Question - Tempest 1,1,2, ex hat pressure string vs f2,3 during pressure

[Harlequin969]

I've been watching some top 8s from the recent tournaments and there's a lot of tempest Lao. That's great an all but the go to pressure string seems to be 1,1,2 EX orbiting hat. I know oribiting hat is plus a bunch on block but what I don't understand is why no one ever uses f2,3,hat. I know it has more startup but if you have the plus frames from EX orbiting hat this would throw off your opponent as you keep them in the blockstring. f2,3 is a mid into a low that combos into hat or into spin for full combo. Is there a reason that I don't understand why people don't go for this to add another level threat during the pressure strings.

 

[Drew9795]

It has a gap in between f2, and 3.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

11212 meter building doe

 

[Harlequin969]

It has a gap in between f2, and 3.

That's something I didn't know. How long of a gap is it? Is it something you have to see coming or is it something you can react to?

 

[Harlequin969]

11212 meter building doe

Yeah but I see people on full meter just do the same pressure string, burn all three bars, gain a bar and then use that last bar and we're back to square one.

 

[iKritikal]

Because if you do a string into exhat then try to f23 the hat wont be back in time to cancel it off of the f23, and f23 is -8 by itself

Edit:f23 is -22

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Yeah but I see people on full meter just do the same pressure string, burn all three bars, gain a bar and then use that last bar and we're back to square one.

More chip

 

[Big Pampering]

First of all it is 112124 and not 11212. 11212 ex hat spin gets armored out of. The only legit blockstrings into ex hat spin are 112124, b32, b321. B321 has a gap, but is only a problem against cassie cages power flip. Other strings have a gap in between

 

[Big Pampering]

Because if you do a string into exhat then try to f23 the hat wont be back in time to cancel it off of the f23, and f23 is -8 by itself

Youre thinking about f21 not f23. f23 is minus a billion enough for people to full combo punish it.

 

[Harlequin969]

Youre thinking about f21 not f23. f23 is minus a billion enough for people to full combo punish it.

So after forcing your oponent to block 112124 EX hat, is it not worth it to throw out f2,3 using the plus frames from EX Hat to see if you can get a combo. Also f2,3 can cancel into hat or exhat which is -3 to +22 on block.

 

[iKritikal]

So after forcing your oponent to block 112124 EX hat, is it not worth it to throw out f2,3 using the plus frames from EX Hat to see if you can get a combo. Also f2,3 can cancel into hat or exhat which is -3 to +22 on block.

Yeah, but your hat wont be back so you cant cancel the f23 into anything but tele

 

[Big Pampering]

So after forcing your oponent to block 112124 EX hat, is it not worth it to throw out f2,3 using the plus frames from EX Hat to see if you can get a combo. Also f2,3 can cancel into hat or exhat which is -3 to +22 on block.

Why would the opponent suddenly let go of block if you are at +27? Even i the opponent lets go of blok and you go for another b321 or 112124 you get a combo anyways, so there is no point in doing f23, it has a gap in between so you are only giving your opponent a free card to get out of your pressure and blow you up.

Again F23 has a gap in between, you can get blown up before your ex hat even comes out.

 

[YoShadowFiend]

f2,3 has alot of gaps. it's even worse with since alot of tempest strings can be interrupted with ex or backdashes.

1,1,2 and b2 pressure is the most legit using tempest. as it is a true blockstring

 

[Harlequin969]

Yeah, but your hat wont be back so you cant cancel the f23 into anything but tele

That's if they block it. If you manage to mix them up with the low and go into regular hat. Do f2, 3 again and it will hit and by the time that comes out hat will have returned for spin into full combo.

 

[Harlequin969]

Why would the opponent suddenly let go of block if you are at +27? Even i the opponent lets go of blok and you go for another b321 or 112124 you get a combo anyways, so there is no point in doing f23, it has a gap in between so you are only giving your opponent a free card to get out of your pressure and blow you up.

Again F23 has a gap in between, you can get blown up before your ex hat even comes out.

I only say to go for f2, 3 because most people seem to stand block the 112124EXhat. If they block f2, and don't block the 3 which is a low it goes into combo. If you condition someone to stand block the block string twice in a row then go f23 the low can throw them off leading into a combo.

 

[Big Pampering]

I only say to go for f2, 3 because most people seem to stand block the 112124EXhat. If they block f2, and don't block the 3 which is a low it goes into combo. If you condition someone to stand block the block string twice in a row then go f23 the low can throw them off leading into a combo.

people can visually confirm the f23 string and block low.

 

[Big Pampering]

Also not only will they just block the low, opponents experienced in the matchup will just blow you up before the low in f23 comes out. Do you understand what '' a gap'' in between the string means?

 

[Harlequin969]

people can visually confirm the f23 string and block low.

Then that's the issue. Alright. I guess that's the issue. I didn't think the low came out slow enough that it could be reacted to even during the pressure. But then that's what serpates top players from me and most people I play.

I get what a gap is but I don't know how much of a gap. Sometimes a gap could simply be I know it's coming so I'm going to be ready for it versus I see the gap therefore I can react to it. I haven't seen a lot of strings with gaps in them and the few times I see them I figured it was just from people who knew the match up and not from people reacting to it on the spot.

 

[Big Pampering]

Then that's the issue. Alright. I guess that's the issue. I didn't think the low came out slow enough that it could be reacted to even during the pressure. But then that's what serpates top players from me and most people I play.

I get what a gap is but I don't know how much of a gap. Sometimes a gap could simply be I know it's coming so I'm going to be ready for it versus I see the gap therefore I can react to it. I haven't seen a lot of strings with gaps in them and the few times I see them I figured it was just from people who knew the match up and not from people reacting to it on the spot.

Go to training mode pick kung lao as your opponent, set the opponent to always block, reversal on and with ex spin as reversal move. Do F23 on the blocking opponent and see what happens.

 

[YoShadowFiend]

I get what a gap is but I don't know how much of a gap. Sometimes a gap could simply be I know it's coming so I'm going to be ready for it versus I see the gap therefore I can react to it. I haven't seen a lot of strings with gaps in them and the few times I see them I figured it was just from people who knew the match up and not from people reacting to it on the spot.

one way to tell when and where a gap is present in a string you are testing out.
go to practice mode. pick a character with a good reversal a.i(Lao Vortex or Cassie Flip Kick) go to A.I options, turn on the reversal mode and test your blockstrings against the dummy

 

[YoShadowFiend]

Go to training mode pick kung lao as your opponent, set the opponent to always block, reversal on and with ex spin as reversal move. Do F23 on the blocking opponent and see what happens.

damn i was too late lol

 

[Harlequin969]

Go to training mode pick kung lao as your opponent, set the opponent to always block, reversal on and with ex spin as reversal move. Do F23 on the blocking opponent and see what happens.

Now I'm understanding my intial issue with it. With f2 being blocked the reveral happens. I usually land the f2 making the 3 happen always which was my confusion. Thanks for showing me a way to see it on my end