Tech - Shirai Ryu B21 EXBF1 B21xxDB3 NJP -> ???

[ATIWAB]

Video shows the difference in timing between whiffing and landing the NJP, for those of you unfamiliar and wanting to try...

Everything I've ever seen online ends the NJP with a F3 and gets 35%, but messing around with it today I found that you can do B21 EXBF1 B21xxDB3 NJP 4 BF1 for 38% 1-meter. The timing on the 4-BF1 is extremely strict and so this isn't that practical, you'll usually whiff the BF1 and end at 34%.

I also landed B21 EXBF1 B21xxDB3 NJP Air Spear, which was extremely disappointing as it gets the same 35% as an F3 does with a more difficult input, but maybe you guys can find something more optimal with the reduced startup frames on 2 since patch? I couldn't do anything with it but it feels like more potential is there.

 

[Pleasa]

Video shows the difference in timing between whiffing and landing the NJP, for those of you unfamiliar and wanting to try...

Everything I've ever seen online ends the NJP with a F3 and gets 35%, but messing around with it today I found that you can do B21 EXBF1 B21xxDB3 NJP 4 BF1 for 38% 1-meter. The timing on the 4-BF1 is extremely strict and so this isn't that practical, you'll usually whiff the BF1 and end at 34%.

I also landed B21 EXBF1 B21xxDB3 NJP Air Spear, which was extremely disappointing as it gets the same 35% as an F3 does with a more difficult input, but maybe you guys can find something more optimal with the reduced startup frames on 2 since patch? I couldn't do anything with it but it feels like more potential is there.

The reason the combos are not as high as you would like is because you are using EX Spear too early into the combo... This automatically prevents high damage as EX Spear is intended to be used towards the end of a combo to maximize damage output...

Instead of EX Spear, you should follow B21 with EX Fist Flurry as a starter for max damage...

Also, check the video below for combos using EX Tornado Strike in place of EX Spear for same high damage potential as you would get using EX Fist Flurry (in the event that the distance is to far for EX Fist Flurry to connect)...

 

[ATIWAB]

The reason the combos are not as high as you would like is because you are using EX Spear too early into the combo... This automatically prevents high damage as EX Spear is intended to be used towards the end of a combo to maximize damage output...

Instead of EX Spear, you should follow B21 with EX Fist Flurry as a starter for max damage...

Also, check the video below for combos using EX Tornado Strike in place of EX Spear for same high damage potential as you would get using EX Fist Flurry (in the event that the distance is to far for EX Fist Flurry to connect)...

I saw you post this in another thread too, and my only response is... Eh?

The combos you're comparing are completely different in this video, not just the special you're using to juggle, of course the damage is significantly different.

"... instead, let's see what damage can be done if we replace the EX Spear Ryu with the EX Tornado Strike and continue the same combo ..."

Your Test Combo one with B21 opener: B21->EXBF1->B21->BF1 = 29%
Your Test Combo two with B21 opener: B21->EXBF4->B2->DB3->F21->BF1 = 38%

This isn't "the same combo" with EX Spear Ryu replaced, it's not even close.

A 1-to-1 comparison -- that is, B21->EXBF?->B21->BF1 is only a 1% difference, 29% on Spear and 30% on kick, not a "9 to 11% difference."

The B21->EXBF?->B2->DB3->F21->BF1 combo you're using in the video as the "higher damage with EX TS" example using EX Spear instead is only a 1% difference, as well.

I have no idea how you looked at these comparisons in the video and thought the combos were even remotely the same, but you are correct in stating that using TS is higher damage... by 1%.

That aside, the real point of the thread is asking whether or not there's anything Takeda can do after the NJP in the string I listed; he's too far away to land most things, 4 pushes the opponent too far away to land 44, D2 will whiff, etc., but dash doesn't seem to make it there in time to grab for a throw or anything else.

 

[Pleasa]

I saw you post this in another thread too, and my only response is... Eh?

The combos you're comparing are completely different in this video, not just the special you're using to juggle, of course the damage is significantly different.

"... instead, let's see what damage can be done if we replace the EX Spear Ryu with the EX Tornado Strike and continue the same combo ..."

Your Test Combo one with B21 opener: B21->EXBF1->B21->BF1 = 29%
Your Test Combo two with B21 opener: B21->EXBF4->B2->DB3->F21->BF1 = 38%

This isn't "the same combo" with EX Spear Ryu replaced, it's not even close.

A 1-to-1 comparison -- that is, B21->EXBF?->B21->BF1 is only a 1% difference, 29% on Spear and 30% on kick, not a "9 to 11% difference."

The B21->EXBF?->B2->DB3->F21->BF1 combo you're using in the video as the "higher damage with EX TS" example using EX Spear instead is only a 1% difference, as well.

I have no idea how you looked at these comparisons in the video and thought the combos were even remotely the same, but you are correct in stating that using TS is higher damage... by 1%.

That aside, the real point of the thread is asking whether or not there's anything Takeda can do after the NJP in the string I listed; he's too far away to land most things, 4 pushes the opponent too far away to land 44, D2 will whiff, etc., but dash doesn't seem to make it there in time to grab for a throw or anything else.

@ATIWAB The point of my initial video was to show off the two bar combo that included EX BF4 which does just as much damage as his EX BF2 (Takedas most damaging EX starter)

I threw in the 1 bar for comparison sake and to give people an idea of how much damage the EX BF4 1 bar would make... It was my intention that once they saw the damage potential of the 2 bar, they would want to get used to doing the 1 bar (muscle memory)...

Yes the "other" one bar you are referring to is not a 1:1 comparison and of the most basic form... And you are correct that other combos (including EX BF1) can get to 37-38% as well..

But you have the potential to extend to a much more damaging 2 bar combo in a match by using either EX BF2 or EX BF4 (If you have the meter).. Because of that, the point remains the same....

That is EX BF1 is inferior as a starter EX move in a combo if for no other reason but losing the ability to continue your combo by using EX BF1 at the end of the combo to increase damage... especially when one is looking to use 2 bar combos....

But if you feel I hijacked your thread (assumed by the nature of your response) or that I tried to downplay what you were saying in the OP, my geniune apologies, that was not my intention as I did not want to step on your toes... I will stop posting in this thread to avoid further issues...

 

[ATIWAB]

@ATIWAB The point of my initial video was to show off the two bar combo that included EX BF4 which does just as much damage as his EX BF2 (Takedas most damaging EX starter)

I threw in the 1 bar for comparison sake and to give people an idea of how much damage the EX BF4 1 bar would make... It was my intention that once they saw the damage potential of the 2 bar, they would want to get used to doing the 1 bar (muscle memory)...

Yes the "other" one bar you are referring to is useless and of the most basic form... But once its understood that you have the potential to extend to a much more damaging 2 bar combo in a match (If you have the meter), the point remains the same....

That is EX BF1 is inferior as a starter EX move in a combo if for no reason but to lose the ability to continue your combo by using EX BF1 at the end of the combo to increase damage... especially when one is looking to use 2 bar combos....

But if you feel I hijacked your thread (assumed by the nature of your response) or that I tried to downplay what you were saying in the OP, my geniune apologies, that was not my intention as I did not want to step on your toes... I will stop posting in this thread to avoid further issues...

Nah man, you're all good, I get your point on the 2-bar thing but the part of the video comparing the one-bars was pretty misleading is all.

Re: thread topic, since it's a one-bar combo, my bigger point was that using TS vs Spear isn't gonna make a world of difference; I'm really just trying to figure out if there's anything useful Takeda can do off that NJP.

(Off topic tho, another nice thing about starting off with TS that I don't think gets enough credit is that if you've conditioned your opponent to expect Kunai after your B21, you can hit the EX TS even after a blocked B21 when they crouch block expecting Kunai and the block advantage got buffed last patch so it's not terribly unsafe to try even without hit confirm. I actually started using it more often specifically because of the video you posted, so don't want you to think I was calling you out or anything, just pointing out the number comparisons were a bit skewed.)

 

[Pleasa]

Nah man, you're all good, I get your point on the 2-bar thing but the part of the video comparing the one-bars was pretty misleading is all.

Re: thread topic, since it's a one-bar combo, my bigger point was that using TS vs Spear isn't gonna make a world of difference; I'm really just trying to figure out if there's anything useful Takeda can do off that NJP.

(Off topic tho, another nice thing about starting off with TS that I don't think gets enough credit is that if you've conditioned your opponent to expect Kunai after your B21, you can hit the EX TS even after a blocked B21 when they crouch block expecting Kunai and the block advantage got buffed last patch so it's not terribly unsafe to try even without hit confirm. I actually started using it more often specifically because of the video you posted, so don't want you to think I was calling you out or anything, just pointing out the number comparisons were a bit skewed.)

I understand where you are coming from completely.. I believe this was just an issue of miscommunication on both parts... Something that I don't think will be the case anymore because of this conversation

To answer your previous question regarding your string: B21 EXBF1 B21xxDB3 NJP

There doesn't seem to be much room for too many options after the NJP... Aside from your 4 BF1 ender, I was only able to consistently (without messing up) pull off F3 after wards but that only ends in 35%...

Everything else after the NJP that I tried was doable but not consistent enough to recommend (meaning they were whiffing more than succeeding)... I am however playing on pad as of recent so that might slow down my inputs just a tad lol...