Strategy - Demolition Current thoughts on demolition

[SidTheHaze]

So i've been using getting back into using demolition stance. My thoughts so far are:

• She uses a lot more run in this variation so you have to pay close attention to your stamina meter
• you can make all of your negative strings safe/plus on block.
• the wake n bake wake up move is really good and has a surprisingly big hitbox.
• 60+ frames to refill grenades makes me a little emo
• She can break any armor move on wake up in the game after a juggle ending in 2134 in the corner by throwing a close grenade and then jabbing so the jab and the grenade explosion come out at the same time. and blow up the armor.
• EX grenade call when you have no grenades is really good after a block string because they either have to hold the next mixup or try to jump and eat a njp.
• EX grenade throw is useless

Summary:
This variation is really good when you have grenades but when you don't have them your character can't really do much outside of ex drone call. You usually have to save your last grenade for getting your grenades back which sucks if your opponent breaks your combo. I have to do more labbing with this variation, i feel like it will be really good later in the game since its not easier to use than covert ops.


@FCP/EMP SCAR
@Espio
@jmt
@Anbu
@Kakashi
@lslick
@Slayhawk84
@Denzell
@Permafrost

 

[Alright RyRy]

No tag for me .

I haven't tried this variation out yet, but I agree with this one being good later in the games life.

 

[Shady]

I was labbing with this this weekend, and upclose grenade doesn't give you as much of an advantage as it says. I tried to frame test with block+jump and it doesn't seem like that DRASTIC of an advantage.

 

[RavenBlade]

Her grenades are so easy to block IMO. Perhaps they should have been more like cyrax bombs when they explode on the ground.

 

[LEGI0N47]

I have labbed with it but not taken it live. I don't think EX grenade is useless since you can get some pretty stout damage. But I also understand that grenades are her lifeline so you're probably looking at it from the perspective of why use them all when you can get decent damage without meter.

Personally I got frustrated with demo because I was getting inconsistent results with the launch height in the corner of EX grenade which I would use for the boosted corner damage since without them having two bars you should be able to get more after the combo ender.

But I agree that well placed grenades in the future may lead to some good mind games, mix ups, armor breaking opportunities.

 

[SidTheHaze]

No tag for me .

I haven't tried this variation out yet, but I agree with this one being good later in the games life.

i got you next time ryan

I was labbing with this this weekend, and upclose grenade doesn't give you as much of an advantage as it says. I tried to frame test with block+jump and it doesn't seem like that DRASTIC of an advantage.

if you want to be at advantage, you have to delay the detonation after you throw it out because the animation of you throwing the grenade out is like i think somewhere between 40-60 frames so if you blow up the grenade as soon as it comes out your still doing the animation of the grenade throw. So if you detonate the grenade toward the end or after the grenade throw animation you are at advantage but if you detonate at the earliest possible frame you are at disadvantage and full combo punishable.

 

[lslick]

I just made a comment about demolition in the general discussion lol....Going to read your findings and thoughts on it now lol

 

[Shady]

i got you next time ryan


if you want to be at advantage, you have to delay the detonation after you throw it out because the animation of you throwing the grenade out is like i think somewhere between 40-60 frames so if you blow up the grenade as soon as it comes out your still doing the animation of the grenade throw. So if you detonate the grenade toward the end or after the grenade throw animation you are at advantage but if you detonate at the earliest possible frame you are at disadvantage and full combo punishable.

Word. I'm still working out the timing after transitioning from Covert Ops.

 

[lslick]

So i've been using getting back into using demolition stance. My thoughts so far are:

• She uses a lot more run in this variation so you have to pay close attention to your stamina meter
• you can make all of your negative strings safe/plus on block.
• the wake n bake wake up move is really good and has a surprisingly big hitbox.
• 60+ frames to refill grenades makes me a little emo
• She can break any armor move on wake up in the game after a juggle ending in 2134 in the corner by throwing a close grenade and then jabbing so the jab and the grenade explosion come out at the same time. and blow up the armor.
• EX grenade call when you have no grenades is really good after a block string because they either have to hold the next mixup or try to jump and eat a njp.
• EX grenade throw is useless

Summary:
This variation is really good when you have grenades but when you don't have them your character can't really do much outside of ex drone call. You usually have to save your last grenade for getting your grenades back which sucks if your opponent breaks your combo. I have to do more labbing with this variation, i feel like it will be really good later in the game since its not easier to use than covert ops.


@FCP/EMP SCAR
@Espio
@jmt
@Anbu
@Kakashi
@lslick
@Slayhawk84
@Denzell
@Permafrost

I don't think ex grenade throw is useless. You can get very good corner carry at the expense of all your grenades and one bar. For example from midscreen you can do a something like 121~ex grenade throw, run, 121~arc kick which is like 30% and you got them all the way to the corner. This is of course using three grenades which might not be the best option midscreen. Also if you do grenade and jab at the same time on their wakeup, they can still beat you out if they have a low armored wakeup move like Sub's icy slide unfortunately since the jab will whiff. Then again, if you know they have that option, you can always d1 which won't get you much unfortunately either =[

 

[SidTheHaze]

I don't think ex grenade throw is useless. You can get very good corner carry at the expense of all your grenades and one bar. For example from midscreen you can do a something like 121~ex grenade throw, run, 121~arc kick which is like 30% and you got them all the way to the corner. This is of course using three grenades which might not be the best option midscreen. Also if you do grenade and jab at the same time on their wakeup, they can still beat you out if they have a low armored wakeup move like Sub's icy slide unfortunately since the jab will whiff. Then again, if you know they have that option, you can always d1 which won't get you much unfortunately either =[

I mean I'll take losing only 1 grenade while they stay in the corner and lose a bar of meter any day.

 

[lslick]

I mean I'll take losing only 1 grenade while they stay in the corner and lose a bar of meter any day.

Fair enough lol.....Using one bar and losing all grenades seems like a really bad trade when you think about considering you want meter to armor and break combos as well as break blockstrings you dont want to deal with.....Looks like Im going to have to sit in the lab with that variation some more

 

[learis1]

I'm new to this variation. What are safe situations to refill grenades if any? Also, when do you want to use frag grenades vs. stun grenades? Seems like a very fun variation but just does much harder what her military stance does so easily with regards to 50/50 conversions.

 

[Kakashi]

The anti-armor wakeup is very interesting

 

[YOMI DJT]

Yeah this one is going to take some time to be used to full potential. Gots to learn grenade management etc. Right now this is looking like her weakest variation but that could change. It's not useless just harder to use because the other variations offer more favorable moves in my opinion.

 

[Glass Sword]

As you know, you can safely get grenades out by ending a combo in 2134 . If you do it right none of the fast forward moving wakeups will get you. You can also refill after 112 with a grenade.
The problem is when you lond a mixup with no grenades you don't get a refill with out getting smacked (unless you get it off a leg grab and I am just bad). You can do b33212 to safely refill however. You sure as can't refill after a throw.
I feel that this is Sonya's "zoning" variation where you have to take a slower speed. By using grenades to take up space. The thing is that there is a limit and you have to refill... Sonya's non-covert ops are very strange in the way they play as Sonya feels kinda naked to me when she has no resources. I thought the variations where meant to supplement the character not define them.

 

[lslick]

As you know, you can safely get grenades out by ending a combo in 2134 . If you do it right none of the fast forward moving wakeups will get you. You can also refill after 112 with a grenade.
The problem is when you lond a mixup with no grenades you don't get a refill with out getting smacked (unless you get it off a leg grab and I am just bad). You can do b33212 to safely refill however. You sure as can't refill after a throw.
I feel that this is Sonya's "zoning" variation where you have to take a slower speed. By using grenades to take up space. The thing is that there is a limit and you have to refill... Sonya's non-covert ops are very strange in the way they play as Sonya feels kinda naked to me when she has no resources. I thought the variations where meant to supplement the character not define them.

You can end your combos in the corner with 2134 and reload your grenades if your opponent elects to do a wakeup that's 18 frames or slower but no one is going to do that lol. Sucks that 112 doesnt go into the animation if it's on a juggled opponent. If you do 112 and then grenade reload you can safely reload them. However, if you are too close to the corner, the opponent can punish you for it. I tested it with Mileena 7 frame roll, Jax 9 frame dash punch, Kenshi 13 frame spirit charge, Kitana 14 frame staff grab, Mileena 15 frame ex roll. Anything slower than 14 frames can't punish 112 into grenade reload if they are in the corner.

 

[FCP/EMP SCAR]

Demolition is one of her weakest variations and personally I don't feel it will get much deeper then the tech discussed in this thread, I wish her bombs were unblockable lol.

 

[lslick]

Demolition is one of her weakest variations and personally I don't feel it will get much deeper then the tech discussed in this thread, I wish her bombs were unblockable lol.

I think if they were unblockable, people would just cry lol...If I could make three changes to grenades, it would be these:
1. If grenade reload had faster recovery, that would be great. At least something around the lines of drones recovery, maybe slightly more, it wouldnt be so bad

2. If grenades didn't leave you so negative if you detonate yourself =[

3. Maybe change where the grenades hit when you detonate it. For example, if the grenade is touching the ground when you blow it up, it could hit low. If it's in the air, then it would count as mid.

*I think if she had any of those 3, it would make the variation at this moment better. A man can only hope right

 

[FCP/EMP SCAR]

So at casuals last night we had a mini bracket tournament amongst the crew and I pretty much ran demolition all night, definitely made me think about some things, still think its her weakest of the 3 but was pretty effective in the neutral when people tried to counter poke my pressure, strings into delayed stun bombs n regular bombs were pretty good.

Sub Zero Matchup (New Tech)
So in the sub zero matchup sonyas demotion bombs are pretty damn good, they have double active hit box it seems when it comes to clone, which mean I can throw a bomb and it will break ice clone, but even after it breaks ice clone it remains on screen and I can detonate it to shock sub, so its killing 2 birds with 1 stone! , I don't have video, but if go into the lab u will see what I mean

 

[MsMiharo]

This variation needs to be able to restock more safely and for frags to be + on block.

 

[Permafrost]

Is there any good use for her Boomer? The last hit doesn't come out during juggles.

 

[MsMiharo]

Made this concept video for demolition

 

[MsMiharo]

also corner stuff

 

[Alphabattack]

Does anyone know why this happened? Is it some odd glitch or just a hitbox thing because of the distortion on the move?

 

[Orbit Aquary]

Definitely the worst variation out of the three. Still pretty good for combos though. EX grenades can actually be used for combos to deal some extra damage, but it's not something I would recommend doing. I really feel like they need to buff this variation, because I don't see why I would choose this variation when there is Covert Ops and Special Forces. At least make the grenades a low attack when they explode on the ground to add some mixup options, which both covert ops and special forces has.