Question 2 to bait Soul Crush?

[Owerbart]

Hello everybody. So, long time ago I discussed with zaf in the Ermac's forums about "whiff baiting" force pushes. Both of us used it from time to time.

The idea is quite simple: being at mid, 4/5 of screen, you throw to the air a 1, so your opponent thinks you've messed up your inputs and he desperatly dashes to get in, thinking they may take advantage of your "mistake". But that's exactly what you want, because inmediately after Ermac's 1 recovers you execute a nice forcepush sending your opponent back.

Now, I was thinking about doing the exact same thing with Raven's soul crush, now even more reliable because of her extended range. 7/8 of screen distance, throw yourself a standing 2, just to slap the air. Your opponent might think he could gain some space but then you come with the Soul Crush. This might even be more consistent since in Injustice: Gods Among Us dashes cannot be canceled.

Furthermore, why no trying this in demon mode? throw a 2, expect them to dash and then the full screen singularity comes. Standing 2 and Singularity look quite similar during execution.

Is this gimmick even viable in Injustice? What do you think?

 

[Mr. Mileena]

Gimmick.
Not to mention, in demon mode, singularity is slower startup.

One shouldn't dash against raven much unless they block her SC or if the Raven can't read the dashes to where they punish with SC.
Also, some characters like Frost and Aquaman can punish a blocked SC no matter where they are with Spike/Trident

 

[zaf]

i do this with d1,d2 and 2 lol.

 

[PPJ]

i like gimmicks, this is cool

 

[Owerbart]

Gimmick.
Not to mention, in demon mode, singularity is slower startup.

One shouldn't dash against raven much unless they block her SC or if the Raven can't read the dashes to where they punish with SC.
Also, some characters like Frost and Aquaman can punish a blocked SC no matter where they are with Spike/Trident

Hey man would you actually consider Punishable by Aquaman? It's a 2 frame window I believe. Also, could it be too much to ask you for some details on how to play this MU? thanks in advance.

 

[Mr. Mileena]

Hey man would you actually consider Punishable by Aquaman? It's a 2 frame window I believe. Also, could it be too much to ask you for some details on how to play this MU? thanks in advance.

Online I can see why, but offline he can punish it more consistently.

I used to think it was in Raven's Favor or 5-5.
It is not in her favor at all.
It could be bad for her.

It's very hard to open up aquaman. He has good reach, damage, anti airs, etc.
It is never safe to transform into demon stance nakedly, but you have to get some chip at times.
His trait annoying to deal with and messes up her demon DB2, strings, etc.

Once he has the life lead, he can sit on it/ and or approach you slowly.
He can zone you out with trident spikes as long as he is out of SC range. You never want to be full screen away from him unless you are in demon mode, but still. 1/2-3/4 of the screen is where you want to be.

It's a turtle MU
He has the life lead, he sits on it.
you have the life lead, you sit on it.
Although, his trait allows him to defend the life lead easier, and his reach is annoying as well.

I'd probably say it's slightly in his favor

 

[Owerbart]

Online I can see why, but offline he can punish it more consistently.

I used to think it was in Raven's Favor or 5-5.
It is not in her favor at all.
It could be bad for her.

It's very hard to open up aquaman. He has good reach, damage, anti airs, etc.
It is never safe to transform into demon stance nakedly, but you have to get some chip at times.
His trait annoying to deal with and messes up her demon DB2, strings, etc.

Once he has the life lead, he can sit on it/ and or approach you slowly.
He can zone you out with trident spikes as long as he is out of SC range. You never want to be full screen away from him unless you are in demon mode, but still. 1/2-3/4 of the screen is where you want to be.

It's a turtle MU
He has the life lead, he sits on it.
you have the life lead, you sit on it.
Although, his trait allows him to defend the life lead easier, and his reach is annoying as well.

I'd probably say it's slightly in his favor

I wasn't playing this MU online, but maybe after some practice I could see it being punished consistently. Spamming your projectile is a no-go, right?

 

[Mr. Mileena]

I wasn't playing this MU online, but maybe after some practice I could see it being punished consistently. Spamming your projectile is a no-go, right?

you can if you have a comfortable life lead for meter, but you guys can trade (projectile vs spike), he will get slightly stunned but you will get knocked down, allowing him to come closer.

 

[Owerbart]

you can if you have a comfortable life lead for meter, but you guys can trade (projectile vs spike), he will get slightly stunned but you will get knocked down, allowing him to come closer.

So lifelead is the key. Thanks for the input man.

 

[Sami]

You can also opt for using slightly less damaging combos to get around his trait - ensure the first hit takes him off the ground (granted that's most of Raven's special moves) and he can't wriggle out of the combo.

It's like dealing with Doomsday's trait in reverse. You shouldn't try and juggle Doomsday when his trait is up (because you can't), and you shouldn't try and do ground combo strings on Aquaman

 

[Nerubian]

Online I can see why, but offline he can punish it more consistently.

I used to think it was in Raven's Favor or 5-5.
It is not in her favor at all.
It could be bad for her.

I think against Aquaman you should be 1/2 screen at farthest playing the wiff punish game. I personally like to be just outside of his overhead trident move - as this allows for total full combo wiff punishes on any move that he throws out. If they do raw 'from the deep' to check you and you block it, you can punish it from this distance whereas I find that at 3/4 it'll sometimes not come out fast enough if you aren't perfect on your reversal timing of it. I'd rather end a combo with a f222 demon stance or a regular singularity then end at 3/4 screen with a standard f222 into soul crush. I especially don't like ending with f2233 as you then half to get back into wiff punish range.

You cannot outzone an Aquaman - it isn't going to work. Everything he does beat Ravens zoning game. Fireballs are useless, teleports are awful against his large hitbox normals and he can easily outcheck you. It's not a bad matchup I'd say, but it reminds me of the GL matchup. No one can jump, you're playing tons of footsies and it's extremely lame. It's a pure fundementals matchup. The hardest part of this matchup is if you ever get full-screen to 3/4s. It's a bad time, you're going to get punished for moving - just like Raven wants to do against most matchups.

 

[1man3letters]

seeing this thread made me smile
havnt looked into raven yet so dunno how well it would work for her but it just brought back memories of me doing that mileena, faking messing up a air sai to punish there punishing attempt, good times

 

[testyourpatience]

that might be a good idea. it's worth a shot, anyways. that's what all the "high level" sf players do. it looks like their characters are having seizures just standing there mashing buttons, but it's because they're trying to "fake fireball."

you might even take it a step forward by doing something like press down and then 2 to make them think you're lagging. not really a go to thing but it could have its uses.