"Aw Crap" Hellboy Matchup Discussion

[Sesal Snow]

Hello fellow B.P.R.D Agents this is where we shall discuss our methods of dealing with each of our opponents.
Post your insights of each Matchup's here.

 

[Sesal Snow]

Ok guys Hellboy has been out for a little now and it is still definitely early to moan about matchup numbers but i would like to ask you guy's on your opinion about some of the more difficult matchups. I think he's a solid char at the moment and is looking to be evenly matched against most of the cast. He does have a huge issue against small hitbox chars as poor @Tweedy has rightfully complained about in other threads but I shall not get into that at the moment.
Ok so I am going to mention some of the chars that seem a little more difficult to deal with at the moment they well could beat Hellboy in the matchup but I don't want to commit to that opinion this early at the moment.

Batman.
We all know Batman's a well rounded. So far when I have been grinding out this matchup I have noticed that he can control Hellboy very well. He has his batrang's for zoning and can use the up batrang on reaction to a leap.
His pressure decent enough to negate Hellboy's armor trait very well and his damage is good enough to keep up with Hellboy. For the most part in this matchup I have noticed that the Batman players tend to just sit back and wait with a bat out. If Hellboy uses mb charge he can't get much but that's even less against Batman with trait out if you even go for the d1 check expecting them to advance the bat trait can punish the d1 whiff for free giving the Batman a full combo. If Batman gets the life lead the only thing the Hellboy player can do is slowly and patiently wait for the right time to get in along with applying some counter zoning and trait in the neutral.

Green Arrow.
A char that has some what blown up recently and has gone under the radar of a lot of people. Similar reason I feel Hellboy struggles in this matchup to the Batman matchup is the fact the Arrow can control the space extremely well like Batman but I think he does it better. Arrow can shoot his arrows underneath Hellboys gun shot's, he can hold the arrow and on reaction take Hellboy straight out of his leap. Also Arrow has plenty of wake up options that can be hard to deal with and his run away game is amazing with his db2. Arrow also can contest against armor trait very well stopping a lot of pressure with his run away, plus frames and zoning. He can actually use hurricane bow on a confirm against armored Hellboy to take him out of it. I will say I have been using armored trait to take the last hit of a string / special to get a free punish against chars as shown by @Patient-Impulse in the Combo-Tech thread.

Sub Zero.
A char that a lot of people moan is trash. I disagree I think he is extremely underrated but anyways the reason I believe he does well against Hellboy is just because you have to play extremely passive against Sub. One of my main training partners is a Sub main and I am going to mention some of the things I have noticed against this char. So every time I play a Sub they don't use clone as they normally would against other chars. They would use clone on reaction to a leap to get a free punish causing me to use more fake outs. They also only use clone for corner pressure and on a knockdown so that Hellboy cannot wakeup.
Hellboy's armor is very nice in this matchup but again Sub is one of those who can deal with it extremely well. If Hellboy was to activate armor trait most of the Sub player has a few options he can use meterburn clone putting out to clones gives 2 hit stun chances against Hellboy and if you see the he jumps into a clone or walks into one the sub zero player can then get a jump in into a block string ending in mb ice bomb, this wastes pretty much all of the time the trait has and the Sub player is also dealing damage on the Hellboy player. Another thing that Sub can abuse is that damn slide. With the slide he can go under all of Hellboy's zoning and leaps using it to close gaps or to get away. Normally both chars would not have to go in on each other but eventually when it comes down to it I feel Sub has the easier option for getting in. He can slide under shots and get in he can stop Hellboy from leaping on reaction even with a fake leap Hellboy still has the clone in front of him and Sub's trait recharges very quickly so you will have to deal with it again.

Ok so I am just going to mention those 3 at the moment since those are the chars I feel I have had a huge amount of exp against and are the one's I feel Hellboy could struggle against a bit more than against other chars. I did not go into huge detail just a few points into the annoyance's of the matchups.

What do you guys think?
Who do you guys think Hellboy struggles against at the moment in your opinions?
Of course feel free to post what you guys think we should do in each matchup and lets get this thread going so we can learn them.

 

[Afrophysics]

Catwoman is his worst matchup. Her small figure ruins most of his approaches, as she can duck under his f2 and b3 with her b3 and d1. There have been so many moments where I was at advantage and trying to continue pressure where she gets out of it by throwing out one of her moves that make her even smaller. She has great AA against his leaps with her j2 also.

 

[Sesal Snow]

Catwoman is his worst matchup. Her small figure ruins most of his approaches, as she can duck under his f2 and b3 with her b3 and d1. There have been so many moments where I was at advantage and trying to continue pressure where she gets out of it by throwing out one of her moves that make her even smaller. She has great AA against his leaps with her j2 also.

Yeah this mu does suck. As for the whiffing issues I have only had it when I try to pressure at max range that's when she low profiles my shit. As for the j2 AA you can bait this really easy with a leap cancel and you can get the trip guard on her with f23 similar to most AA's against Hellboy.
Hellboy does struggle against female hitbox's terribly I hope it is something they address in the future.
His pressure is already a little naff as we don't get a lot of advantage due to the pushback on our strings/specials anyways.
At the moment I have had decent success against this character but I do feel it is one of his harder mu's for sure.
I need more time to grind this one out before I determine my true opinion on this.

 

[Jugghead]

Batman.
We all know Batman's a well rounded. So far when I have been grinding out this matchup I have noticed that he can control Hellboy very well. He has his batrang's for zoning and can use the up batrang on reaction to a leap.
His pressure decent enough to negate Hellboy's armor trait very well and his damage is good enough to keep up with Hellboy. For the most part in this matchup I have noticed that the Batman players tend to just sit back and wait with a bat out. If Hellboy uses mb charge he can't get much but that's even less against Batman with trait out if you even go for the d1 check expecting them to advance the bat trait can punish the d1 whiff for free giving the Batman a full combo. If Batman gets the life lead the only thing the Hellboy player can do is slowly and patiently wait for the right time to get in along with applying some counter zoning and trait in the neutral.

Can Batman really up batarang on reaction to leap? His leap is extremely fast. Can Batman react only at full screen maybe? What about 3/4 or half? Also, it seems like Hellboy's gun beats out straight batarang pretty bad, so I didn't think Hellboy should really be too concerned with Batman's zoning. I haven't played a lot of Hellboy's or labbed the MU, but these are the early impressions I've gotten.

 

[Sesal Snow]

I have played this mu a lot more recently and people are getting the Hellboy match up down very well.
I have certainly been taken out of leap on reaction from anywhere between half and full screen I have even been hit by mb batrang whilst doing a leap cancel off a block string which is the easiest to react to but shows that batrang is an option.
Batman's zoning is only a pain to Hellboy because of the traited bats. Batman can just sit back and chill with them out and even when he's waiting for trait he can just duck all of Hellboy's shots and wait for a leap etc until trait comes back.
I think this is a harder mu for Hellboy but its probably a tough 5-5.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

VERY early impressions.. but I think Manta is going to be a rough MU.

He can contest any kind of leap attempts it seems.. From close, his d2 whacks you out of the air very easily, and with his extremely solid dashes and walk speed, he can often just panic dash to safety or literally walk away from any real danger. From mid to far ranges it seems he can j3 to cover the entire screen in front of him and smack you out of the air. You can to cancel out of course, and bait the j3, but even then, he can forgo j3 entirely and air shark attack you pretty effectively.

Manta of course has some of the best anti-zoning around, so we cant rely well on gunshots. He can just duck about two of them and he's in, or tele on a read, or jump and air harpoon, etc. Of course we can read that and air gunshot, but if you're wrong, you only get one attempt and he's in. You can def catch him with a stray shot occasionally, but the risk/reward seems to be thoroughly in his favor and you wont keep him out for any length of time.

Neutral feels tough too. He has tons of options to stop f23, or just flat out contest it with his own f21.. but he can play back at a mid range where our f23 whiffs, he can still react to leap attempts and he can whiff punish the hell out of us with f21.


On knockdown, laser can stop shoulder it SEEMS. I had several get stuffed right out. Manta is generally extremely strong on oki anyway.

Dont get me wrong, these are SUPER early impressions, but Ive played the Beetle v Manta MU vs the same person and I felt WAY more comfortable. As Hellboy I felt like I couldnt do *anything* from *anywhere* without it being easily stopped, or adapted to. Obviously I need to run the MU way more, and IM not putting numbers on this, just passing along some observations. There may be some key to this MU that I totally missed, but when playing vs the same player as Beetle, I felt like I was losing to the player, but when playing vbs the same guy as Hellboy, I felt like i was losing to the character before I even got a chance to play the player, lol.

 

[Sesal Snow]

VERY early impressions.. but I think Manta is going to be a rough MU.

He can contest any kind of leap attempts it seems.. From close, his d2 whacks you out of the air very easily, and with his extremely solid dashes and walk speed, he can often just panic dash to safety or literally walk away from any real danger. From mid to far ranges it seems he can j3 to cover the entire screen in front of him and smack you out of the air. You can to cancel out of course, and bait the j3, but even then, he can forgo j3 entirely and air shark attack you pretty effectively.

Manta of course has some of the best anti-zoning around, so we cant rely well on gunshots. He can just duck about two of them and he's in, or tele on a read, or jump and air harpoon, etc. Of course we can read that and air gunshot, but if you're wrong, you only get one attempt and he's in. You can def catch him with a stray shot occasionally, but the risk/reward seems to be thoroughly in his favor and you wont keep him out for any length of time.

Neutral feels tough too. He has tons of options to stop f23, or just flat out contest it with his own f21.. but he can play back at a mid range where our f23 whiffs, he can still react to leap attempts and he can whiff punish the hell out of us with f21.


On knockdown, laser can stop shoulder it SEEMS. I had several get stuffed right out. Manta is generally extremely strong on oki anyway.

Dont get me wrong, these are SUPER early impressions, but Ive played the Beetle v Manta MU vs the same person and I felt WAY more comfortable. As Hellboy I felt like I couldnt do *anything* from *anywhere* without it being easily stopped, or adapted to. Obviously I need to run the MU way more, and IM not putting numbers on this, just passing along some observations. There may be some key to this MU that I totally missed, but when playing vs the same player as Beetle, I felt like I was losing to the player, but when playing vbs the same guy as Hellboy, I felt like i was losing to the character before I even got a chance to play the player, lol.

I also have been playing this mu quite a bit and I agree that Manta has very good control over Hellboy however I do think it's an even mu at the moment.
Zoning is actually extremely effective against Manta. Hellboy's gunshot actually recovers quick enough so Matna cannot react to the shot he has to do it on a read. This allows Hellboy to take advantage of dash canceling the gunshot to get in.
I feel defense trait is a must in this mu it's to good in this mu not to use it negates all chip whilst active and reduces damage when hit this come's in extremely handy especially against laser.
As for Mantas f21 it has the same meta game as when we use our f23 and f2 stagger into charge. Both chars have to guess whether they are going to d1 check or go for another advancing mid or even just block.

Now every character in this game can react to leap. The only time I would use this is on an oki setup or a leap cancel into block just to get in a little bit further.
One thing I have been doing is if you notice that the Manta is backdashing a lot after f213 or laser mb etc I just go into a mid leap cancel and get a punish on the backdash, if the Manta does not backdash and you still get a leap you can just cancel it into block anyways and be safe.

I feel this match up has to be played extremely passive with Hellboy but I feel neither character has a true advantage from what I have played so far.

Of course I will be grinding this mu a lot more and will post what I have found for this mu and others I play.

 

[Jugghead]

I have played this mu a lot more recently and people are getting the Hellboy match up down very well.
I have certainly been taken out of leap on reaction from anywhere between half and full screen I have even been hit by mb batrang whilst doing a leap cancel off a block string which is the easiest to react to but shows that batrang is an option.
Batman's zoning is only a pain to Hellboy because of the traited bats. Batman can just sit back and chill with them out and even when he's waiting for trait he can just duck all of Hellboy's shots and wait for a leap etc until trait comes back.
I think this is a harder mu for Hellboy but its probably a tough 5-5.

Sounds like I've been respecting leap too much and not turtling enough. I've mainly been going in. I'll take your thoughts and try them out. Thanks!

As of now I also think its 5-5. I haven't seen anything compelling to make me think otherwise, but maybe this info will.

 

[ShrekForXbox]

What do you guys think now that Hellboys has a little more time to sit? I still find Flash to be a pretty difficult mu, and Supergirl.

 

[Sesal Snow]

What do you guys think now that Hellboys has a little more time to sit? I still find Flash to be a pretty difficult mu, and Supergirl.

In my opinion the flash mu is 5-5. We can keep him out pretty well and use our long range normal's to play a very strong neutral against him. One thing I will say is you can't do as many leaps against his godlike d2 as it will lower his hitbox a lot and allow a clean punish every time and a flash who knows the mu will obviously react to leap every time.

The Supergirl mu to me is a weird one she has great neutral at the same range Hellboy does she can counterzone our gunshot with her lasers as she recovers nice and quick like us, she pretty much covers every ground that Hellboy does. In my opinion I think this mu is also a 5-5 but I could see people argue for 6-4 her favour.

Both of these chars don't have to respect out Devils shoulder meter burned (+2) whatsoever unlike other chars who we can d1 check after it they get a clean punish if we attempt anything other than a block. This is because of the pushback of course.

I have had a lot of success in these mu's but I still need more time to determine what I really think. For now I settle at a 5-5 mu for both. What do you guys think?

 

[Crusty]

What's your guys opinion on the RH mu? I think its 5-5 but I want to know how that mu works.

 

[Sesal Snow]

What's your guys opinion on the RH mu? I think its 5-5 but I want to know how that mu works.

I to think it's a 5-5.
Hellboy can keep up with Red Hood's zoning and can leap on reaction to a mine. He can pressure Red Hood pretty well but has to really respect that damn dive as Hellboy's frames are not the greatest.
Hellboy has far superior damage but Red Hoods mine setups on knockdown can easily be used to stuff or bait Hellboy's wake up.
With Hellboy's leap he cannon't just chuck it out willy nilly because of the up shuriken which can then be converted off of.

Just real brief opinions I have on the mu.

 

[Yoaks]

Any advice with the following mus?

Atom, Flash, Manta, Enchantress, Bane and Sub.

 

[Cursa]

Any advice with the following mus?

Atom, Flash, Manta, Enchantress, Bane and Sub.

Don't let Atom build meter, stay on his butt all game.
BF2 him out of trait if he does it in neutral. If he cancels into it either spend the bar for push block or eat the mix.
Atom's D2 is kinda eh and his air-to-air options are pretty good but you'd have a hard time doing a reactionary air-to-air against a Hellboy leap (Well, I do at least). Just be wary of MB BF1's as they full combo you and have a pretty wonky hitbox for catching people jumping, but still more of a read than anything. He has other options to assist him in anti-airs but I think that's getting into fiddly matchup knowledge stuff. Armour trait also helps with getting in against these options, since Atom struggles to break it outside of trait.

Hellboy obviously far out damages Atom, get a life lead and you can begin to compete in the lame game more and take riskier leaps as Atom will have to go for riskier options in the neutral himself in order to shift momentum back, such as doing multiple stomps in a row, which Hellboy can chew up on a solid read with a leap.

I think it's even. F2 is a strong tool provided you don't overuse it as it gets low profiled, but it's an option. Hellboy has options fullscreen and Atom has some answers to them, and D3 and trait are both good options for Atom to deal with Hellboy's neutral and up close game pretty well.

 

[Yoaks]

Don't let Atom build meter, stay on his butt all game.
BF2 him out of trait if he does it in neutral. If he cancels into it either spend the bar for push block or eat the mix.
Atom's D2 is kinda eh and his air-to-air options are pretty good but you'd have a hard time doing a reactionary air-to-air against a Hellboy leap (Well, I do at least). Just be wary of MB BF1's as they full combo you and have a pretty wonky hitbox for catching people jumping, but still more of a read than anything. He has other options to assist him in anti-airs but I think that's getting into fiddly matchup knowledge stuff. Armour trait also helps with getting in against these options, since Atom struggles to break it outside of trait.

Hellboy obviously far out damages Atom, get a life lead and you can begin to compete in the lame game more and take riskier leaps as Atom will have to go for riskier options in the neutral himself in order to shift momentum back, such as doing multiple stomps in a row, which Hellboy can chew up on a solid read with a leap.

I think it's even. F2 is a strong tool provided you don't overuse it as it gets low profiled, but it's an option. Hellboy has options fullscreen and Atom has some answers to them, and D3 and trait are both good options for Atom to deal with Hellboy's neutral and up close game pretty well.

I just now noticed this reply. Don't know how I didn't get a notification? Thanks for the tips.

 

[Yoaks]

So is there anybody else that plays this character? This character forum is depressingly dead.