Question Any fair/honest Characters in MKX?

[Addhad]

Very simple answer... No

 

[Tweedy]

Most of the Balanced Kenshi community just do not understand the game and form issues with the character from their own personal skillset.

"Ugh why are all of these specials so negative" - Don't cancel +2 and -1 strings into specials.

"Ugh why does rising karma not work as a cross over anti air" - It's too slow. Use your D2, it's one of the best anti cross overs in the game.

"Ugh why does tele-flurry not solve all my problems" - Idk bro. Just use it as a tool instead of as your main offense. Pressure, mix with throws. Play mid range with push, D4 and B1, anti airs.

Hit confirm strings like F21, 11, 421, etc. Enforce mind games off of B1 on block and on hit. Don't use 322 because it's garbage in non-Possessed variations imo. Just my opinion tho.

He gets 30%+ meterlessly and 40%+ for a bar for almost every touch. His throw is +25 on hit. When you mix with hit or throw, it's a lot more powerful than when others do, besides like Kotal and Takeda.

 

[myri]

Kung Lao

 

[ismael4790]

Most of the Balanced Kenshi community just do not understand the game and form issues with the character from their own personal skillset.

"Ugh why are all of these specials so negative" - Don't cancel +2 and -1 strings into specials.

"Ugh why does rising karma not work as a cross over anti air" - It's too slow. Use your D2, it's one of the best anti cross overs in the game.

"Ugh why does tele-flurry not solve all my problems" - Idk bro. Just use it as a tool instead of as your main offense. Pressure, mix with throws. Play mid range with push, D4 and B1, anti airs.

Hit confirm strings like F21, 11, 421, etc. Enforce mind games off of B1 on block and on hit. Don't use 322 because it's garbage in non-Possessed variations imo. Just my opinion tho.

He gets 30%+ meterlessly and 40%+ for a bar for almost every touch. His throw is +25 on hit. When you mix with hit or throw, it's a lot more powerful than when others do, besides like Kotal and Takeda.

That might be the case of some. Many others that actually understand the game see that the problem with this character is that his set of tools does not enforce the way he was designed to be played.

When a keepaway character has to be fearing to use his keepaway tools the majority of the match, something is going wrong. Then he is forced to play mid range, where others can do much better than him and have more abusable tools, and he has to rely on non threatening pressure and tons of gimmicks to succeed. For example canceling pokes into specials with him is vital, and this is a mechanic that some even think shouldn't be in the game.

His options to counterpoke simply stink because base Kenshi. Practically not being able to use one of his best mids which is 322 string basically sucks. Throw/hit is only true mixup. He had a fantastic antiair anticrossup tool to stop bunny jumpers, that now can get away with just 14% uppercut punishment, which promotes jumping/crossuping cause of the best risk reward.

New ex push is great though. Kenjutsu looks at it with envy lol

 

[Rude]

What exactly is the difference between counterpoking with Balanced and counterpoking with Possessed?

 

[llabslb]

I'm curious. What makes you think Commando is honest?

 

[ismael4790]

What exactly is the difference between counterpoking with Balanced and counterpoking with Possessed?

d1 being low profiled by some pokes doesn't help, that affects all three variations.

In balanced I would say counterpoke is a bit worse, since when you want to give a mid answer in those situations, you have to use 13 frames b1 which is not the fastest thing in the world and also options after it on block/hit are worse in this variation. Standing 3 options with balanced are bad too.

 

[Tweedy]

Those are problems in Possessed too tho lol.

 

[Rude]

d1 being low profiled by some pokes doesn't help, that affects all three variations.

In balanced I would say counterpoke is a bit worse, since when you want to give a mid answer in those situations, you have to use 13 frames b1 which is not the fastest thing in the world and also options after it on block/hit are worse in this variation. Standing 3 options with balanced are bad too.

What about d1?

Like, if you block a poke and you read they're going to mash, why can't you d1 them?

Most characters are negative enough on block that if they're mashing even a slower d1 will stop it. Then just go into a string or throw.

Once they block after seeing their d1 blocked, you can do whatever you want.

Or, in a low profile situation couldn't you walk back and whiff punish or block a poke and throw if they're mashing?

 

[ismael4790]

What about d1?

Like, if you block a poke and you read they're going to mash, why can't you d1 them?

Most characters are negative enough on block that if they're mashing even a slower d1 will stop it. Then just go into a string or throw.

Once they block after seeing their d1 blocked, you can do whatever you want.

Or, in a low profile situation couldn't you walk back and whiff punish or block a poke and throw if they're mashing?

You basically described how it works in general, yes. Now if you want to try, take Kenshi vs chars like Cassie, Mileena, Smoke (where their d3s have decided to make your d1 non existent) or even Liu, and rejoice lol

To stay on topic, I'll add that I think Tempest Lao is another of those "honest" characters now.

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

The existence of an "honest" character would also imply to me that there are characters who are "dishonest," and I'm really not sure how that even works.

"Honest" just means the character relies on more base-level fundamentals rather than tricks and gimmicks, 50/50s, teleports, armor in unexpected situations, etc...

Like how Ninjutsu can full-combo you from an incredible range. That's considered an "honest" tactic because it's very straightforward, you know he can do it at any time and it shouldn't ever surprise you. Tremor's 50/50 into multiple other 50/50 business in the corner, or Cyrax 1 frame (or whatever it is) hard-to-blockable oki would not be considered very honest. That's all people mean.

 

[Rude]

"Honest" just means the character relies on more base-level fundamentals rather than tricks and gimmicks, 50/50s, teleports, armor in unexpected situations, etc...

Like how Ninjutsu can full-combo you from an incredible range. That's considered an "honest" tactic because it's very straightforward, you know he can do it at any time and it shouldn't ever surprise you. Tremor's 50/50 into multiple other 50/50 business in the corner, or Cyrax 1 frame (or whatever it is) hard-to-blockable oki would not be considered very honest. That's all people mean.

That's silliness.

 

[Shirai Ryu Dog]

Blood God fair? Lol Yeah right..this mofucker doesnt even have to work for damage. Idc if he has no good armor or if the totem's gotta be active...no character should be getting that kinda damage so easily


The correct answer is : Kitana

 

[trufenix]

It sounds like most people think "honest" means "mid-tier".

 

[ismael4790]

It sounds like most people think "honest" means "mid-tier".

What I understand by "honest" is a character that more or less can play the game and at the same time allows the majority of the chars play their game vs him too. A character that has a reasonable risk/reward relation.

For example, Smoke would not be an honest character because he gets completely safe 50/50 starters with a gap that this meta has made practically irrelevant. Risk/reward relation is fucked up there.

 

[STRYKIE]

What I understand by "honest" is a character that more or less can play the game and at the same time allows the majority of the chars play their game vs him too. A character that has a reasonable risk/reward relation.

For example, Smoke would not be an honest character because he gets completely safe 50/50 starters with a gap that this meta has made practically irrelevant. Risk/reward relation is fucked up there.

Honest usually pertains to how much you know you're dealing with upfront. Doesn't mean it's necessarily better or worse.

Smoke is a terrible example of this. The main source of his juice is that he has a 10f hit confirmable advancing mid. His mixup game is extremely matchup dependant. B1 never links into meterless smoke bomb whilst the opponent is jailed in hitstun, and doesn't link on some characters even crouch blocking.

Even if it does connect on a specific character crouch blocking, that's not necessarily a good thing. The reason why this happens is because B1 is hitting later into its active frames making an already slow overhead even more reactable.

The gaps in blockstrings into smoke bomb are often so large that some characters can jump right out of them and get a bigger meterless punish than they would punishing an unsafe move grounded.

The phrase is overused but Smoke really is a variation/character that lives and dies by the sword.