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Cyrax or Cyber Sub-Zero; who is better overall?

F

Felix

Noob
I'd say they're even.

Cyrax:
-Better combos (a lot better)
-Better pokes (Cyber Sub-Zero's are terrible)
-Better long range


Cyber Sub-Zero:
-Better strings (Cyrax's aren't bad)
-Better sweep distance ability
-Better jump distance ability


Both share:
-Terrible wakeup game
-Same amount of good/bad matchups? (unsure)
-Special moves equal overall... Cyrax's: Bomb (x3)> Freeze bombs, Net > Freeze ball. Cyber Sub-Zero's: Parry and Divekick (x2) > Buzzsaw, Anti-Air, Slide > Reverse Kick (ragdoll basically pointless, should nearly always chose a free bomb over it)
-Good at getting out of corner pressure
-Anti-air capabilities (Cyrax has AA and net, Cyber Sub-Zero has 2 Divekicks and parry)
-About equal at hurting on a cornered opponent/keeping them cornered
-Both have exellent x-ray attacks


Not sure on:
-Who is better Vs: 1. Raiden and 2. Kung Lao?



Also. Whats this matchup? Probably 6-4 to Cyrax in my opinion because Cyber Sub-Zero would have a hard time getting in I imagine.
 
Lt. Boxy Angelman

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
Yellow trumps blue, although CSZ has some 5-star tools at his disposal.
If they ever remapped the grenades/made them work even close to as effectively as Cyrax's do, it'd be a whooooooole different story.
Fuck, I'd pick him up in a heartbeat. I've given him a few runthroughs, but the miniscule blast radius on the bombs drives me nuts.
 
JennyCage

JennyCage

t('.'t)
Not trying to be argumentative but how does Cyber have 5 star tools? His teleport is worse than Cyrax's, his slide and iceball recover slower than Sub-Zero/Reptile, his bomb inputs are on 3 instead of 4 making his mixups difficult when dashing in, and they have a bizarre rule to successfully freeze.

Cyber has a lot of tools but ain't none of them 5 star son.
 
Error

Error

DF2+R2
Cyber Sub-Zero is Cyrax's retarded, yet somewhat cooler little brother, there's no comparison.
 
Lt. Boxy Angelman

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
JennyCage said:
Not trying to be argumentative but how does Cyber have 5 star tools? His teleport is worse than Cyrax's, his slide and iceball recover slower than Sub-Zero/Reptile, his bomb inputs are on 3 instead of 4 making his mixups difficult when dashing in, and they have a bizarre rule to successfully freeze.

Cyber has a lot of tools but ain't none of them 5 star son.
Click to expand...
I just wish I had a stun gun divekick.

Fine, we'll call it 4 star tools. Really good, but too weighed down by his negatives to be GREAT great.
His teleport does blow hard, but his parry, when utilized properly, is fantastic. Vicious combos. Kick-kickidy-kick, and so forth.
He's a quality fighter, but was built with too many faulty parts to be tops, is what I mean to say.
Error pretty much said it right.
 
Lt. Boxy Angelman

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
Jenny speaks the truth. I don't know frame data, but it's definitely off by a little.
For being basically a Cyrax clone, I dont understand why, but c'est la vie.
 
NYCj360

NYCj360

i Use a modded cyber now
NariTuba said:
why do you say that? seems to me they are the same down to the animation... both unsafe. Has there been any discussion on this that I missed?
Click to expand...
Cyraxs teleport causes a wall that neatrulizes projectiles and stops most advancing moves once he dissapears and doesnt get hurt, cyber gets hit even after he dissapears and doesnt neatrulize anything.
 
6

69beastlyninja

Noob
Why are Cyber Sub's wakeup options bad? Slide is an okay wakeup sometimes. It would seem like his freeze parry would be a good wakeup too. What's wrong with using his parry for wakeup. I'm asking this because I haven't had a chance to play him much.
 
Rasenganfan2

Rasenganfan2

Noob
I've tried using Cyrax multiple times, yet I always fail. I find his combos difficult, due to timing, and his great ones need meter.

Cyber Sub's bombs aren't as good as Cyrax's, no doubt. They're good for pressure and mind-screw, nothing else. The bombs rules are quite simple, if retarded. Basically, if a bomb is released while the enemy is in hit-stun/block-stun, the bombs will simply knock-down. Otherwise, the bombs will freeze.

His bombs? They're good for keeping your opponent where you want them, so basically just used for the mind-screw/zoning. His EX bomb isn't much better, to be honest. Cyber Sub shoots 3 bombs, one of each range. This usually makes the enemy jump, so, coupled with an ice beam, they're frozen and ready for punishment. The bombs messing with his mixups? No doubt. I think that NRS mapped his bombs to 3 instead of 4 to keep from doing accidental slides. That's understandable. They should've just mapped his bombs to 1 or 2. No problem there. What I've learned to do to avoid an accidental bomb is simply incorporate a very small delay between a dash and 3. If you press 3 immediately after a dash, there's a mid-bomb, and you eat a combo. Feelsbadman.jpegamousprime

His teleport? Like good sir J360 said, the startup is longer and has little to no invincibility frames. Aside from that, it's the same. Also, I'm not even sure EX Tele has invincibility frames. That said, the only real time you should use EX Tele is to stop cross-ups if parry isn't doing the trick. Half of the time that I use his tele, I usually get hit by a projectile AFTER Cyber Sub is gone. The advantages his teleport have though are great. As soon as it's over, you can parry to punish opponents trying to punish you. When it's over, you can also go into Cyber Sub's amazing pressure game. Do his mix-ups, pressure them with the 21 string, etc..

His parry? Insta-shutdown the enemy's rushdown, so long as they don't do a poke. Even if they do a low combo starter, they'll eat the parry (IE: Liu Kang's b312). Just don't use it too much, as the enemy can learn to spot for it, and will, if intelligent, respond accordingly. The parry itself is one of Cyber Sub's best moves, as it's almost instant and does 8% damage. EX parry freezes the enemy in place, so you can get 20-ish damage out of them.

His ice blast? Not as good as either regular Sub's blast, or Robo-Cyrax's net. It has the same startup as Human Cyrax's net, travels as fast as Robo Cyrax's net and is slightly smaller than Human Sub's blast. The recovery time is the same as Human Cyrax's net. Has the same hold time as Cyrax's and Human Sub's non-EX projectiles. Best for use in combos. Use it sparingly outside of combos because: A.) Comparing to Cyrax, where it's OK to use nets frequently because of their gigantic nature and (if robo) quick recovery, Cyber Sub's blast has slower start-up, slower recovery, and is smaller B.) Comparing to Human Sub, whose blast has great startup, great speed and great recovery, Cyber Sub's is a letdown. His has more startup, slower speed, and more recovery. All-in-all, worst hold-type projectile. EX Blast is a beam. The beam has almost no startup, amazing speed, and little recovery. It's part of the 2 meter trap(IE: EX bombs, beam). Useful if your enemy is jumping and you need some damage. The beam can also be used to create an easy 35% combo with his low mixup.

His dive kick? A useful tool good for traveling the stage and dealing some decent damage. Does 8%. If blocked and the kick lands high, can only be punished with fast normals and specials. Blocked and hits low? Unpunishable. This is, by far, his most useful tool. EX Kick does 19% damage by itself

His wakeup options are rather limited. You could try wakeup parry. After a time or 2 of that, they'd learn. Try slide. Again, they learn.
 
Aboolayla

Aboolayla

Come At Me Bro
Ii dont get it. Charafters are completly diffrent if it the bombs than idk how theyre similiar. However cyrax is much better. anybody above me basically ended the thread theyre all correct
 
Rasenganfan2

Rasenganfan2

Noob
Cyrax is better? Hardly. Sure, he can deal unholy amounts of damage when he has meter, but he lacks mix-ups. That said, he makes up for it with his bombs and net strategy. Basically, throw a bomb, enemy jumps, net.
Cyber Sub is very situational. He's very much a rushdown character. With an easy 35% BnB, 21% low mix-up, 26% high mix-up, and a 1 bar 35% low combo, I'd say that he's hardly hurting for damage. Plus, his mix-ups both start with 3, so it's a guessing game: low or high?

Honestly, Cyrax may deal better damage and have a better mind-screw game, but they're both equal.
 
F

Felix

Noob
I think everyone is completly underrating Cyber Sub-Zero here, there is a comparison, he isn't that much worse than Cyrax. Maybe it's cause I'm not that good at MK yet, so at my level Cyber Sub seems pretty damn good. Also I'm not considering swapping characters so don't tell me to "stick with Cyrax" lol.

Also good job spotting that I forgot to mention that Cyrax has a better teleport, they're both quite bad though.
 
NariTuba

NariTuba

disMember
J360 said:
Cyraxs teleport causes a wall that neatrulizes projectiles and stops most advancing moves once he dissapears and doesnt get hurt, cyber gets hit even after he dissapears and doesnt neatrulize anything.
Click to expand...
The only practical use ive found to this weird Cyrax teleport property is stopping Sektors homing missile. Its about the only projectile in the game thats slow enough to react to with the teleport. If Sektor throws it out and rushes you, teleport at just the right time to make the missile hit the teleport aura. If you misstime it the missile will either hit you or continue to be on screen, pick up speed and turn towards you. Ive had Sektor hit the aura with teleport uppercut and remain in the air rolling as if it was blocked, also raiden superman... but these were by accident only, theres no way to do it on reaction to these moves or any projectiles in the game; which is why this odd property of Cyraxs teleport is rarely discussed. Do you know of any way to apply it?

As far as teleport startups I suppose we need frame data to be sure but Ill take the word of the players here that have experience with CSubz since i have none.
 
Rasenganfan2

Rasenganfan2

Noob
NariTuba said:
The only practical use ive found to this weird Cyrax teleport property is stopping Sektors homing missile. Its about the only projectile in the game thats slow enough to react to with the teleport. If Sektor throws it out and rushes you, teleport at just the right time to make the missile hit the teleport aura. If you misstime it the missile will either hit you or continue to be on screen, pick up speed and turn towards you. Ive had Sektor hit the aura with teleport uppercut and remain in the air rolling as if it was blocked, also raiden superman... but these were by accident only, theres no way to do it on reaction to these moves or any projectiles in the game; which is why this odd property of Cyraxs teleport is rarely discussed. Do you know of any way to apply it?

As far as teleport startups I suppose we need frame data to be sure but Ill take the word of the players here that have experience with CSubz since i have none.
Click to expand...
Wat? I thought that you were going to pick Cyber up. That post took an hour...
 
SektorCyrax

SektorCyrax

Apprentice
cyrax, it will always be cyrax

cyber sub is an incomplete character

if nrs put more design into cyber sub then he might be on par with cyrax

but as it stands Cyrax is the superior robot
 
F

Felix

Noob
SektorCyrax said:
cyrax, it will always be cyrax

cyber sub is an incomplete character

if nrs put more design into cyber sub then he might be on par with cyrax

but as it stands Cyrax is the superior robot
Click to expand...
How exactly is he incomplete? What design do they need to add to him?
 
Lou Kang

Lou Kang

Mortal
where di u search "What type of people are most likely drawn to this Mortal Kombat character" Im curious as what mine say
 
UsedForGlue

UsedForGlue

"Strength isn't everything"
Cyber Sub Zero cannot get damage unless he physically attacks the opponent, and has problems getting in safely, and without jumping.

Cyrax doesn't even have to move to make the opponent move. And has everything at his disposal.
 
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