An "old man" reflects and asks for input

[Sundancer]

I haven't really been a competitive fighting player since MK3 and Tekken3. Apparently a lot has evolved since then (FYI, I'll be 40 in July which is what I mean by old). I played Tekken 5 when I was in Japan but rarely in the arcade (my opponents were always amused to be fighting a "gaijin")

I'm still learning terms or two, but I've worked to find terms many people use here.

My biggest issue is timing. I'm using the fightstick. I see people pull off combos and I think, okay, I do those moves within a certain time window and I should get the combo. There are some I can not do with consistency.

Example. I've been trying to learn Batgirl. I cannot cancel into her bolas...don't know how people time it. In my day we could look up combos on the young Internet or magazines, but mostly we just talked to people at the arcade and learned from watching them. Nowadays people make forums and videos but rarely can you see the hand movements with the buttons to grasp the timing. It used to be a matter of pressing the right buttons very fast but now I've learned ,in this game at least, you can't do that all the time...yet sometimes you have to.

I stink at online. I've spent hours practicing timing in the tutorial and feel the output I put in doesn't reflect the input. I don't want to be a tournament player--I just don't want to be embarrassed as much.

I have some questions.

1. Has working on other fighting games helped you on timing with this one?

2. How do people find combos? I can find some, but the ones I see here, try and fail at, I wonder how people find them in the first place. I mean, how do you know the combo you're exploring actually exists or if you're just getting the timing wrong? Example, For Batgirl, I can not do the d1xx,bf3

3 . What tips have you noticed in getting timing to work for you?

This Web site can be more technical than my goals but the it's informative and people here seem much more mature than other places like gamefaqs.

Thank you for reading and your feedback.

 

[cyke_out]

Sundancer
Welcome to TYM. I'm an old-ish guy myself (mid-30's), combo timing to me is really trial and error. If something is getting dropped, I just have to keep trying and tweak my timing, maybe try to do it earlier, or slower until it hits, and then after that, I just have to download it to muscle memory.

 

[Alien Substance]

>1
Could have. The timing was kind of strict in whatever Street Fighter had, and MK9's PS3-exclusive fighter: Kratos, has likely helped, with his timing-based high-damage combos.

>2
It just comes to you through understanding of the combo system and perseverance.

>3
I try not to rely on visual cues to time my combos; it would only be detrimental once I hop online and find the input latency messing me up. I use mental timing patterns to help perform combos.

I'm still a newbie to Injustice, and there are still plenty of combos in which I cannot grasp the timing of. Have you tried turning off Release Check or activating the Street Fighter-esque input mode? Adjusting those settings might help.

 

[miloPKL]

1. Has working on other fighting games helped you on timing with this one?

yes my background in MK and SF helped a lot with INJ


2. How do people find combos? I can find some, but the ones I see here, try and fail at, I wonder how people find them in the first place. I mean, how do you know the combo you're exploring actually exists or if you're just getting the timing wrong? Example, For Batgirl, I can not do the d1xx,bf3

when you find a character you love you want to explore that character so you can do the best you can at every opportunity. go into training and start being creative. see what strings link into what moves - and what moves and be Meter Burned into another attack - thats a very basic combo flow chart. string>MB Special>string/attack. its about creativity and perseverance


3 . What tips have you noticed in getting timing to work for you?

with injustice, you can 'dial in' your strings, similar to MK3, but dont go so fast. just pace yourself. string timing is easy. the only harder elements in combos are the juggles. your tekken background might aid you with that. but really its all practice dude.

 

[insomnia_ftw]

for d1xx bf3, you have to do the bf3 before the d1 even hits. This game doesn't let you hit-confirm for the most part. You enter the next input of a string before the last input connects.

 

[MashPotatoTower]

smells like formaldehyde in this thread
WELCOME!!! v<3

 

[xWEBSx]

Hey man..

It really depends on the fighting game you are playing. While many games share similarities each companies fighters have a distinct feel to them. The overall concepts are the same, however things like block stun, movement speed and fluidity of motion all differ. Not only that, but hitbox (part of the character that strikes the opponent) and hurtbox (part of your character that is able to take damage during a move or while blocking) is all different too. Example: in the street fighter series.. The character Vega/Claw fights with a claw on his hand.. That arm has very good reach, however if you look at the hitbox info it does not extend to the tip of his claw on MANY of his moves, but stops at where his hand stops. So if you did not know better, you would say that he is broken or its BS that that move did not hit.. When in fact the data shows that his claw animation is never "suppose" to hit. Now take a look at a character in Injustice- lets say Aquaman.. He has tremendous reach and it appears that his hitbox extends out the full length of his trident on many if his moves, it is just not an animation with no purpose.. So each company approaches it differently per title and per character (first example is Capcom, second is NRS) something GOOD that can be taken from that is.. Capcom, NRS, etc..tend to stick to the same formulas for their games.. If it is not broken, don't fix it

I give a lot of credit to players that play multiple games at a high level- specially cross developers simply due to the differences.

Being out of the scene so long, kudos for coming back and kudos for seeking advice...

My advice would be to pick and stick with a character.. Get the basics down and build from there.. Once the basics are down, then continue to build by incorporating more complex combos and chains. Savor each victory and learn from each defeat..And do not use envy to fuel you-OMG!! TOP PRO 1 WON LIKE THIS WITH THE JOKER, I HAVE TO WIN LIKE THAT WITH THE JOKER.. Bottom line- if something works for you.. USE IT!!! It is one thing to want to try to incorporate cool or effective combos into your game.. But you need basics first. DONT FORGET: you have to crawl before you run. And most importantly.. Have fun man..

 

[Sundancer]

Does anyone notice a difference in timing with a fightstick vs. a D-pad?

 

[xWEBSx]

Does anyone notice a difference in timing with a fightstick vs. a D-pad?

A noticeable difference... That takes training/timing to get use to... More so from pad to stick than stick to pad..

 

[SPECTRELIGHT]

I'm mid-thirties as well, grew up on SF and MK in the arcades on release, using American arcade parts that were mis-calibrated due to misuse. At times my ire gets the best of me as I am still learning & adjusting to Japanese sticks and my execution will be off due to the sensitivity and my lack of experience with them, which is one reason I may have lost a match. I'll be salty because I expect myself to be better than how I played. I'm learning to let go of the ire and focus on dissecting the reasons why I lost and begin working on them one at a time. It's not losing, it's how I lost that frustrates me.
Recently I played a whole night of matches with the rotating d-pad controller for 360 and it wasn't too bad. Some moves came out better than when using the stick, it just feels weird in terms of finger placement.
There was a hiatus from gaming for 5 years that I was forced to take and returning after a long time is definitely difficult, so I can relate to your situation. The evolution of the genre has become more technical and complex, as well as added a great deal of variety, and it's alot to "catch up" to.
My goal is to link up with local players who are hopefully more skilled and build skills with them, as well as top-players if my "Scorpion-Rage" hasn't fucked things up. Online play can be frustrating with lag, glitches and fighting against those who are casual gamers who aren't as fanatic about FGs and understanding the mechanics involved. From what I've gathered, this is the best way to improve...

As far as the stick transition, the more you do something, the more comfortable and thus, confident you are with the action, instrument, etc...

WEBS' advice is sound and concise.

Vagrant posted something a few days ago that is also incredibly good advice on improving...

LEVEL 1
PICK A CHARACTER
LEARN AND MEMORIZE ALL OF YOUR CHARACTERS NORMALS, STRINGS, AND SPECIAL MOVES
STUDY THE REACH AND SPACE COVERAGE OF ALL OF YOUR ATTACKS
FIND OUT WHAT TOOLS YOUR CHARACTER HAS THAT ARE THE MOST OBVIOUSLY USEFUL.
COME UP WITH A GENERAL GAMEPLAN OF HOW TO APPLY THESE TOOLS
LEARN YOUR PUNISHMENT AND BNB COMBOS
STUDY ALL OF THE STAGES AND COME UP WITH A "GAMEPLAN" FOR EACH STAGE.


LEVEL 2
STUDY YOUR CHARACTER’S MIX-UPS AND 50/50'S. THESE GUESSING GAMES ARE CRUCIAL TO INJUSTICE
LEARN HOW TO READ, STUDY, AND APPLY FRAME DATA TO YOUR GAMEPLAN. IT IS CRUCIAL IN FIGHTING GAMES.
COME UP WITH AND APPLY FRAME TRAPS TO YOUR PRESSURE GAME (THESE ARE KEY IN OPENING HIGH LEVEL OPONENTS UP)
START PRACTICING WHIFF PUNISHING WITH YOUR CHARACTER (THE OTHER KEY IN OPENING UP HIGH LEVEL OPONENTS)

LEVEL 3: THE NEVER ENDING LEVEL

EXPLORE MATCHUPS WITH YOUR CHARACTER

THIS CAN BE DONE IN PRACTICE MODE WITH THE RECORD FUNCTION TO SOME EXTENT BUT THERE IS NO BETTER WAY TO LEARN THEN TO FIND THE BEST POSSIBLE PLAYERS OF A CHARACTER AND ASK THEM TO RUN EXTENSIVE SETS WITH YOU. YOU CAN'T ALWAYS PLAY THE BEST REPRESENTATIVE BUT YOU CAN USUALLY FIND A COMPETENT PLAYER AT THE LEAST TO RUN SETS WITH YOU. AFTER THESE SETS WRITE DOWN WHAT WORKS AND WHAT DOESN'T AND WORK ON IT IN THE LAB. (DON'T GET DISCOURAGED IF YOU GET BODIED, THAT MEANS THERE IS STILL MORE FOR YOU TO LEARN). MAKE YOUR ADJUSTMENTS AND RUN THE MATCHUP MORE.

THEN DO THIS FOR EVERY MATCHUP IN THE GAME AND ADJUST YOUR STARTEGY ACCORDINGLY AS THE METAGAME EVOLVES AND CHANGES.

 

[Killzone]

Welcome to TYM, grandpa.
I'll answer your questions and my input could be interesting I guess, because I'm learning all the stuff as well, so I know how you feel!

1. Has working on other fighting games helped you on timing with this one?

I've tried playing other fighters like Capcom fighters and MK9, but Injustice is different than both of them.
It seems to be similar to MK9, because of the juggle heavy combo system (like in Tekken), but the timing on some of the stuff seems to be more strict than it is in MK9 for example.

In my opinion concentrate only on Injustice to learn the combo system in this game.

2. How do people find combos? I can find some, but the ones I see here, try and fail at, I wonder how people find them in the first place. I mean, how do you know the combo you're exploring actually exists or if you're just getting the timing wrong? Example, For Batgirl, I can not do the d1xx,bf3

Well, the easiest way to find combos is probably to know in which state some of the special attacks (or the meterburned versions) leave your opponents. Let's take Superman as an example. His combos will end rather quickly at mid screen, but do a meter burned version of Breath and he will freeze the opponent which leaves them open for easy combo extension.

Since you're even having problems executing the combos, you should simply check out bread and butter combos in the threads of the respective characters.
Try to do some of them and then, when you learn one combo or two you realize that it's actually quite simple. You realize that it's all about strings, which you have to chain together. A 123 can be chained into a special, which allows you to do yet another 123. Then you realize that after the special you could do the 12, instead of the 123 ... the second 123 would knock them down, but the 12 leaves them open for yet another cancelation into a special for even more damage / combo extension or something like that.

Batgirls D1xx BF3 ... linking the D1's into specials isn't that easy in the game and it's even harder for some characters than the others.
My advice would be to pick up Doomsday and try his D1 into the DF2. You basically have to do the D1 and from the down position already start rolling over to the right and do the 2. It's like one motion. It's NOT a cancel (well it is, but you know what I mean) ... You press 1 and then 2 while going down and from there to the right.
Doomsdays D1xxDF2 cancel seems to be quite good. Try to master that. If you can't master that, than don't even try other characters.

3 . What tips have you noticed in getting timing to work for you?

Picking other characters, LOL!
I wanted to main Nightwing at first, but canceling his stance switch trait is sooo weird sometimes. Doing his combos is rarely ever a problem, when it's about just one stance, but switching stances requires different timings on the specials and that's so weird.

I'm not sure how execution-heavy Batgirl is, but maybe you could try to pick up a different character for now, just to get used to the system and to the flow of the game. Doomsday and Green Lantern are considered as decent user-friendly characters.
It's about characters with combos which you can spam, against characters with combos, where you actually have to look for specific timings, since they're in a juggle state.

Also, when you're trying to execute a combo, always know this:
Your brain gets overloaded, while you're trying to do it. Learning combos is not about doing the entire combo directly at the beginning. Your brain understands it and could execute it, but your muscle memory just isn't there. You execute them slower, than you actually think you are, because your fingers can't keep up.

Do me a favor, go to the training mode and pick Nightwing. With Nightwing I want you to learn two combos. One in the Escrima stance and one in the Staff stance:

Escrima = F213 xx DF2 MB F3 J3 DB1 ... try to vary that one with J2 333 after the F3.
That combo opens the opponent up, launches him in the air with the special... the meter burn adds more damage. You bounce the opponent off the ground and jump up and continue to attack him. The first version you basically have to spam. You don't need to pay attention to the timing. Just spam everything, and for the second one you will have to include timing on the 333 after the J2, in order to hit all of the 3 attacks.

BUT ... learn it in pieces! Learn F213 over and over and over again, until you can do it without problems. Then add the DF2 and the meter burn over and over and over again.
You need to learn combos in pieces.

Staff = F11 (it's actually 1F1, but you can hold forward and hit 2 twice I think) ... However F11 DB2 MB B3 BF3
Here the cancelation is slightly strickter. You'll have to input the DB2 MB very faster after the 1F1. For me that's just sooo hard on the controller and much, much easier on the stick.
Once the opponent is in the air after the special, you'll have to "spam" the B3 and for the BF3 you need timing again. It's a very simle combo for solid 32% damage without any use of the meter.

One you've learned these two combos ... or mainly the first one - you will understand your options. You will see that after the F213 xx DF2 MB F3 you could do other stuff. You could jump up with a 2, maybe try to do 22 and cancel that into DF2 for possibly even more damage!
Then you can also try to include some trait cancel combos, which can be tough with Nightwing most of the time. Don't try to do a full combo, but do something simple, just to find out how the timing is ... maybe you could start off in the Escrima stance with 22, do a 4 for the trait and cancel that into DB2!

But this is now really learning one specific character.
You can apply all of that to Batgirl of course, but Nightwing seems to be like an interesting choice, to unlock the combo potential of a character IMO.

It's just all about combining the strings.

This Web site can be more technical than my goals but the it's informative and people here seem much more mature than other places like gamefaqs.

Oh snap, sorry for calling you a grandpa, pops!