Combos feel tedious

[TectonicSuperPlates]

I felt like this was the best thread to ask this question.

I love fighting games, but I have always been a casual player. Never really cared to dive into the big time combo strings and timing focus and all that jazz. I just thought it was fun to button mash and hopefully pull out a win. And if I did, well that was fantastic.

When I began playing Injustice and I joined the TYM community, I wanted to put in an effort to try and get better. To stop button mashing and actually learn how to play the game. Learn the technicality of the game. Learn the characters and how they work. All in all, I wanted to become a better player because I enjoyed Injustice and I wanted to put in the time and effort to get better.

However, the more and more I try to learn the big time combos, the more time and work I put into it, the more that work feels like a chore than a fun experience. It doesn't feel like I am rewarding myself putting the time into practicing these combos. It feels like, if I want to stay relevant in this game, I need to learn these combos.

It feels more like a task that must be completed. And when I feel like I have progressed, that I have actually learned something, there is someone out there better than me who reminds me that I have learned nothing. Or moreso, that my time that I put into trying to learn these combos feels like it was wasted. That I didn't progress anywhere.

I'm sure a lot of you, when you first entered into fighters, probably thought or felt the same way I do. Any tips on what I can do to make the experience feel more fun than just a tedious and daunting task? Because that's how I feel right now when trying to learn and practice these combos.

I'm not gonna say that I don't think I have progressed at all, but I will say that that progression felt very tedious. And if I feel like I am forcing myself to learn combos just to stay relevant in this game, to be able to play others online, I don't know how much more enjoyment I will get out of the game.

I'm sure there is nothing that someone does(perhaps a job to put food on the table), that if it feels tedious to them, they won't continue to do it. Especially something like a hobby. Forcing yourself to accomplish something... it just, it doesn't feel right. You want to accomplish something because it is fun and rewarding. Because you want to do it. Not because it feels mandatory to do it. And I want to learn these combos, but it feels more mandatory to learn them than just learning them because I want to learn them. You get me? And, in general, if you feel like forcing yourself to try and accomplish something just because you feel like you have/need to, your enthusiasm and input to try and accomplish it dwindles slowly but surely.

--

tl;dr - How do I make learning combos in Injustice feel more fun than just a tedious task to stay relevant in the game and against other players?

 

[CrimsonShadow]

This is going to sound dumb, but if trying to get the entire combo down is biting off more than you can chew, try adding 1 or 2 hits a day. Most of the BnB combos aren't too terribly long; so if you take it 1-2 hits at a time, before you know it you'll have them down. Don't force it; just take it at a slow gradual pace and keep adding on bit by bit until you feel comfortable.

Eventually this stuff will be a lot easier, and you won't even worry much about learning combos. And the payoff will be big; it'll add a lot of damage to your game.

Don't try to learn 50 combos at oone; take 1, or 2. Start with easy ones.

By the way, who do you play?

 

[TectonicSuperPlates]

By the way, who do you play?

I normally play Superman, but I have been trying to learn Deathstroke and Sinestro as well.

But truthfully, I don't have a solid main yet. But yeah, Superman is my most played character.

 

[Dark_Rob]

Your focusing on a small part of the overall picture. Combos are not the be all, end all of almost any fighting game, including this one. While learning how to do combos is important so you can get decent damage when the opportunity presents itself. Learning HOW to make the opportunity present itself is much more important.

However, you didnt ask about the big picture, you asked about combos, so heres what Il say on it.

The first thing I feel I should point out is there are different types of combos. Theres the kind of combos you will see in combo videos, such as the ones you will see from guys like Check or Tyler Lantern, and then there are the type of combos you will see in real matches.
Im not taking a shot at combo vid artists here, in point of fact, it takes a tremendous amount of skill, timing and practice to do what they do. So much so, that very little of what they do is usable in the high pressure situation of a real match due to the complexity and timing involved. But theres more to it than that. Combo vids tend to be made to show the very limits of the games engine and what can be done. They go for max damage at the expense of alot or sometimes all meter. They are meant to show whats possible within the engine, not whats best to do in a real match.

In a real match, especially in this game you have to balance the damage you get from a combo with alot of other issues. How much meter do you have? How much can you afford to burn on this combo? Is it worth it? Can you get almost the same or a little less damage meterless? Meter is life in this game. Its as important, if not more so than your life bar. You need it for wagers,pushblocks,meter burning special moves, MBB3/F3, meter burning interactables, etc etc. As you can see you need meter for alot of stuff in this game.

What Im getting at through all this is you really shouldnt be trying to develop these big meter wasting giant combos because in this game honestly, it will work against you. On average double meter burning will often only get you anywhere between 6 and 10% more damage than the 1 bar version would. That 7 or 8% isnt worth that extra bar unless your sure its going to end the match.

Simple meterless and 1 bar combos are often the best route in this game. It gets you decent damage while at the same time preserves your meter for any of the other myriad of uses it needs to be saved for. Most meterless and 1 bar combos dont take alot of practice to get down. Im sure there are plenty of 4 bar holy shit look at that combo vids out there, and the ones Ive seen , yea Im impressed to. But its not what you need to be doing in a real match.

Learn the simple combos first. If you can get between 20% to 25% meterless on average, or say 30% to 35% for 1 bar. your doing just fine. Start simple, and keep it simple. You dont want to be worrying about executing 40 hit 3 bar combos that only do 45% and that youll blow all your meter on and then your opponent will get it all back when they clash and win because you burned all your meter anyway.

 

[TectonicSuperPlates]

However, you didnt ask about the big picture, you asked about combos, so heres what Il say on it.

I thought that combos were the big picture. That the key to this game, not only in understanding your opponent, was to also know how to effectively execute your own characters combos in order to beat your opponent. To understand your character and use him properly.

Combos are so important in fighting games, how could I not think it is the big picture?

If not, what is the big picture?

 

[Dark_Rob]

I felt that combos were the big picture. That the key to this game, not only in understanding your opponent, was to also know how to effectively execute your own characters combos in order to beat your opponent. To understand your character and use him properly.

Combos are so important in fighting games, how could I not think it is the big picture?

If not, what is the big picture?

They are a part of the big picture but certainly not the whole picture, or even the biggest part of it. So many things go into it besides combos. Spacing, footsies(albeit they are different in this game then others, but nonetheless, still present)stage usage, meter management, trait usage, etc etc.

As I said being able to get damage is important, but it must be balanced with everything else I mentioned in my previous post. As a new player, Im sure getting whacked by some 3 bar 30 hit combo feels intimidating and makes it seems like being able to do that is the key to the game. But think about how much meter your opponent used to do that, think about how much meter it built for you and now he has very little, or none. Your options are now infinitely greater than his because he blew his load on one combo. By using your meter sparingly, you will be able to get decent damage, but still preserve your meter to keep you in the fight without being at to much of a meter disadvantage. By burning none or only 1 bar on a smaller combo you preserve your ability to get more smaller combos more often, thereby getting more damage over the long run.

I dont know who you play, I use Green Lantern. Generally speaking if I use trait in a combo I wont use meter, and if I use meter in a combo then I wont use trait. This way I always have one or the other available when the opportunity presents itself. On average I get between 22% and 32% per combo. Which is just fine.

 

[CY MasterHavik]

here's the thing.....you wanna win? Combos are the way to go... sometimes. Not every character in this game or other games are combo heavy. For example Doomsday is all oki and maybe one or two combos. Heck every grappler in Fg history is mroeso landing their throws than doing long combos.

 

[Mt. Mutombo]

Don't listen to this guy...combos aren't the way to go if you wanna win, this aint marvel. Tell that to doomsday players.

Play smart, half of the time the combos you practice on training mode you don't get to use in real matches. Try to learn on reaction combos, what's the best combo for a punish, an AA combo and an air-to-air combo. That's why a lot of people or at least competitive players don't give a crap about what sort of combos Check or Tylerlantern do, yeah they're nive eye candy but 90% of them are either situational as fuck, highly impractical or use like 8 bars of meter.

Rely on outsmarting your opponent and just learn the combos you need, a good AA one and one for full combo punishing. That's all.

 

[The Gabriel]

No trying to be mean but perhaps fighting games just aren't for you. Injustice has the easiest combos (execution-wise) to learn of any fighter I've ever played in 20 years. It is an overall very low execution barrier game (nothing wrong with that) that you really shouldnt be having much of a problem with.

 

[Alien Substance]

No trying to be mean but perhaps fighting games just aren't for you. Injustice has the easiest combos (execution-wise) to learn of any fighter I've ever played in 20 years. It is an overall very low execution barrier game (nothing wrong with that) that you really shouldnt be having much of a problem with.

It's different for everyone.

For Tectonic, it's tough. For you, it's hella easy.

 

[The Gabriel]

It's different for everyone.

For Tectonic, it's tough. For you, it's hella easy.

Hence why I said maybe fighting game weren't for him, considering he's finding a game with such a low execution barrier so tough.

 

[Alien Substance]

Hence why I said maybe fighting game weren't for him, considering he's finding a game with such a low execution barrier so tough.

I actually find I:GAU's execution barrier to be less lenient than MK9's.

 

[The Gabriel]

I actually find I:GAU's execution barrier to be less lenient than MK9's.

Yes...I was obviously referring to non-NRS games...

 

[TectonicSuperPlates]

It's different for everyone.

For Tectonic, it's tough. For you, it's hella easy.

Let me give an example.

Deathstroke. An opening up combo that I do.

b1 + u2 into d2. It's pretty much a juggle with an anti-air kick that keeps your opponent airborne.

Following that there are options. Now this is where the trickiness starts to kick in. Your options become open for combo execution. But which is the right combo to perform? Which one should you do?

You could go into 3, 2, 3, 1. A good follow-up combo. Or, you could go into 1, 2, 3. Or into 2, 3, 1. And there's all of these different varieties that you have to learn and master in order to effectively be able to combo your opponent.

But what about the outcomes of those combos? What can your opponent do after you perform them?

The fact is, there's really no one right answer which is the right combo to perform. And that's where my issue kicks in. (I don't think there really is any possible way to know what your opponent is going to perform in response, so let's not really focus on that point.)

It's almost as if the game is telling you "Look, you have all of these options. And each one of these options you need to know, you need to know how and when to execute them, or you won't be able to combo your opponent."

And it just becomes this massive flood of information that I feel like I have to study the freakin' video game just to understand it. I am not saying that having variety to choose from is bad, but you need to know that variety. You need to master that variety. Being predictable in a fighting game is a sure-fire way to lose the match. Hell, I know. I have exploited that. I remember when I fought a Deathstroke as Superman, and the dude kept jumping a lot to try and get in. I lost our first match. But what did I do? He became predictable, because in our next match he did the same thing. And I learned and adapted. Rising grab easily took care of that. And I won the next match.

Could he have learned other combos? Sure. But what felt most comfortable to him? Was jumping comfortable for him? I like jumping into overheads. It's a good first hit. But are there other options that I can do? Other options I can learn and perform? Am I forced to learn them so I don't become too predictable to my opponent?

Let's be honest here. Fighting games involve a lot of memorization. Pressing b1, b2, b3, respectively, each of those executions can set you up to perform a combo. Or a juggle. Or whatever. The point is, you need to learn each one of those button executions and know what they do and what are your options after them.

It's a lot to memorize. A lot of information in fighting games to memorize. But if you don't know them, you can't progress. You can't become better. And that's the point I am trying to make.

You need to know them. You need to know what each one of those buttons does, and you need to know what are your best options after performing those inputs. And if you have 5 best options, you need to learn and know every single one of those options, and what are the outcomes of those options.

And it continues. You can't stick to one combo and just learn and practice that combo over and over. Why? You become predictable.

It becomes a daunting task of learning the combos not because you want to, but because you need to.

 

[The Gabriel]

I don't think the word combo means what you think it means...

 

[Red Reaper]

I thought that combos were the big picture. That the key to this game, not only in understanding your opponent, was to also know how to effectively execute your own characters combos in order to beat your opponent. To understand your character and use him properly.

Combos are so important in fighting games, how could I not think it is the big picture?

If not, what is the big picture?

To reply to your original post. When I first started it was with MK9; I decided I wanted to get better. I kontinuously saw improvement, because I kept trying, asking questions and applying what I learned. The first eye opener was frame data, seeing moves by their frames was my first step. (Frames are just a unit of measure like Seconds... It's just that Seconds are too slow.)

Like you, I started with kombos because that's what casual players generally see as the "wow" factor... "He just did a 60% kombo! He's really good"... etc.

The way I found it most enjoyable was by practicing the kombos while listening to music. Then, after hours of practice, when I felt I had them down enough, I moved on to arcade mode where I would just try to land the kombos and make sure I had them down to a certain extent (not necessarily kompletely down). If I noticed I kept dropping them at a certain part then I'd go back to practice mode again.

Like Sports, or other kompetitive games, the player has to put in effort to kompete against better players. It wasn't easy for me to learn, but I was motivated. I wouldn't expect it to be easy for a beginning casual player, but that's where motivation komes in. Just like with playing an instrument, you kan't expect to be doing intricate things like guitar solos without practice. You have to learn to learn to take losses and my main mindset was simply to just get better. I knew from the start that I would lose and this was before I even developed the play to win mindset.

Just keep this in mind... The most rewarding things are often the hardest.

PS: My prideful mindset wasn't really of hindrance to me before because I thought my characters "Ermac" and "Sektor" were fair and before I didn't really know about match ups varying greatly. I thought everything just depended on the player and if I lost, it meant that I just needed to get better. So every time I would go back and do so, arm myself with knowledge and practice.

 

[Zyphox]

Let me give an example.

*snip*

okay i'll be honest i read like the first couple of lines but i'll help out with the options off of statement. there are specific combo's called BnB's or bread and butter combos, find them, learn them, this is the go to combo/s that will be used in situations ussually when you punish or land a hit. with deathstroke they have his BnB's in a thread on the deathstroke forums, and i know you said combos were tedious but make theses BnB's muscle memory, when the opportunity presents its self you can execute one and get your damage and maybe a set up afterwards. i use the flash and i know my BnB's by heart and muscles memory for every situation, off a low start high starter, to punish lantern's lift, or deathstroke sword spin, offa cross up, you name it, and i took the time to learn when to use trait and when not to in combos. i pay attention to my opponents life bar. my BnB usually do 60% damage and above because am swag like that but if he has only like 30% left then i'll just use a 42% no trait one bar combo instead and save for next round or if they clash. this is all the basic stuff you need to know for your character, my suggestion....pick one character and stick with him until you are able to learn all his combos and BnB's and preform them in game at will, this will help you out tremendously with over knowledge of the game and adaptation to learning a new character if you choose to.

 

[Drake7]

Let me give an example.

*snip*

Perhaps fighting games aren't for you. If you find it daunting to do combos, you'll find it even moreso when you have to make reads, assess situations, see weaknesses in opponents' play and exploit it as well as learn matchups.

You gotta take it one step at a time though, you can't simply memorize every combo and become better immediately. You have to play a lot of games to see what works, what doesn't and move on from there. As someone said above, in the end the combos aren't even the big picture.

Keep at it. If you find it no longer as fun and/or rewarding, it's probably time to move onto something else.

 

[DownfouralitY]

I don't think the word combo means what you think it means...

Then explain to him what it means. Don't be a dick.

 

[Red Reaper]

Let me give an example.

b1 + u2 into d2. It's pretty much a juggle with an anti-air kick that keeps your opponent airborne.

Anti-Air: means An attack on the ground that hits someone out of the air. Superman's "Rising Grab" is an example of this because it is input on the ground and hits them out of the air. Deathstroke's B1 U2 is a launcher not an Antir-Air.

You could go into 3, 2, 3, 1. A good follow-up combo. Or, you could go into 1, 2, 3. Or into 2, 3, 1. And there's all of these different varieties that you have to learn and master in order to effectively be able to combo your opponent.

It's almost as if the game is telling you "Look, you have all of these options. And each one of these options you need to know, you need to know how and when to execute them, or you won't be able to combo your opponent."

As a starting point it's probably best to learn one kombo for each starter. That's what I did when I first started in MK9. Over time, once you get komfortable you kan change to different enders, based on the match up and situation.

You need to know them. You need to know what each one of those buttons does, and you need to know what are your best options after performing those inputs. And if you have 5 best options, you need to learn and know every single one of those options, and what are the outcomes of those options.

And it continues. You can't stick to one combo and just learn and practice that combo over and over. Why? You become predictable.

It becomes a daunting task of learning the combos not because you want to, but because you need to.

That's why people tend to stick to one character and "Main" that character. That way, you only need to learn that character's kombos and strategies and not bombard yourself with too many characters.

 

[Alien Substance]

Yes...I was obviously referring to non-NRS games...

Hmm?

No trying to be mean but perhaps fighting games just aren't for you. Injustice has the easiest combos (execution-wise) to learn of any fighter I've ever played in 20 years. It is an overall very low execution barrier game (nothing wrong with that) that you really shouldnt be having much of a problem with.

Doesn't ring anything of "obviously referring to non-NRS games" to me.

*snip*

I think you may be straining yourself the wrong way here, Tectonic. You don't need to learn all these combos. You may only need a select several combos, around two for each situation. Being predictable in the way you combo your opponent is mostly irrelevant.
It's the way you try getting into the combo that matters here, and where you must not be too predictable in.

Take that match you had versus a Deathstroke player: he tried getting into them combos by jumping repeatedly. You adapted to his predictability and punished him for it, making his combos irrelevant until he learns to try getting in differently.

>Memorizations.
Of course. Once you have the memory down consistently, these combos will become second-nature to your character of choice (until you get to the input latency online, heh).

Doesn't mean you have to know everything there is to know in a fighting game, but most of it, and understand how they work.

If you have five best options, and one of them has the same result as another one or two, maybe just extra damaging by a percentage or three but harder to execute, you don't need to remember that one.

 

[exyle]

Play green arrow.

 

[Enigma642]

I had the same problem with mk9. It was my first fighting game I took seriously. By the time I has played for 6 months or so, and had learned the bread and butter combos for 3 or 4 characters, it got to where I could learn any combo in a matter of minutes.

Starting from scratch in Injustice day 1 was challenging because there wasn't bread and butter combos u could look up on TYM. So I had to try to find some myself. Now that I'm used to the injustice combo system, amd there is bread and butters aplenty, I'm back to learning combos in 5 mins again.

Not sure what all this means but that was my experience with combos.

Also worth mentioning, online can screw with your mind. There is a technique to learning combos that will allow u to perform them online or offline and in any amount of input lag. It took me a long time to realize that I needed to learn my combos based on timing rather than onscreen cues. Not sure if that is something that is confusing u but watch out for that.

 

[Celerity]

Let me give an example.

Deathstroke. An opening up combo that I do.

b1 + u2 into d2. It's pretty much a juggle with an anti-air kick that keeps your opponent airborne.

Following that there are options. Now this is where the trickiness starts to kick in. Your options become open for combo execution. But which is the right combo to perform? Which one should you do?

You could go into 3, 2, 3, 1. A good follow-up combo. Or, you could go into 1, 2, 3. Or into 2, 3, 1. And there's all of these different varieties that you have to learn and master in order to effectively be able to combo your opponent.

But what about the outcomes of those combos? What can your opponent do after you perform them?

The fact is, there's really no one right answer which is the right combo to perform. And that's where my issue kicks in. (I don't think there really is any possible way to know what your opponent is going to perform in response, so let's not really focus on that point.)

It's almost as if the game is telling you "Look, you have all of these options. And each one of these options you need to know, you need to know how and when to execute them, or you won't be able to combo your opponent."

And it just becomes this massive flood of information that I feel like I have to study the freakin' video game just to understand it. I am not saying that having variety to choose from is bad, but you need to know that variety. You need to master that variety. Being predictable in a fighting game is a sure-fire way to lose the match. Hell, I know. I have exploited that. I remember when I fought a Deathstroke as Superman, and the dude kept jumping a lot to try and get in. I lost our first match. But what did I do? He became predictable, because in our next match he did the same thing. And I learned and adapted. Rising grab easily took care of that. And I won the next match.

Could he have learned other combos? Sure. But what felt most comfortable to him? Was jumping comfortable for him? I like jumping into overheads. It's a good first hit. But are there other options that I can do? Other options I can learn and perform? Am I forced to learn them so I don't become too predictable to my opponent?

Let's be honest here. Fighting games involve a lot of memorization. Pressing b1, b2, b3, respectively, each of those executions can set you up to perform a combo. Or a juggle. Or whatever. The point is, you need to learn each one of those button executions and know what they do and what are your options after them.

It's a lot to memorize. A lot of information in fighting games to memorize. But if you don't know them, you can't progress. You can't become better. And that's the point I am trying to make.

You need to know them. You need to know what each one of those buttons does, and you need to know what are your best options after performing those inputs. And if you have 5 best options, you need to learn and know every single one of those options, and what are the outcomes of those options.

And it continues. You can't stick to one combo and just learn and practice that combo over and over. Why? You become predictable.

It becomes a daunting task of learning the combos not because you want to, but because you need to.

Based on the length of this post, you are clearly overthinking things, and it's interfering with your ability to make decisions during gameplay.

1. It's not possible to play fighting games perfectly. The best players in the world don't even come close to perfection. There are always going to be bad choices, bad reads, dropped inputs. You need to stop worrying about playing perfectly when (no offense) you currently aren't even playing decently.

2. Learning what your normals (in Injustice, that means strings) and special moves do. Yes, you're right, that's the most important thing. Once you get that down, your mind becomes much clearer, because you don't have to think about your options. Sticking with one character will help you a lot in this regard. To start out, just learn what your best strings are and use those exclusively, and add new ones slowly over time. Pretend your character has only a few options and play them very linearly until you get used to it. Even I do this when learning a new character.

3. Combos - it doesn't even sound like you're having difficulty executing combos, you just need to work on hitconfirming and getting the optimal BnBs into your muscle memory. Honestly, Injustice is really easy when it comes to combos. You can learn 2-3 routes and and apply minor modifications depending on the situation. Who cares if it's 2% less than the optimal version, just learn the most common combo routes for your character and use variations of those all of the time until you get your head straight.

4. Suck it up. You're a beginner. There's nothing wrong with that. Acknowledge it and accept that it's going to take hard work to get better, and not just some theorycrafting on a forum. Is it a chore? Maybe, but it's also a road of learning and self-improvement which will enrich your gaming experience. Plenty of these guys have spent tens of thousands of hours to get where they are, you're not going to catch up overnight. Just get out there, play a lot, stick to one character, and be comfortable with making mistakes and learning from them.

 

[Unkultured]

...You can't stick to one combo and just learn and practice that combo over and over. Why? You become predictable.

It becomes a daunting task of learning the combos not because you want to, but because you need to.

Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 says otherwise.

Spoiler

I'm not being hostile or rude in any way right now. Just trying to help you out.

But how can you be predictable with Combos?

Combos aren't predictable. The way you play, can get/be predictable.

I agree with Alien Substance's quote.

I think you may be straining yourself the wrong way here, Tectonic. You don't need to learn all these combos. You may only need a select several combos, around two for each situation. Being predictable in the way you combo your opponent is mostly irrelevant.
It's the way you try getting into the combo that matters here, and where you must not be too predictable in.

What's the point in knowing/learning/practicing every single Combo there is, if you can't even land ONE on your opponent?

Without proper Fundamentals and a real grasp on the Fighting Game(s) itself/themselves, how you do expect to land those Combos at all?

The other posts in this Thread are saying the same thing.

Again...combos don't matter, if you can't even do them on your opponents.

Learn your BnBs and everything else that's important.

You are overthinking things.