Tech D3 vs Low Hitbox Characters, Standing 2 and You

[Knoterror]

So I touched a little bit on this in Beef's matchup thread, but I feel like it should be more widely known.

There are some low hitbox characters that 2 whiffs on either crouch blocking, neutral ducking or some variation of the two, and what a lot of people don't realize is that a D3 that hits a crouching low hitbox character that 2 would normally whiff on will generally allow standing 2 to hit mid.

On characters where this doesn't work, you can probably still confirm your D3 vs crouch and back dash into 224 to whiff punish a counterpoke attempt.

Below is a chart that details Sub's D3 on crouch hit versus every character in the game. I'm going over every character because some can be hit mid with 2 normally on crouch block or neutral crouch, but will NOT be hit with a followup 2 after a hit D3. On characters where 2 will hit mid sometimes (Johnny Cage), I'm still going to put no, as you should still approach the character as if 2 would whiff.

(Order is Select Screen, left to right)

Scorpion
2 Hits Crouch Block: Yes
2 Hits Neutral Crouch: Yes
2 Hits Mid after D3: Yes

Liu Kang
2 Hits Crouch Block: Yes
2 Hits Neutral Crouch: Yes
2 Hits Mid after D3: Yes

Kung Lao
2 Hits Crouch Block: No
2 Hits Neutral Crouch: No
2 Hits Mid after D3: Yes

Sub-Zero
2 Hits Crouch Block: Yes
2 Hits Neutral Crouch: Yes
2 Hits Mid after D3: Yes

Sindel
2 Hits Crouch Block: Yes
2 Hits Neutral Crouch: Yes
2 Hits Mid after D3: No

Ermac
2 Hits Crouch Block: Yes
2 Hits Neutral Crouch: No
2 Hits Mid after D3: Yes

Reptile
2 Hits Crouch Block: No
2 Hits Neutral Crouch: No
2 Hits Mid after D3: Yes

Kitana
2 Hits Crouch Block: No
2 Hits Neutral Crouch: No
2 Hits Mid after D3: No

Johnny Cage
2 Hits Crouch Block: No
2 Hits Neutral Crouch: No
2 Hits Mid after D3: Yes

Jade
2 Hits Crouch Block: Yes
2 Hits Neutral Crouch: Yes
2 Hits Mid after D3: Yes

Mileena
2 Hits Crouch Block: No
2 Hits Neutral Crouch: No
2 Hits Mid after D3: No

Nightwolf
2 Hits Crouch Block: Yes
2 Hits Neutral Crouch: Yes
2 Hits Mid after D3: Yes

Cyrax
2 Hits Crouch Block: Yes
2 Hits Neutral Crouch: Yes
2 Hits Mid after D3: Yes

Noob Saibot
2 Hits Crouch Block: Yes
2 Hits Neutral Crouch: Yes
2 Hits Mid after D3: Yes

Smoke
2 Hits Crouch Block: Yes
2 Hits Neutral Crouch: Yes
2 Hits Mid after D3: Yes

Sektor
2 Hits Crouch Block: No
2 Hits Neutral Crouch: Yes
2 Hits Mid after D3: Yes

Sonya
2 Hits Crouch Block: Yes
2 Hits Neutral Crouch: Yes
2 Hits Mid after D3: No

Jax
2 Hits Crouch Block: No
2 Hits Neutral Crouch: No
2 Hits Mid after D3: Yes

Kano
2 Hits Crouch Block: Yes
2 Hits Neutral Crouch: Yes
2 Hits Mid after D3: Yes

Stryker
2 Hits Crouch Block: Yes
2 Hits Neutral Crouch: Yes
2 Hits Mid after D3: Yes

Shang Tsung
2 Hits Crouch Block: Yes
2 Hits Neutral Crouch: Yes
2 Hits Mid after D3: Yes

Baraka
2 Hits Crouch Block: Yes
2 Hits Neutral Crouch: Yes
2 Hits Mid after D3: Yes

Kabal
2 Hits Crouch Block: Yes
2 Hits Neutral Crouch: Yes
2 Hits Mid after D3: Yes

Raiden
2 Hits Crouch Block: Yes
2 Hits Neutral Crouch: Yes
2 Hits Mid after D3: Yes

Kratos
2 Hits Crouch Block: Yes
2 Hits Neutral Crouch: Yes
2 Hits Mid after D3: Yes

Quan Chi
2 Hits Crouch Block: No
2 Hits Neutral Crouch: Yes
2 Hits Mid after D3: Yes

Cyber Sub-Zero
2 Hits Crouch Block: Yes
2 Hits Neutral Crouch: Yes
2 Hits Mid after D3: Yes

Skarlet
2 Hits Crouch Block: Yes
2 Hits Neutral Crouch: Yes
2 Hits Mid after D3: No

Kenshi
2 Hits Crouch Block: Yes
2 Hits Neutral Crouch: Yes
2 Hits Mid after D3: Yes

Rain
2 Hits Crouch Block: Yes
2 Hits Neutral Crouch: Yes
2 Hits Mid after D3: Yes

Freddy Krueger
2 Hits Crouch Block: Yes
2 Hits Neutral Crouch: Yes
2 Hits Mid after D3: Yes

 

[Seapeople]

Why wouldn't 2 hit mid against every character after d3?

 

[Knoterror]

I don't know but it doesn't work on Sindel, Sonya, Skarlet, Kitana and Mileena. Kit and Mil I can understand, but 2 hits mid normally on the other 3, just not after a D3, so it's weird. Might be possible with a quick dash in into 2.

Seapeople

 

[Knoterror]

I'm guessing its just something to do with their crouch hit animations putting them out of range.

 

[MashPotatoTower]

It's some advantage rule on getting hit going to crouch block. if the advantage is high enough you will have to "just" block a high while going into crouching
It's how jax players get small hitbox characters to block f4 1 without 1 whiffing.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

The second hit of 22 does not hit on the tenth frame..... it hits on the 26th, since the first 2 would be whiffing in this scenario, you must include its duration as well. You opponent can still easily poke you.

 

[Knoterror]

The second hit of 22 does not hit on the tenth frame..... it hits on the 26th, since the first 2 would be whiffing in this scenario, you must include its duration as well. You opponent can still easily poke you.

Good catch. Still, it seems like you could easily backdash into 22 from a D3 and whiff punish pokes.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

Good catch. Still, it seems like you could easily backdash into 22 from a D3 and whiff punish pokes.

Maybe but the point is that you do not get anything for free haha. Thats important.

 

[Qwark28]

Good catch. Still, it seems like you could easily backdash into 22 from a D3 and whiff punish pokes.

http://testyourmight.com/threads/using-224-to-whiff-punish-pokes.28416/

 

[Roko1985]

I don't know but it doesn't work on Sindel, Sonya, Skarlet, Kitana and Mileena. Kit and Mil I can understand, but 2 hits mid normally on the other 3, just not after a D3, so it's weird. Might be possible with a quick dash in into 2.

Seapeople

That happens even with other characters, not just Sub Zero.

 

[xQUANTUMx]

Isn't subs backslash ass?

 

[Knoterror]

Isn't subs backslash ass?

It works well enough.