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Do People Understand the Vanilla Versions of Games?

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
I want to take some time out to discuss something that's bugging me. Are people really having trouble understanding what the 'vanilla' version of a game is like? From the discussions I see and the things people say, it seems like no one's played the Month 1 version of a game before. There is constant QQ'ing.. But here's what you should expect from the vanilla edition of a new fighting game:

1) Early in the game's life, people will find the 2 or 3 most obviously strong characters and abuse them. It doesn't mean that people will stop playing these characters, but as time goes on, people level up, find tech, and learn matchups, more characters will start to move up the ranks and win.

When the game is first released, people try every character -- but whoever seems the most readily abused after a few weeks will begin to show up at a lot of tournaments. It's a normal process, and it's OK.

2) The game balance will be off. It's OK -- that's what happens in Vanilla games. Everything will not be perfect; some characters will be found to have exploitable tools that will put them above most of the cast; others will seemingly have no redeeming value.

However, to know just HOW unbalanced the game is, in favor of what characters, takes time and patience. You need to give things time to evolve; otherwise if you rebalance things according to everyone's Month 1 impression of how good some characters are, by month 2-3 everything evolves and the game is now completely unbalanced again. You now get smacked in the face by characters you weren't even worried about, and characters that were thought to be too strong and toned down cease to be threats at all.

This means that even when you absolutely know things will need to be adjusted, you must wait until the air clears and players reach more of their characters' full potential. Otherwise you will make costly mistakes that are ridiculed.

The game WILL be patched. It will be rebalanced. Damage will be adjusted; frames will be adjusted. But it isn't something you rush into unless you want a mess.

3) There will be bugs and other issues. It happens. No matter how well you test a game, things will creep out there on day 1 that you either didn't find, or were not able to take the time to fix due to prioritizing other things. It's ok, and many of these things will be corrected as time goes on. It's a natural part of a game's lifecycle.

So pause -- take a deep breath. Count to 174463464364153.. And realize that a brand new game will never show all of its true colors in the first month; things will evolve, changes will be made. Give it time and keep discussing things in a rational way.. And a few months from now we'll all be laughing at some of the things that were said back in May.

Vanilla is what it is.
 

MorbidAltruism

Get over here!
To answer the question of the original post... obviously not. I think it is readily apparent that we need this thread to cease unnecessary bickering. It seems like everyone ignores posts like yours in the middle of a thread. Hopefully with a whole thread dedicated for the purpose of educating people with little to no prior knowledge of the initial vanilla game will attenuate the problem at hand. Thanks. :16Bit
 

JaredL

Aww shit <REDACTED DUE TO FEELINGS> its Shapzam
I if I had an arrow code for every time someone made a post that smelled of circlejerk, fart sniffing and backslapping about how nerfs or buffs shouldn't be called for, I'd have a lot of arrow codes...
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
No, they don't, this generation of gamers sucks. I wanna hit everyone on the head, I don't even bother trying anymore.

Spoiled, whiny brats, that complain, and complain about DLC, yet they buy it every time, complain about anything they lose to.
This really isn't acceptable anymore

With the type of information and technology and players that are out there......... vanilla versions of games shouldn't be this bad.
Most of it is completely out of the developers control (dates, timing... whatev).... but at a certain point... mediocrity shoudln't be accepted in this form.

Edit: it isn't about being spoiled.... it is about learning from history.
 

ApertureBlack

The Only Player On The Wii U
Look at the flipside, some things are basically unviable and that's another reason why people complain
 

Briggs8417

Salt Proprietor of TYM
This really isn't acceptable anymore

With the type of information and technology and players that are out there......... vanilla versions of games shouldn't be this bad.
Most of it is completely out of the developers control (dates, timing... whatev).... but at a certain point... mediocrity shoudln't be accepted in this form.

Edit: it isn't about being spoiled.... it is about learning from history.
Why do you always say the most asinine things?
 

GrundyFox

I will spit on your tomb!
I'm not sure saying its vanilla is a blanket statement for justification. I myself like the game so I am not trying to be contentious, I am simply being honest from my point of view.
 

MorbidAltruism

Get over here!
I'm not sure saying its vanilla is a blanket statement for justification. I myself like the game so I am not trying to be contentious, I am simply being honest from my point of view.
It is justification. If you can name a vanilla version of a game without its fair share of problems I would be fairly enlightened. You are entitled to your opinion... but it isn't practical for a game to be perfect at release. The "back in the day" nonsense no longer applies because the industry has changed. :16Bit
 

cyke_out

Warrior
It is justification. If you can name a vanilla version of a game without its fair share of problems I would be fairly enlightened. You are entitled to your opinion... but it isn't practical for a game to be perfect at release. The "back in the day" nonsense no longer applies because the industry has changed.
Vanilla MvC2 was hype!;)
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
It is justification. If you can name a vanilla version of a game without its fair share of problems I would be fairly enlightened. You are entitled to your opinion... but it isn't practical for a game to be perfect at release. The "back in the day" nonsense no longer applies because the industry has changed.
Precisely. Obviously, it's better to learn the game enough before really talking about patches. But a lot of games back then had revisions to fix problems...but it was nowhere near as convenient as how things work today.
 

GrundyFox

I will spit on your tomb!
It is justification. If you can name a vanilla version of a game without its fair share of problems I would be fairly enlightened. You are entitled to your opinion... but it isn't practical for a game to be perfect at release. The "back in the day" nonsense no longer applies because the industry has changed.

You're basing your retort on some kind of bizarre presumption. In no way did I try to enlighten you or anyone, imply anything is ever released perfect, nor did anything akin to "back in the day" cross my mind. Yes, every game has its amount of things that don't fit - Sagat and Akuma being first to mind with SF4, however like with anything, if there are enough (or too many) numerous issues you simply can't give the blanket statement of "well it's only vanilla" and that'll somehow save it from ire.

An example of that would be Tekken vs Street Fighter. The game is far superior to its vanilla version but it has yet to truly recover from the damage its predecessor inflicted upon itself. The whole "ah its the first version" did virtually nothing to combat that. Thats my simple point. The game has a lot of strange issues (for brevity sake) that will in time be ironed out but also its core mechanics don't promote longevity to me.

But thats a whole other story.
 

MorbidAltruism

Get over here!
I'm not sure saying its vanilla is a blanket statement for justification. I myself like the game so I am not trying to be contentious, I am simply being honest from my point of view.
You're basing your retort on some kind of bizarre presumption. In no way did I try to enlighten you or anyone, imply anything is ever released perfect, nor did anything akin to "back in the day" cross my mind. Yes, every game has its amount of things that don't fit - Sagat and Akuma being first to mind with SF4, however like with anything, if there are enough (or too many) numerous issues you simply can't give the blanket statement of "well it's only vanilla" and that'll somehow save it from ire.

An example of that would be Tekken vs Street Fighter. The game is far superior to its vanilla version but it has yet to truly recover from the damage its predecessor inflicted upon itself. The whole "ah its the first version" did virtually nothing to combat that. Thats my simple point. The game has a lot of strange issues (for brevity sake) that will in time be ironed out but also its core mechanics don't promote longevity to me.

But thats a whole other story.
I was referring to the aspect of your statement that I have taken the liberty of bolding for you. Apparently you forgot you said it. What a bizarre assumption. :16Bit
 

GrundyFox

I will spit on your tomb!
And... apparently you forgot I addressed everything I meant and said further down the second message you quoted? What are you even going on about?
 

RWDY Nori

MK is kinda dope
This really isn't acceptable anymore

With the type of information and technology and players that are out there......... vanilla versions of games shouldn't be this bad.
Most of it is completely out of the developers control (dates, timing... whatev).... but at a certain point... mediocrity shoudln't be accepted in this form.

Edit: it isn't about being spoiled.... it is about learning from history.
You need thousands of people to thoroughly test anything. You think a tiny portion of developers and SOME top players were going to find everything? It's only your opinion the game is "this bad" it's not shared by most people but you're entitled to your opinion

History tells us gamers used to take the time to discover things and it was about winning and beating your friends/opponents senseless. Now people scream for a patch if they can't understand something, it's mind blowing how lazy the new generation is. Online has created this lazyness and it's not your fault but it's quite annoying to deal w/
 

MorbidAltruism

Get over here!
And... apparently you forgot I addressed everything I meant and said further down the second message you quoted? What are you even going on about?
I am not going on about anything. You asked why I was quoting you, I gave you a response. You don't get to berate me... then elaborate on what you meant... I responded to you before you addressed anything. :16Bit