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Question - A-List A-List's pressure vs females.

T

TheArrow

Noob
I picked up A - List recently, and had a set with a Dvorah player. Iv'e heard of JC's hitbox issues, but had not experienced them until i picked him up. With the normal pressure, F3skrc into 11/12(1), s1 completely whiffs. Meaning that obviously, it does not jail if she is crouch blocking. Is there a solution to this? Or do people simply not crouch block Johnny that much for obvious reasons?
 
Somea2V

Somea2V

Thread Referee
TheArrow said:
I picked up A - List recently, and had a set with a Dvorah player. Iv'e heard of JC's hitbox issues, but had not experienced them until i picked him up. With the normal pressure, F3skrc into 11/12(1), s1 completely whiffs. Meaning that obviously, it does not jail if she is crouch blocking. Is there a solution to this? Or do people simply not crouch block Johnny that much for obvious reasons?
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The answer... is yes and no. The answer to crouch whiff issues is F2 or neutral pokes like D1 and D3, which are negative but -3 and -1 respectively. You make your opponent fear crouch blocking with full combos off F2 and to be wary of poking by using Cage's faster pokes.

His whiff issues are annoying but there are ways around it. An alternative in the neutral would be using 21SKRC as it'll connect on hit, doesn't have as much whiffing issues as S1 strings and leaves you at +5ish for tick throws/armor baiting.

And finally, welcome to the Cage Club good sir!

EDIT: Apologies, they're both -3. I was thinking about D4. D4 is also an excellent tool for training your opponent to block low. For counter poking, I would stick to D1 and D3 if you're already on top of them.
 
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thlityoursloat

thlityoursloat

kick kick
If your opponent is crouch blocking a lot then they clearly have no idea about the MU lol. You can always check/full combo them with F24 if that's what they're doing.
 
EGP Awesomo

EGP Awesomo

R.T.S.D
thlityoursloat said:
If your opponent is crouch blocking a lot then they clearly have no idea about the MU lol. You can always check/full combo them with F24 if that's what they're doing.
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Thats not easy to do when they're doing the armor OS to blow up your f24, its just as much a read on their part as it is yours. But I feel that in the MUs against females cage's main mix up is f3 and throw
 
Somea2V

Somea2V

Thread Referee
EGP Awesomo said:
Thats not easy to do when they're doing the armor OS to blow up your f24, its just as much a read on their part as it is yours. But I feel that in the MUs against females cage's main mix up is f3 and throw
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That's a valid mix up on every opponent.

Option selects... what ever happened to people making reads.
 
EGP Awesomo

EGP Awesomo

R.T.S.D
Somea2V said:
That's a valid mix up on every opponent.

Option selects... what ever happened to people making reads.
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Of course it is, but due to the strings starting with 1 being taken out of the equation when your opponent has meter , you need to rely more on the more basic mix ups as opposed to the scary stuff cage does against everyone else (i.e. males)
 
Somea2V

Somea2V

Thread Referee
EGP Awesomo said:
Of course it is, but due to the strings starting with 1 being taken out of the equation when your opponent has meter , you need to rely more on the more basic mix ups as opposed to the scary stuff cage does against everyone else (i.e. males)
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Oh, I know. But I tend to use every mix up and tool regardless of opponent. Keeps enemies on their toes.
 
Asodimazze

Asodimazze

https://twitter.com/AlfioZacco
TheArrow said:
I picked up A - List recently, and had a set with a Dvorah player. Iv'e heard of JC's hitbox issues, but had not experienced them until i picked him up. With the normal pressure, F3skrc into 11/12(1), s1 completely whiffs. Meaning that obviously, it does not jail if she is crouch blocking. Is there a solution to this? Or do people simply not crouch block Johnny that much for obvious reasons?
Click to expand...
The s1 whiffing problem is present against some males too, not just females. Be careful when you play against Scorpion, Kano, Sub.

With perfect execution f3skrc f24 can jail, but it's super hard so might not be too reliable in match when the opponent option selects armor. This could also turn up in your favour if you know it though, so in that case just bait it and punish.

After nutpunch you can go for 333skrc, f3, 214. S2 doesn't whiff against any crouch blocking character and does decent chip damage.
 
Scott The Scot

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
The thing about the option selects in this situation is that the F3 is still plus. So any reversal that comes out can be blocked and punished (unless it's safe) to deter them from doing the option select.
 
Zionix

Zionix

AKA Ponkster
TheArrow said:
I picked up A - List recently, and had a set with a Dvorah player. Iv'e heard of JC's hitbox issues, but had not experienced them until i picked him up. With the normal pressure, F3skrc into 11/12(1), s1 completely whiffs. Meaning that obviously, it does not jail if she is crouch blocking. Is there a solution to this? Or do people simply not crouch block Johnny that much for obvious reasons?
Click to expand...
My advice to you as you are new to cage is that after 114 SKRC always do F3(4) it jails from it, closes the distance and if they are poking out and you are a few frames late on the cancel it catches them and converts to a full combo.

12(1) cancel also needs to be mastered this can jail into F3 or another 12(1). This is important because 11 doesn't lead to a full combo whereas 12(1) has enough hit stun when cancelled to be a full combo.

DJT is playing cage with a nice style, he doesn't waste meter cancelling and would rather cancel once per cycle and use ex forceballs to stay plus and then make the opponent make a mistake (armor or poke out) then because he didn't use all his stamina he capitalises and uses the stamina for a full conversion. This might be how cage is played optimally, its a little like mileena (b12) using f2 and f3 to control space and slowly chipping the opponent down with 114 ex-forceballs and throws. Learning the range on F2 is crucial as well it outranges d4 and leads to a full combo and is safe. You can even jail 12(1) off of F24 or F2 but its a tight link so usually more experienced cages will use this, its better to just block confirm f24 into ex forceballs.

Ultimately playing a-list yolo has tons of gaps for OS and most solid players will blow you up. Takes patience and good reads on your opponent to play cage properly and at a high level without getting blown up in the gaps. Play against the AI on very hard and you will see you how many of JC strings are ass on block against crouching hitboxes. Kano isn't jailed in 114 at all (can poke out of the 4), scorpion is another low hitbox character which makes you change your style and is male, subzero can d4 under most jc's stuff. If your opponent is always crouching f3 or f2 are your best options for pressure/combos and 214 for consistant chip.
 
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T

TheArrow

Noob
Zionix said:
My advice to you as you are new to cage is that after 114 SKRC always do F3(4) it jails from it, closes the distance and if they are poking out and you are a few frames late on the cancel it catches them and converts to a full combo.

12(1) cancel also needs to be mastered this can jail into F3 or another 12(1). This is important because 11 doesn't lead to a full combo whereas 12(1) has enough hit stun when cancelled to be a full combo.

DJT is playing cage with a nice style, he doesn't waste meter cancelling and would rather cancel once per cycle and use ex forceballs to stay plus and then make the opponent make a mistake (armor or poke out) then because he didn't use all his stamina he capitalises and uses the stamina for a full conversion. This might be how cage is played optimally, its a little like mileena (b12) using f2 and f3 to control space and slowly chipping the opponent down with 114 ex-forceballs and throws. Learning the range on F2 is crucial as well it outranges d4 and leads to a full combo and is safe. You can even jail 12(1) off of F24 or F2 but its a tight link so usually more experienced cages will use this, its better to just block confirm f24 into ex forceballs.

Ultimately playing a-list yolo has tons of gaps for OS and most solid players will blow you up. Takes patience and good reads on your opponent to play cage properly and at a high level without getting blown up in the gaps. Play against the AI on very hard and you will see you how many of JC strings are ass on block against crouching hitboxes. Kano isn't jailed in 114 at all (can poke out of the 4), scorpion is another low hitbox character which makes you change your style and is male, subzero can d4 under most jc's stuff. If your opponent is always crouching f3 or f2 are your best options for pressure/combos and 214 for consistant chip.
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Cheers, really good reply. Do you know where i can find some footage on DJT's cage outside of his ESL matches?
 
Asodimazze

Asodimazze

https://twitter.com/AlfioZacco
legion666 said:
Thanks for reply, what about Quan Chi? I remember playing my friend's a-least, I was playing Summoner and I was able to d1 in the 114 string before the last hit.
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No whiffing issues vs Quan Chi. It must have happened because of some weird distance where the last hit of 114 wasn't able to connect
 
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