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Strategy Catwoman Pros and Cons

KH StarCharger

Kombatant
Before I start with the Pros and Cons Let's just start with an overview of Ms. Kyle. This character is an outright menace in the right hands. She's difficult to master but once anyone gets her tools down, they can cause any character hell. She relies on her powerful frame traps and her ground game to just gash her opponents to shreds once she finds an opening. However, there are certain aspects of her game that can leave her pretty wide open as well. Some of which are outside of her control at the moment. So for anyone wanting to learn the kitty cat, keep these advantages and disadvantages in mind.

Pros:
1) She has an i6 punishing normal that can lead to big damage
2) Her hitbox is fairly low compared to the rest of the cast and she can work wonders with that .
3) Outstanding combos that can led to either big damage or wicked mixups.
4) Four strings that leave her a plus advantage that can range from +1 to +3
5) Unbelievably good Oki game off of a hard knockdown
6) Sustainable vortex pressure when she gets an opponent in the corner (thanks to the phantom crossups)
7) A low hard knockdown normal (whip trip DF3) that reaches 3/4 of the screen
8) Her trait can be a fully invincible wake up reversal
9) Second to none overhead to low game to keep people guessing
10) Safe mid hitting special move in her cat claws
11) Cat Dash can cover full screen with meter burn and has a hit of armor to it.
12) Jumping 2 can really control some space both in air and on the ground for her and is a primary tool of hers for getting in while in the air.
13) Unclashable F3 and B3's when she uses her combos leads to both big damage and untechable setups for vortex pressure without having to spend meter. (if you didn't have to spend it already with an armored overhead or stage transit)

That's a good list of positives and with what comes next, she needs every ounce of them to make up for this:

Cons:

1) Unlike most of the cast, her stage transit and her F3 don't leave her at advantage on block
2) Her playstyle can force people to play very unpatiently against zoners
3) Some of her most reliable followups from a jumping 1 (such as b2, b1, st1, etc.) can be stuffed with d1's
4) She has no way of getting damage on an opponent from full screen without having to use her meter for a cat dash which is full combo punishable on block and can only absorb one hits for a limited time.
5) Below average movement and very floaty jump arc makes her easy to anti air or keep at bay for some characters
6) Vortex pressure can be sustained at midscreen mainly by using meter; a resource that CW has a hard time building since she has no projectile or long distance attack as mentioned in con #4.
7) Her anti airs are very poor due to the poor starting time and or priority of her D2 (14 frames), St3 (13 frames), and her anti air whip (15 frames).
8) Her Evade is too slow to really be used effectively and her low evade's command (even with good practice) is tough to implement in combat. What's worse is that there is no really big gain in meter by using it even on an evaded projectile.
9) Her cat stance can be poked out of during a block string if one get's predictable in their use of it during a block string.
10) Start up times on her specials in general holds her back in many respects if one wants to react to a certain move.
11) Outside of using it as a reversal, her trait is fairly pathetic in in it's uses since it can be pushblocked (if you want to go for chip), can be clashed, and it doesn't enhance her overall game play in a gamebreaking way at all.

From a distance, the cons seem to make her look like a character that isn't much to fear. Although, when you take a look at how her pros compliment her cons and vice versa, the only way to know is to use the character personally and find out how she is for yourself. Overall, she is very time consuming to learn all of the ins and outs and her strings commands take some getting used to, but she is extremely rewarding to play with once all of those basics have been practiced and mastered. With the game being out for all of a month thus far, much more tech has yet to be discovered, but considering how far the community has come with CW, I believe the best is yet to come. So overall analysis, yes she is a good character and yes she is a character that can be self reliant at tournaments. Just remember this for any matchup: All she needs is ONE hard knockdown and the rest will fall into place. Let me know what ya'll think of this list and feel free to add to it. :)
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
I think the fact that she can lower her hitbox counters con #4, because for example her b3 is probably her best way of getting in on zoners. As soon as you see the startup of a projectile b3 will go directly under it, and it covers about 1/5 of the screen. That being said I also disagree with con #1 simply because her b3 is just so good. It lowers her hitboxes, is advancing, and is still safe on block. Being at advantage after it would be nice but almost broken imo(Still wouldnt complain if it happened).

However, I think one of her biggest cons is she gets killed by game transitions. For Example: Say you take someone's first life bar and get a HKD on them. Catwoman WALKS BACKWARDS and places herself at a disadvantaged position. Baraka did this too and quite frankly it is TOTAL BULLSHIT that you get perfect positioning and the round transition screws you over. Adding on to that any clash is going to hurt your game because it leaves her at fullscreen no matter what(So even if your opponent has less meter than you it would still be wise for them to clash because even if you win the clash they are back where they want to be).

The above also applies to sudden death, as when it starts it starts both characters about half the screen apart. This means without meter you are getting screwed by the positioning.


Other than that I love her character and she will definitely always be one of my mains.
 

KH StarCharger

Kombatant
I think the fact that she can lower her hitbox counters con #4, because for example her b3 is probably her best way of getting in on zoners. As soon as you see the startup of a projectile b3 will go directly under it, and it covers about 1/5 of the screen. That being said I also disagree with con #1 simply because her b3 is just so good. It lowers her hitboxes, is advancing, and is still safe on block. Being at advantage after it would be nice but almost broken imo(Still wouldnt complain if it happened).

However, I think one of her biggest cons is she gets killed by game transitions. For Example: Say you take someone's first life bar and get a HKD on them. Catwoman WALKS BACKWARDS and places herself at a disadvantaged position. Baraka did this too and quite frankly it is TOTAL BULLSHIT that you get perfect positioning and the round transition screws you over. Adding on to that any clash is going to hurt your game because it leaves her at fullscreen no matter what(So even if your opponent has less meter than you it would still be wise for them to clash because even if you win the clash they are back where they want to be).

The above also applies to sudden death, as when it starts it starts both characters about half the screen apart. This means without meter you are getting screwed by the positioning.


Other than that I love her character and she will definitely always be one of my mains.
Outside of the comment on her stage transit move (b3 i have tried is not reliable against characters like deathstroke that have a low shot bro), I agree with everything you just said in spades. The transitions deal however, is more or less a system mechanic that I didn't include because it wasn't exclusive to only catwoman. Although, you bring up several good points about that and you are absolutely right on about it. It ticks me off as well when I maul deathstroke or other zoners and the game on the final hit of a round pushes them or me back at full screen when it's over. So now I have to chase them down all over again when I've done all of that work to get in. Good post dude.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Outside of the comment on her stage transit move (b3 i have tried is not reliable against characters like deathstroke that have a low shot bro), I agree with everything you just said in spades. The transitions deal however, is more or less a system mechanic that I didn't include because it wasn't exclusive to only catwoman. Although, you bring up several good points about that and you are absolutely right on about it. It ticks me off as well when I maul deathstroke or other zoners and the game on the final hit of a round pushes them or me back at full screen when it's over. So now I have to chase them down all over again when I've done all of that work to get in. Good post dude.
Yeah its pretty late, didnt even think about lows lol. Although I usually just try to block the lows and b3 the highs, but that can prove more difficult in an actual match. Sometimes you got to just walk and duck(Which I totally suck at).
 

Ninj

Where art thou, MKX Skarlet?
Pro's

9) Second to none overhead to low game to keep people guessing
I don't know one way or another if this is true. I do like her overhead/low game as I think it's very powerful. I don't know if she's #1, which is my only question on this one.

I agree with the rest of the pro's.

Con's:

2) Her playstyle can force people to play very unpatiently against zoners
Very true. Catwoman players take note of this - you MUST learn to be patient, even though, as Starcharger points out, Catwoman's playstyle is going to contribute to a feeling of anxiety when being zoned. Zoning-range is her weak zone, it's natural to be impatient/anxious and want to throw out MB Catdash's just to resolve the tension - wait for the right time, make good reads, and your opponent is then trapped in HKD pressure.

4) She has no way of getting damage on an opponent from full screen without having to use her meter for a cat dash which is full combo punishable on block and can only absorb one hits for a limited time.
I agree and I disagree. My "agree": Obviously MB Catdash is an awesome tool to get in - it's fast, has a hit of armor (wish it had 2+ but it might be too good then) and it fits her playstyle of quick, solid reads leading to big damage HKD setups.

My "disagree": Catwoman's forward dash, I find, is actually quite good (like many characters in this game). The only one I can think of that I think is overall better is Nightwing's due to its crazy fast recovery. In this game, if someone is zoning you, it only takes 1 or 2 good reads to get in. Along with that, there are only so many characters who can "truly zone". In my opinion, a "true zoner" is someone like Deathstroke who has at their disposal fast startup, fast moving, multihitting long range specials that can hit any area of the screen easily (low, high, air, all fullscreen). So against a true zoner, getting in IS difficult, but that's their job. Against other zoners who's zoning moves you can read fairly easily (Superman comes to mind), I don't see Catwoman having much difficulty getting in.

6) Vortex pressure can be sustained at midscreen mainly by using meter
Mostly agree. B2 into B3 can sustain meterless pressure midscreen, though the timing is somewhat strict. I haven't spent a ton of time practicing it - I think I hit it about 60-65% of the time. I think if B2 hits at max range it whiffs, but more testing and practice needs to go into this method of sustaining meterless midscreen pressure.

All other Con's I agree with.

Great post KH StarCharger

EDIT: StarCharger - you don't mention her J2, a big 'Pro'.

Nor do you mention her unclashable combo's that lead to HKD's - at minimum, B2, F3, F3, but typically with some sort of setup with F1,1,2 or B1,2,D3 into Catdash. As the opponent, you have to clash at the start of the combo - you can't wait to absorb damage from her combo's before Clashing out of it, which is great because more than 50% of the damage from her unclashables comes from the unclashable sections of the combo. I'm certain I frustrate and confuse the people I play with that, as nobody wants to clash right away - you wait until you see that a) the opponent lands the combo in the first place and b) the meaty part of the combo is in progress.

These two Pro's could be added. KH StarCharger
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
I have never gotten J2 to hit unless it is an air to air. Can you actually use it to hit people on the ground, is the timing weird?
 
I have never gotten J2 to hit unless it is an air to air. Can you actually use it to hit people on the ground, is the timing weird?
the J2 definitly is a pro, connects to grounded character at very far distance and for his arc jump you can follow the combo easy, yes is tricky, but you can do it consistently when you practice it.
 

Ninj

Where art thou, MKX Skarlet?
I have never gotten J2 to hit unless it is an air to air. Can you actually use it to hit people on the ground, is the timing weird?
Practice it my friend. It's weird distancing which, once you get used to it, works heavily in your favor. Fantastic tool. Put a Grundy player in the corner, for example, and at jump distance start neutral jump 2'ing to frustrate and bait.

Can hit confirm into Cat dash.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 

KH StarCharger

Kombatant
Pro's





EDIT: StarCharger - you don't mention her J2, a big 'Pro'.

Nor do you mention her unclashable combo's that lead to HKD's - at minimum, B2, F3, F3, but typically with some sort of setup with F1,1,2 or B1,2,D3 into Catdash. As the opponent, you have to clash at the start of the combo - you can't wait to absorb damage from her combo's before Clashing out of it, which is great because more than 50% of the damage from her unclashables comes from the unclashable sections of the combo. I'm certain I frustrate and confuse the people I play with that, as nobody wants to clash right away - you wait until you see that a) the opponent lands the combo in the first place and b) the meaty part of the combo is in progress.

These two Pro's could be added. KH StarCharger
Edited. I totally missed those two lol. Her dash may have good recovery, but it hardly covers any ground and is nowhere near as fast as say Batman, Grundy, or even Doomsday considering she's supposed to be a flipping cat. Plus Idk any other character with as much of a beneficial Overhead low game as Catwoman and I've seen them all at this point.
 

Treadmill

Champion
I have never gotten J2 to hit unless it is an air to air. Can you actually use it to hit people on the ground, is the timing weird?
Man that is 75% of my game lol....hunting for a j2 outside their attack range. The timing is strange at first but it actually works better from a distance.
 

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Elder God
NetherRealm Studios
Killer Frost has a significantly better 50-50 than Catwoman.
 

KH StarCharger

Kombatant
Killer Frost has a significantly better 50-50 than Catwoman.
I don't know if I agree with that. I've been put in her 50/50 and it is downright nasty in it's own right. A brutal tactic for someone to try and defend. However, KF's requires her to use meter to sustain it or to even use it where as catwoman will alway have her combo enders to keep hers going to an extent. Either way Both are extremely good.
 

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Elder God
NetherRealm Studios
Catwoman's 50/50 can be fuzzy guarded. KF's cannot. KF gets good meterless damage into hard knockdowns or standing resets with meter that give her free 50/50's. What makes CW good is her wakeup game after a combo. KF's is even better.
 

Under_The_Mayo

Master of Quanculations
I think one of her most important tools is 1F2. You said after a Jump in 1 she can be poked out of her b2 and all that. Well, do jump in 1F2. Then you're at +2 and they have to respect your D1. If they don't, then you D1 Claws will combo, or just a raw D1 will leave you at +12 hit advantage, and you can go for another 1F2 and reset the +2, or do 2D2 which is also inescapable from a hit D1, and it also leaves you at +2 again and it starts all over. I think she needs to be played like this to make people respect her advantage. THEN you go for her mixups.
 
does she do anything after she evades something can some one tell me i have never gotten it off much so i don't use it so can some one tell me what happens if i get it off so i may be able to practice it more

is it like batman's and joker's parry where they do damage or like flash's with his and he just evades it
 

RYX

BIG PUSHER
does she do anything after she evades something can some one tell me i have never gotten it off much so i don't use it so can some one tell me what happens if i get it off so i may be able to practice it more

is it like batman's and joker's parry where they do damage or like flash's with his and he just evades it
You get a Scratch added to your trait.

I'm not sure how it affects your ability to get in since it seems to recover slowly.