121 or 22, Which is Better?

[Aidan]

I was just wondering which is better 121, or 22. So I've complied a list to compare both of these move's pros and cons.

Pros of 22
-2 and 22 are 0 on block
-gives a low mix-up (granted it's a terrible mix-up, but better than none)
- 22f1 and 22b4 do more chip than 121, but not 1212
-on block you can do f1 which provides knock back which makes up for greater block disadvantage than 121
-22f1 (-7) and 22f4(-1) has less block disadvantage than 1212
- causes less scaling than 121, and more damage than 12
- easier to land VB after 22 juggle
- 22f1 has a longer range than 1212

Cons of 22
- whiffs high without f1 or b4
- slower start up than 121
- harder to hit-confirm than 121
- 2 has a hit box than 1 (not sure about this one, but it is on blocking opponents)
- 2 is harder to AA with
- cannot special cancel off of 22f1 or 22b4
- 22 has more stagger frames, so any moves that hit during that stagger animation will be scaled down
- 22 on hit causes opponent to stagger backward which causes some attacks like 33 to whiff

Pros of 121
- has 9 frame start up as opposed to 11
- 2 in 121 hits mid
- 1212 does more chip and provides push back
- easier to AA with 1
- 121/2 does not cause on knock down on standing opponents
- can cancel specials off of 1212
- 1212 builds more meter on block
- no stagger on hit, following moves will not be scaled

Cons of 1212
- 121 is -1 and 1212 is -13
- 1 is -1 on block
- no high/low mix-up
- 121 causes greater scaling than 22
- 121 has no knock back on block

Thoughts?

Don't blow me up, I'm just curious. If I missed anything be sure to let me know.

 

[Wildabeast]

Personally, I only use 121 as a quick punish and never use 22.

 

[Playpal]

I rarely use 121, not because it's a bad string but mainly because the mix ups off it are pretty minimal. I use 22 a lot more, though I only use it off a jip. S.1 is faster and will hit some characters that are crouch blocking, but for the most part 22 is just better. 22 vb jails, whereas 121 doesn't. 22 also isn't very hard to hit confirm off jip, which is where you'll most likely be using it unless the opponent likes to block high all the time for some reason. 1212 isn't a very good string simply because you're at way too much disadvantage for a pushback that's not big enough to justify it. If you like cancelling your strings into teleport, 22 would be the best string since you're only at -3.

Hands down best string would be f24 though.

 

[Chaosphere]

I rarely use 121, not because it's a bad string but mainly because the mix ups off it are pretty minimal. I use 22 a lot more, though I only use it off a jip. S.1 is faster and will hit some characters that are crouch blocking, but for the most part 22 is just better. 22 vb jails, whereas 121 doesn't. 22 also isn't very hard to hit confirm off jip, which is where you'll most likely be using it unless the opponent likes to block high all the time for some reason. 1212 isn't a very good string simply because you're at way too much disadvantage for a pushback that's not big enough to justify it. If you like cancelling your strings into teleport, 22 would be the best string since you're only at -3.

Hands down best string would be f24 though.

Of course f24 is the best string. It's safe, you can superman if they don't hold block, come back in for more pressure, it sets up a great spacing for anti-air if they jump at you. Man... such a good string.

121 and 1212 will get you blown up if they jump. Sometimes it will catch them and knock them to the ground but then your stupid arms are still flailing about while they can get a wake-up attack. Make sure that if you actually do finish out with 1212 that you cancel it into teleport every time. At least it's safe on block, AND if the 1212 hits then you are at +4 advantage after the teleport. This string IS great to interrupt pressure though. Even kabal's NDC pressure, as long as it's not a 2~NDC then you can interrupt with 121~shocker and full combo them. You can also do this during scorpion's 111 pressure and i'm sure multiple characters' pressure. I've been practicing it but you really shouldn't try it unless you know the exact timing. Standing 1 is 9 frames which is pretty damn good in my opinion.

I have a lot of mixups I use. I will use 33~vb (or ex-vb if I have meter and they are a low hitbox character) until I see them crouching under the vb, then I'll do a 334~teleport to hopefully get a combo off of it. If they are conditioned to let go of block after the 33 then this will hit. Kind of a silly little mixup, but it works. You can do the same mixup with b31~vb and b312 but it's just that b312 leaves you at -3 on block instead of -1 like 334.

If I don't want to use meter on a low hitbox character then of course I will use f23~vb. This hits pretty much everyone except for reptile.

gotta do some work, I'll finish this up later.