What's new

Angel O's IGAU Theory Fighter Thread!

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
So I'm getting back into the absolute full swing of training and competition for 2014.
And so it is that I really want to get a serious conversation going.

The purpose of this thread is simple.
It's exactly what it sounds like: taking the collective random theories, ideas, plots, schemes and what if's when it comes to Injustice, and putting them in motion for the purpose of breaking down every possible angle or idea that has yet to be explored or truly leapt into.

My #1 topic to start: The Death Of Character Singularity.
Not character loyalty; we all have out #1 in our hearts and minds that, no matter who we take to battle or explore and modify our style with the most, will always stand as our reason to be and battle. What I mean is that the further this game is fleshed out, the more obvious it becomes that there is GREAT strength in exploiting the very level balance between the cast by diversifying your roster and backing up your backups with more backups.

Example...I main Doomsday.
I love Doomsday. He's my favorite DC villain by a country mile, second on my list of all time villains behind only Magneto. He is literally THE reason I didn't quit Injustice, and the destroyer who keeps me coming back even when all hope is lost.
That being said...he definitely has his flaws. And so it is that he needs a posse to cover his six.
As scenes like SoCal and GGA, and especially the NEC Champ PPJ have proven, this is a game where multiple personality disorder as far as characters are concerned is not only beneficial, it's pretty much a requirement given certain characters' excellence in some areas and weakness in others...for example, Doomsday's ability to maul his way to the corner and capitalize on almost every knockdown he makes if his timing is on point, but his very linear strategic approach and an inability to comfortably deal with heavy zoning, or characters who can use his Trait against him - Aquaman, Nightwing, Superman and Deathstroke for example, who can either shatter his armor, or keep him in hitstun long enough to run out its clock.
Which leads me to my reacquisition of Green Arrow, who can pick up the slack in the zoning and setups department, but his lack of high damage and power leaves him lacking against more muscled up characters like Bane and Superman.
That leads to Grundy and Bane, who are armored as they come and have arguably the highest damage in the game outside of the corner (meterless in the case of Bane), but if you go Grundy, you give up the speed, and if you go Bane, you run the risk of being caught debuffed and possibly being outzoned without any armor...
It goes on and on and on, and leads one to believe that, in a game like Injustice where the simplistic and similar mechanics make taking on a high volume of characters easier than in any other fighting game, it's best to always keep several soldiers on deck, and as we saw this past weekend, makes for one of the most competitively diverse fields of character choices ever seen in a fighter.

At the end of the day, everyone's viable.
Even Joker could have his day were he to catch a pool off-guard.
I honestly think that, after everything we've seen so far in 2013, and since it would appear that Martian Manhunter, while an incredibly strong and irritating character, is not the overwhelming force we all previouly assumed he would become, we may have on our hands a metagame in which it is genuinely impossible to declare a finite top character, let alone even a top 5 or 10.

Let's begin.

AK GamerBlake GGA 16 Bit GGA pimpimjim Noobe FOREVER KING
SonicFox5000 Mikemetroid AK Pig Of The Hut EGP Wonder_Chef @Everybody.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
Such face.
Many angle.
Wow.

Actually, you're a perfect specimen for this conversation seeing as, to the best of my knowledge, you're one of the very few well-known players there is who specialized in one character and one character only in Grundy...until you pulled a Spanish Inquisition and pulled SHAZAM of all people out of your pocket saturday.
What's your take on the one VS many choice? And why Billy Batson as a backup?
 

Mikemetroid

Who hired this guy, WTF?
Lead Moderator
Such face.
Many angle.
Wow.

Actually, you're a perfect specimen for this conversation seeing as, to the best of my knowledge, you're one of the very few well-known players there is who specialized in one character and one character only in Grundy...until you pulled a Spanish Inquisition and pulled SHAZAM of all people out of your pocket saturday.
What's your take on the one VS many choice? And why Billy Batson as a backup?
I don't really take the time to play IGAU, when the game came out I originally wanted to play as Shazam but I didn't really click with him til a bit later... So since day one Grundy and I kinda clicked because I felt like he was mega fluid and I liked his AA grab.

I only really use shazam when I feel like I can't really do anything with Grundy (ex. Hawkgirl, Wonder Woman, Bane)... however sometimes he suffers from the same bad MUs (GL, Superman, Cyborg, Harley)
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Tbh, rocking only one character vs taking up multiple ones is something that's different for every player. Like, me personally, I tend to only play characters I enjoy, and usually only play one particular character religiously. I can't play other characters fluently enough (mostly because it doesn't help that my characters tend to have some random shortcoming that leads to them not playing the game the same way as the rest of the cast, so I'm learning a totally different game than most). So I just stick to learning one character and learning them as thoroughly as I can.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
You literally tagged everybody.
I'm on a Game Of Thrones small council kick.
I'm curious where everyone's at mentally as Year One comes to a close, especially after this show and the paradigm shift of characters.

I don't really take the time to play IGAU, when the game came out I originally wanted to play as Shazam but I didn't really click with him til a bit later... So since day one Grundy and I kinda clicked because I felt like he was mega fluid and I liked his AA grab.

I only really use shazam when I feel like I can't really do anything with Grundy (ex. Hawkgirl, Wonder Woman, Bane)... however sometimes he suffers from the same bad MUs (GL, Superman, Cyborg, Harley)
Makes sense. IMO, I think he's extremely underutilized given his tools. He's not amazing, but he's far from terrible.
 

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Elder God
NetherRealm Studios
What PPJ is doing with his stable of oddball characters is super effective in IGAU right now. He is also a very clutch and confident tournament player so it's an extremely good combination. He 'll always do well.

This game is filled with metabreakers. Characters who by nature bypass "playing the game" and enforce their shit on you. This is strong as hell at any point in a game's life but especially now. It will be a long time before character specialists, especially those playing the more honest ones, can match that. That's what's so good about PPJ's approach. Even if you play one of the few characters that can contain Hawkgirl and make her play honest he has his other horseshit characters like Lex. It's pretty much impossible to calm PPJ down and play a match on entirely your terms. Character specialists will raise eventually though. It just takes a huge amount of mu knowledge. I do it with Catwoman, it's just tough. I'll get better at it as time goes on.
 

Espio

Kokomo
I feel like playing one or two characters has immense advantages for getting a more complete understanding of your main and grinding match ups out fully.

Some match ups I thought were pretty tough with Hawkgirl now don't feel that way because I stuck to grinding them out heavily. I know how to use a lot of characters, but I've never bothered to truly grind with them because I feel as a player specialization is what carries me and works best for me. Some people prefer to be a jack of all trades, which is fine if it works for them too.

I study up on other characters a lot, but I just don't play a lot of characters extensively.
 

Chongo

Dead Kings Rise
I play NW so when I lose I can blame it on his shitiness.

I love the character, he's fun to play and as much as I downplay him, I think he isn't as bad as most make him out to be. Sure he has a couple 4-6s and doesn't really beat anyone important, but that doesn't mean he's a shitter. I'd rather lose with NW then win with someone like Lantern or Aquaman.

Also to touch on what 16 bit said another thing that's scary about PPJ is that he just doesn't care. I played him online a few weeks ago (just as legit as offline) and we ran Lex vs NW. I never really felt like I was in control, and that's really unnerving when you're playing against someone like that, especially in a tournament match.
 

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
I always play 3 characters (i don't care about tier placements) & i actually choose them because if i like their moves/costumes etc... But i always choose different characters for example: my main is Hawkgirl <3 i love her so much she is a hit & run bitch. My secondary is Zatanna, i love her too she is more like a set up character. & my third main is Wonder Whore, a pressure character that i also love. I never ever play more than 3 characters. At the beggining i keep switching mains, i've mained KF & Catwoman before, they were so much fun but i deopped them because they didn't fit my style.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
I kind of felt this way about MK9's later period too, unless you play Kabal Cyrax or Sonya.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
What PPJ is doing with his stable of oddball characters is super effective in IGAU right now. He is also a very clutch and confident tournament player so it's an extremely good combination. He 'll always do well.

This game is filled with metabreakers. Characters who by nature bypass "playing the game" and enforce their shit on you. This is strong as hell at any point in a game's life but especially now. It will be a long time before character specialists, especially those playing the more honest ones, can match that. That's what's so good about PPJ's approach. Even if you play one of the few characters that can contain Hawkgirl and make her play honest he has his other horseshit characters like Lex. It's pretty much impossible to calm PPJ down and play a match on entirely your terms. Character specialists will raise eventually though. It just takes a huge amount of mu knowledge. I do it with Catwoman, it's just tough. I'll get better at it as time goes on.
Couldn't have said it better myself, my friend.

I feel like playing one or two characters has immense advantages for getting a more complete understanding of your main and grinding match ups out fully.

Some match ups I thought were pretty tough with Hawkgirl now don't feel that way because I stuck to grinding them out heavily. I know how to use a lot of characters, but I've never bothered to truly grind with them because I feel as a player specialization is what carries me and works best for me. Some people prefer to be a jack of all trades, which is fine if it works for them too.

I study up on other characters a lot, but I just don't play a lot of characters extensively.
I kind of go about it the same way. I pride myself on running the gamut and learning my pieces and bits of everyone because I'm addicted to the diversity and I have the attention span of a bird, but at the end of the day when things get serious, I always find myself going back to Doomsday and Deathstroke above all others. I know how to play over half the cast, but I always end up plotting in my head in terms of how I'd play the MU with one of those two and just go about it with the different tools to see what works and what doesn't. If nothing else, playing the field makes it a lot easier to work out the MU's with my mains because it gives me that extra perspective from the different angles.

I play NW so when I lose I can blame it on his shitiness.

I love the character, he's fun to play and as much as I downplay him, I think he isn't as bad as most make him out to be. Sure he has a couple 4-6s and doesn't really beat anyone important, but that doesn't mean he's a shitter. I'd rather lose with NW then win with someone like Lantern or Aquaman.

Also to touch on what 16 bit said another thing that's scary about PPJ is that he just doesn't care. I played him online a few weeks ago (just as legit as offline) and we ran Lex vs NW. I never really felt like I was in control, and that's really unnerving when you're playing against someone like that, especially in a tournament match.
Nightwing to me is like Liu Kang. Very balanced in that his strengths stand out just as much as his gimmicky flaws. But I feel you on that one; if I'm gonna go down, I'd rather it be with the ship I love sailing instead of one I took to sea just for the purpose of an extra cannon or a prettier sail, so to speak.
And players like PPJ who have that "Fuck it, I'm going to beat you" attitude are what make the game great for me. It's what makes me feel a lot better about taking this approach in IGAU than I did in MK because there are so many more different to approach a fight no matter what match you're running.
Also: I need a pocket Lex, too. He's one of the most setup-oriented characters I've ever seen in a fighter. I want that power. And that J3.
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
Administrator
but his very linear strategic approach and an inability to comfortably deal with heavy zoning, or characters who can use his Trait against him - Aquaman, Nightwing, Superman and Deathstroke for example, who can either shatter his armor, or keep him in hitstun long enough to run out its clock.
Which leads me to my reacquisition of Green Arrow, who can pick up the slack in the zoning and setups department, but his lack of high damage and power leaves him lacking against more muscled up characters like Bane and Superman.
If you're having trouble against "Aquaman, Nightwing, Superman" Arrow is not the solution.
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
Administrator
What PPJ is doing with his stable of oddball characters is super effective in IGAU right now. He is also a very clutch and confident tournament player so it's an extremely good combination. He 'll always do well.

This game is filled with metabreakers. Characters who by nature bypass "playing the game" and enforce their shit on you. This is strong as hell at any point in a game's life but especially now. It will be a long time before character specialists, especially those playing the more honest ones, can match that. That's what's so good about PPJ's approach. Even if you play one of the few characters that can contain Hawkgirl and make her play honest he has his other horseshit characters like Lex. It's pretty much impossible to calm PPJ down and play a match on entirely your terms. Character specialists will raise eventually though. It just takes a huge amount of mu knowledge. I do it with Catwoman, it's just tough. I'll get better at it as time goes on.
I definitely agree. I'm still trying to figure out my match ups with Arrow to see if I kan go with him 100%.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
If you're having trouble against "Aquaman, Nightwing, Superman" Arrow is not the solution.
Oh, I agree. They just happen to be 3 of the people who can give DD serious problems. I wouldn't play GA against any of them except maaaaybe Nightwing, but I still use Doomsday against him most of the time since I have the most XP against NW with him. Arrow's more a character to back DD up when adequate zoning can really change the outlook of the fight.
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
Administrator
Oh, I agree. They just happen to be 3 of the people who can give DD serious problems. I wouldn't play GA against any of them except maaaaybe Nightwing, but I still use Doomsday against him most of the time since I have the most XP against NW with him. Arrow's more a character to back DD up when adequate zoning can really change the outlook of the fight.
I don't really know if he'll help you out with that.. I guess it depends on the match up. He gets zoned out by Batman, Superman, Nightwing, etc.
 
Oh, I agree. They just happen to be 3 of the people who can give DD serious problems. I wouldn't play GA against any of them except maaaaybe Nightwing, but I still use Doomsday against him most of the time since I have the most XP against NW with him. Arrow's more a character to back DD up when adequate zoning can really change the outlook of the fight.
Green Arrow's zoning is pretty weak TBH. His fire arrows do ok damage on hit, but the chip is worth next to nothing and after every 3 shots you have to take a risk and load another set. He gets outzoned like crazy by half the cast, and the other half can punish his attempts to zone fairly easily.
 

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
I was thinking for a while about same stuff you've posted and I'm glad that someone who knows his stuff actually agrees with what my amateur's mind came up with. All in all, I like the idea that people may now start using 2-3 characters regularly even during tournaments as it makes for (excuse me for vulgarity) good show, which I enjoy.
And thinking about it, it brings another layer of "imbalance resistance" for metagame.

Now it's funny to remember early days of IGAU which was looking more like Space Invaders Tournament Edition and compare to where it is now. It's therapeutic in cases of gaming-related bitterness, I should say.