B23 Mixup Options

[A New Angel Is Advent]

Let's talk about old news. Need some ideas for opening up opponents who know how to block BA. Here's what I'm using now. Not everything is safe obviously, but it has a decent risk/reward and at some point you have to take risks. What else are you guys doing?

BA mixup on a blocked B23
-Opponent conditioned to block D1 lightning hands
-Lightning catches backdash (or they're not back dashing or MBB3)

B23 blocked
-D1 trait grab
-D1 trait B23
-D1 trait B23 D1 grab
-D1 trait B23 D1 lightning
-D1 trait B2 lightning
-crossup J.2
-crossup j.2 MB divekick
-neutral j.3 MB divekick
-D1 113 D1 trait to lightning, grab, etc

 

[MajinBerserker]

I use a lot of your D1-trait options, never tried the jumping stuff, though. Opponent can back dash after D1-trait, too (opens up instant dive kick option, though).

When the opponent back dashes after a blocked B23, I always MB Dive kick if I have the meter. It's a free dive kick combo, guaranteed.

I've started using b2-trait shenanigans more if the opponent keeps respecting b23.
B2-trait-raw MB Low Lightning (disrespect)
B2-trait-1-mb low lighting (11 may give away the lightning)
B2-trait-b23-into whatever pressure I feel like (113, 112- into lightning)
B2-trait-grab or F3 bait (this is known, obviously)
B2-trait-Instant air close/far Dive Kick (can cross-up, just a little tough at first)

Some of these require the meter to stay safe (lightning and dive kicks) but I'll use regular low lightning sometimes, too. I'll take the risks, like you said.
And I don't buy the "low lightning should be blocked on reaction" idea. It's going to catch people. I do prefer to always have the meter to MB it, though.

 

[MajinBerserker]

There's always B2-trait-sweep, too. Dat low.
Though his sweep is plenty punishable. But, I'll throw it out. Quicker low option than lightning.

 

[A New Angel Is Advent]

I use a lot of your D1-trait options, never tried the jumping stuff, though. Opponent can back dash after D1-trait, too (opens up instant dive kick option, though).

When the opponent back dashes after a blocked B23, I always MB Dive kick if I have the meter. It's a free dive kick combo, guaranteed.

I've started using b2-trait shenanigans more if the opponent keeps respecting b23.
B2-trait-raw MB Low Lightning (disrespect)
B2-trait-1-mb low lighting (11 may give away the lightning)
B2-trait-b23-into whatever pressure I feel like (113, 112- into lightning)
B2-trait-grab or F3 bait (this is known, obviously)
B2-trait-Instant air close/far Dive Kick (can cross-up, just a little tough at first)

Some of these require the meter to stay safe (lightning and dive kicks) but I'll use regular low lightning sometimes, too. I'll take the risks, like you said.
And I don't buy the "low lightning should be blocked on reaction" idea. It's going to catch people. I do prefer to always have the meter to MB it, though.

Good stuff. I've always punished backdash with lightning. I'll try to add MB DK

 

[MajinBerserker]

Good stuff. I've always punished backdash with lightning. I'll try to add MB DK

It's a tight timing, but easy after you master it.
My advice- buffer the up input as b23 hits on block, then input the dive kick direction and buttons. Practice hitting "up" as soon as b23 animation ends. You'll see Adam pop up, then the kick comes out. Make it as insta-air as you can. Easy once you get it down.

 

[MajinBerserker]

Another option for opponent back dashing after blocked B23-
Adam dash-up 11xx
-use 11 as the starter and end the combo however you'd like
-this is definitely your go-to meterless option if you predict a backdash

After D1-trait, if the opponent back dashes-
You should be able to get a MB Dive Kick off.

I'm going to lab tonight and see if I can provide a few more ideas.

 

[A New Angel Is Advent]

Thanks for giving me a reason to lab after like a year xD

 

[MajinBerserker]

Thanks for giving me a reason to lab after like a year xD

No problem man!! I'm still in the lab every few days with Teth.
He's still scary. Give other people a reason to think so, too.

 

[MajinBerserker]

Some lab findings:
All after a blocked B23, opponent does NOT back dash.
11 hits just like d1. Same timing. I tested against numerous reversals (Supes Scoop, Trident Rush, Sword Flip, Atlas Torpedo, AM Scoop) and found success. The 11 string comes out in 6f, just like D1- so this should work to keep pressure other than D1-Palpatine.
-use 11xtrait-cont. pressure/special, 113-special, 11-special, etc.
-I found it very beneficial b/c it allows you to keep longer pressure on the opponent, especially if you have Orbs ready for cancelling.
-However, I didn't test 11 against normals. Though with it being 6f, I think we should be just as safe as doing D1-Palpatine. I'll update later if I find glaring holes in using 11 after blocked B23 when I play my training partners again. If you know of something that does beat D1- 11 will also be beat.

For command grab reversals (if you can make that read)- input F3 at the same timing as you would D1. Grab immunity and full combo if they get it by the F3. MB if need be.
-looks weird due to the F3 taking a bit to come out, but I tested the timing- just input it like D1. Seemed to be coming out fine, just looks odd.

MB B3 is always an option, as well, after blocked B23. Just have to be careful about multi-hit moves & specials from the opponent. Still an option, though.