thing you can do for yourself is forget all this nonsense and just play to win. Since you are going to aggravate the scrub anyway by having the gaul to win against him you might as well stop trying to play by his rules to.
 

X820

Noob
Dark_Rob said:
There is no such thing as "fighting properly" in any fighting game. and anyone who tells you there is is lying to you. Let me ask you this, was backing off and spamming sais working for you?? If it was then why did you stop?
Because someone told you thats not the proper way to play? Utter nonsense. A character with the ability to lockdown and zone like Mileena can and you dont exploit it because of some honor code amongst players? Rubbish.

There are many examples in fighting games of characters whos best strategy is to be lame. Look at E honda in SSF4. Once you get a life lead your absolute best move is to sit at the far end of the screen and park the stick in Down/back. Why? Because Honda is a defensive tank and its very hard for an attacking opponent to get to him when hes doing this, especially if he has meter for EX headbutt. Being lame is at the core of Hondas defensive strategy.

Do not let anyone tell you how to play man, the only way that matters is the way that gets you the win. Allowing yourself to be forced into playing by some ridiculous code of honor amongst players will only hold you back from reaching your absolute best. It is like a pair of shackles holding you down.
Ahhhhh so it begins.

Casual < > Tournament.

2 different type of play, you must know the difference.

When I wrote that, I was aiming at casual play, nothing else.

Some of us actually LIKE playing a game to have FUN in casual games..

Must I really continue? LMAO.
 

X820

Noob
Dark_Rob said:
There is no such thing as "fighting properly" in any fighting game.
Well.. there actually is, and there are many many pages on different websites that are filled with people saying so. Even the biggest turtles and the religious players say that to some extent, where or not it's justified is another story, the game registers a win, there for....

It all boils down to the mindset of the player in casuals, needless to say.

But oh well.
 

Dark_Rob

Champion
X820 said:
Ahhhhh so it begins.

Casual < > Tournament.

2 different type of play, you must know the difference.

When I wrote that, I was aiming at casual play, nothing else.

Some of us actually LIKE playing a game to have FUN in casual games..

Must I really continue? LMAO.
I didnt quote you X so nothing I said was in response to you. Nevertheless I of course understand the difference between casuals and tournaments. But if casuals are just to have fun then nothing that happens during them should really be upsetting this guy should it?

And even if his reason for playing casuals is to just have fun, should he be expecting his opponent to play in a "fun" way simply because thats how he wants it?
 

Dark_Rob

Champion
X820 said:
Well.. there actually is, and there are many many pages on different websites that are filled with people saying so. Even the biggest turtles and the religious players say that to some extent, where or not it's justified is another story, the game registers a win, there for....

It all boils down to the mindset of the player in casuals, needless to say.

But oh well.
Teaching people the correct strategies and the best way to win is one thing.
Telling people not to use certain strategies and tactics because they are hard or "annoying" to beat is another.

When someone says a "proper" way to play is to not use a character to they're fullest potential that is what Im talking about.
 

MKB

Forum General Emeritus
BeRB said:
Do whatever you can to win. No such thing as cheap or lame.

If a player can beat you with little experience then you aren't as experienced as you thought because you have been outsmarted by an amateur. Maybe, I'm strange but i don't get why it's such a bad thing if they win they did the right thing. If that gets wins in MKII, Ima do it.
I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but this sums up my thoughts exactly. When I first started (seriously) playing MK2 a few years ago, I thought there was an unwritten code of ethics to be followed. Well guess what? Following that unwritten "code" will have you getting beat in certain situations. Sometimes you just have to do what it takes to win. There is no correct way to play a video game.

Nice guys finish last (especially in fighting games.)
 

X820

Noob
No one said anything about tactics beeing hard or annoying to beat, that's not the point.

Another example, a regular offline UMK3 tournament player showed me a video of him vs some other guy.

He was Lao and got a spin in the corner, instead of jk spin infinite wich we all can agree is the lamest way to win in UMK3 he went for the jp-dive-spin..

He missed and the fight continued, I asked him out of curiosity why he didn't just did the retarded jk-spin to win that round.

He then told me that he would rather go for the jp-dive variation and loose then to do a retardedly broken and cheap move.

Mind you, this was at an offline tournament, play to win or go home..

Again, it's all about the mindset of the player.

In online casual matches you get to pick who you do or do not play and if the topic starter chooses to not play someone who apparently enjoys playing like a robot (as I have before), that should be perfectly fine and no one should be telling him otherwise.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy heated matches as much as the next guy, but especially in MK2 things can get boring really quick (one sided game).

Who enjoys chasing someone around for 30 matches straight, not me that's for sure.
 

Dark_Rob

Champion
X820 said:
No one said anything about tactics beeing hard or annoying to beat, that's not the point.

Another example, a regular offline UMK3 tournament player showed me a video of him vs some other guy.

He was Lao and got a spin in the corner, instead of jk spin infinite wich we all can agree is the lamest way to win in UMK3 he went for the jp-dive-spin..

He missed and the fight continued, I asked him out of curiosity why he didn't just did the retarded jk-spin to win that round.

He then told me that he would rather go for the jp-dive variation and loose then to do a retardedly broken and cheap move.

Mind you, this was at an offline tournament, play to win or go home..

Again, it's all about the mindset of the player.

In online casual matches you get to pick who you do or do not play and if the topic starter chooses to not play someone who apparently enjoys playing like a robot (as I have before), that should be perfectly fine and no one should be telling him otherwise.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy heated matches as much as the next guy, but especially in MK2 things can get boring really quick (one sided game).

Who enjoys chasing someone around for 30 matches straight, not me that's for sure.
Just because someone attends offline tournaments does not mean they have the correct mentality to win.
I have friends, good friends actually, in the tournament community that have these same mental shackles holding them back.
One of them (whom I wont name) recently told me he would never use the corner jab infinite in UMK3 in a tournament match, ever. Even if it meant the difference between winning the match and losing. I asked him why and he his response was because its lame as hell and not honorable.
My response to him, "Honor is a fools prize, you may keep your honor, il take the win. If I had the chance to use the corner jab inf on you in tournament, rest assured I would."

BTW this player is exceptionally gifted and need only shed these few mental blocks he has holding him back to truly become one of the greats.
 

X820

Noob
That's the whole point Rob, at a tournament be it offline or online, do what ever it takes if you need to, there is no one in their right mind that could claim otherwise, a win is a win.

When playing online MK2 casuals it can get VERY boring and not all play to just win, see my point?

I'd prefer loosing to a far better player and have the best matches I've played in years, rather then dancing around each other with little action for over 30 matches in online casuals.
 

Dark_Rob

Champion
X820 said:
That's the whole point Rob, at a tournament be it offline or online, do what ever it takes if you need to, there is no one in their right mind that could claim otherwise, a win is a win.

When playing online MK2 casuals it can get VERY boring and not all play to just win, see my point?

I'd prefer loosing to a far better player and have the best matches I've played in years, rather then dancing around each other with little action for over 30 matches in online casuals.
In that regard I agree, which is why I dont play MK2 because the best strategies in that game often revolve around turtling. Like you I prefer UMK3 and the mayhem that goes with it.
 

X820

Noob
Dark_Rob said:
In that regard I agree, which is why I dont play MK2 because the best strategies in that game often revolve around turtling. Like you I prefer UMK3 and the mayhem that goes with it.
* off to run jab...


:p
 
Hey Dark Rob, I feel the real problem for me is that they are Not using the full potential of the character they pick, not the other way around. I suppose your right that there is no real proper way to play, but its more about common courtisy that if you CAN use the full potential of a character, then use it rather than treating your opponent like a complete moran, then having the cheek to complain when you use their own approach against them, because they had to leave their comfort zone to try get any result. As for spamming sais, did i win? yes i won, at first its fun because i didnt know better at the time, but then its gets boring n repetetive so i learned over time the full potential of the character. Overall its all about having fun, and i like to think an opponent i play win/lose had fun too, instead of spending 90 seconds a game playing cat and mouse.
 

BeRB

Mortal
drummistjoey said:
Hey Dark Rob, I feel the real problem for me is that they are Not using the full potential of the character they pick, not the other way around. I suppose your right that there is no real proper way to play, but its more about common courtisy that if you CAN use the full potential of a character, then use it rather than treating your opponent like a complete moran, then having the cheek to complain when you use their own approach against them, because they had to leave their comfort zone to try get any result. As for spamming sais, did i win? yes i won, at first its fun because i didnt know better at the time, but then its gets boring n repetetive so i learned over time the full potential of the character. Overall its all about having fun, and i like to think an opponent i play win/lose had fun too, instead of spending 90 seconds a game playing cat and mouse.
What if that is that char's full potential baiting is half the battle you just fall for it.
 

X820

Noob
BeRB said:
What if that is that char's full potential baiting is half the battle you just fall for it.
Well now that's just playing theory fighter imo, while (as always) there are more or less 2 sides with opposite oppinions kind of. The how it should be played vs the I would like more action in my matches.

All characters can be played offensively in this game, very well at that.

Good thing people can do whatever they want online, like moving on to the next opponent.
 
Well, baiting is a very good technique, id doubt it is half the battle with most of these players though as they would have 30 to 40 games to perform their plan B, when i crouched and did nothing, that was the giveaway that they really had no other alternative as to what to do next.....
 

BeRB

Mortal
X820 said:
Well now that's just playing theory fighter imo, while (as always) there are more or less 2 sides with opposite oppinions kind of. The how it should be played vs the I would like more action in my matches.

All characters can be played offensively in this game, very well at that.

Good thing people can do whatever they want online, like moving on to the next opponent.
How is that a theory baiting a player is a great strat in MK, You should have been doing some of that since MK1, Just because you play aggressively at all times doesn't mean you should that's just what you like to do and play. Dodging baited attacks is a rough battle
 
DCIguy said:
I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but this sums up my thoughts exactly. When I first started (seriously) playing MK2 a few years ago, I thought there was an unwritten code of ethics to be followed. Well guess what? Following that unwritten "code" will have you getting beat in certain situations. Sometimes you just have to do what it takes to win. There is no correct way to play a video game.

Nice guys finish last (especially in fighting games.)
Your definitely right DCIguy. You gotta do what it takes to win matches and if it means exploiting another characters weaknesses by what some may consider cheap... so be it. If your not playing to win what are you playing for.

I know he is not well liked around here. But Ill give credit where its due. Foozer is the KING of this. If Foozer has to spam sais to win a match you'll eat sais for 99 seconds hes not worried about hurt feelings hes worried about winning.

I learned that from Foozer. I was the same way, playing by some invisible code of ethics lol. When Im in a tournament and the MK2 gods decide to give me mileena against reptile ill sai spam the fuck outta them. Give me one good reason why I should jeopardize a free win and play like a gentleman?