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Discussion Is being able to cancel a D4 into a special; too strong?

Should future games have D4 cancels?

  • Total voters
    90
Zionix

Zionix

AKA Ponkster
Question in the title.

Shinnok, Scorpion, Sub-zero, Alien, Kotal and Tremor are the some of biggest culprits.

Its a meta that shouldn't be in the game. 6-10 frame pokes into specials some of which can launch for a full combo really defeats the purpose of pokes being negative.

If I block a low poke it should be my turn, there shouldn't be another meta game as to whether its been cancelled and I can attack back.

This is D4s specifically, where its a lot harder to whiff punish, the other buttons I don't care about because I have the option to whiff punish.

I believe most characters are down on the tier list because they don't have a true mid, and if your don't have a move like Kotals b1 or Cages F3 its much harder to make your opponent respect your options.

TL:DR D4s; fast, low profiling, far reaching and cancel-able. Is it right?

Special mention, D4 into Ice Clone shuts downs far too many characters in the roster.
 
hkriderz

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
I agree it's dumb. It adds another layer to the counter poking game that we probably don't need. But it can be armored. Shinnok tho... -_-

and BTW d4 ice clone is one of the most punishable cancels next to 123 clone. It does catch a lot of people though. Just saying ;)
 
Tweedy

Tweedy

Noob
I think people really have a problem with this, because it wasn't as relevant in MK9? It seems like people think that whatever MK9 did is law.

It's only an issue when people can mix off of it imo. Alien, Kung Jin, Kotal, Leatherface to a lesser extent.

Next lets get a thread about how not having player 1 advantage is wack.
 
Last edited:
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Tweedy said:
I think people really have a problem with this, because it wasn't as relevant in MK9? It seems like people think that whatever MK9 did is law.

It's only an issue when people can mix off of it imo. Alien, Kung Jin, Kotal, Leatherface to a less extent.

Next lets get a thread about how not having player 1 advantage is wack.
Click to expand...
Hehehe, D3 Db1 is fucking hilarious.
 
KingHippo

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
Tweedy said:
I think people really have a problem with this, because it wasn't as relevant in MK9? It seems like people think that whatever MK9 did is law.

It's only an issue when people can mix off of it imo. Alien, Kung Jin, Kotal, Leatherface to a less extent.

Next lets get a thread about how not having player 1 advantage is wack.
Click to expand...
The funny thing is, one of the very best characters in the game made use of this to an insane degree (Sonya).

This seems like another growing pain of adding non universal moves into the game. We see it with jump attacks too; losing the universal nature of moves from MK9 has somehow tricked people into believing that certain moves now need to go when they were completely at ease with them for many years.
 
YoloRoll1stHit

YoloRoll1stHit

Publicly Educated
Be glad it doesn't combo
Look at Injustice. It's the dumbest game of having SAFE cancellable and comboable high crushing long range 7f low pokes
But I do think that having a mix up off d4 like Alien or Kotal do is dumb. We're gonna go all the way back to our 50/50 complaint again. So let's nerf 50/50s in this game and everything else will be alright.
 
Tanno

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
Well, this is how the game works. It's due of the Short Directional Buttons. Half of the kast do have this special ability.

You saw Sonicfox spamming against Kevodaman with his Alien the D3 into Acid Spit. A lot of people use this to get the first hit to earn the 2nd bar as fast as possible to their advantage.

IMO, this kind of ability is similar to Street Fighter's combined string.
 
SylverRye

SylverRye

Official Loop Kang Main
Being able to cancel into a special off of any crouching poke is stupid imo. More mind games in a game full of mind games. But eh what can ya do.
 
ChaosTheory

ChaosTheory

A fat woman came into the shoe store today...
Tweedy said:
I think people really have a problem with this, because it wasn't as relevant in MK9?
Click to expand...
Where is this coming from? They were all over the place in MK9.

Sub-Zero, Smoke, Reptile, Sonya, Kitana, Jax, Shang... actually it's harder to think of characters not using them off the top of my head.

I guess there weren't really any OH/low mix-ups off them if that's what you mean. But there was big time mileage gained from canceled pokes.
 
Damaja325

Damaja325

Stylin' & Low Profilin'
i think poke cancelling in general is just cancer. if it were up to me i'd remove the mechanic completely. adds a dumb mind game to counter poking and for some characters that can make a 50/50 out of it it's kinda excessive imo.
 
Trauma_and_Pain

Trauma_and_Pain

Filthy Casual
As long as pokes can't combo into a special, it's fine.

Should it be in future games? I don't really care either way. I voted yes. I have no real problem with it. Specials can't normally full combo a person unless:

  1. they are enhanced, meaning this tactic risks meter for possibly nothing if the opponent simply blocks
  2. the special is really unsafe, meaning you risk getting punished if the opponent simply blocks
Right now the downside to doing this is that if the opponent is hit by the poke, and you cancel the poke into a special, the opponent can still block the special. So you poked them, did maybe 2% chip and are now probably negative. Congratz I guess. In this scenario you would've been better off just poking and using the plus frames to do something.

This is the counter to it being useful on block--and it isn't even that useful on block when you account for risk/reward.

I main Ferra/Torr and we actually have a special which is about +10 on block. I low poke into it sometimes, but all it really does is give me my turn when it works. It certainly doesn't give me a full combo unless I enhance (which I never do because it's not worth it).
 
J

jax8295

Noob
"I believe most characters are down on the tier list because they don't have a true mid, and if your don't have a move like Kotals b1 or Cages F3 its much harder to make your opponent respect your options."

Yes this is so true, I speak from so much experience as a Jax/Kotal main. I've seen so many fucking scrubs just uppercut me when I try to get in their face and put the pressure on them with Jax. He just lacks a good safe mid to stop people from ducking and upper cutting. But then when I use Kotal it's just like " Nope, better stop ducking and mashing uppercut unless you wanna get hit by my B1 or F1. Better show some respect for the title or get rekt BITCH."
 
GLoRToR

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
Zionix said:
Question in the title.

Shinnok, Scorpion, Sub-zero, Alien, Kotal and Tremor are the some of biggest culprits.

Its a meta that shouldn't be in the game. 6-10 frame pokes into specials some of which can launch for a full combo really defeats the purpose of pokes being negative.

If I block a low poke it should be my turn, there shouldn't be another meta game as to whether its been cancelled and I can attack back.

This is D4s specifically, where its a lot harder to whiff punish, the other buttons I don't care about because I have the option to whiff punish.

I believe most characters are down on the tier list because they don't have a true mid, and if your don't have a move like Kotals b1 or Cages F3 its much harder to make your opponent respect your options.

TL:DR D4s; fast, low profiling, far reaching and cancel-able. Is it right?

Special mention, D4 into Ice Clone shuts downs far too many characters in the roster.
Click to expand...
This is not a yes or no thing, it vastly depends on what else the game has going on.
In SF doing a low fwd into hadoken is mainstay, but a mileena overhead armored launcher after a d4 when she's one of 4 out of 50+ characters that has it, is probably not a good idea.
 
Braindead

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
Eldriken said:
I think it's dumb, but by God do I make use of that shit as Kotal. A 6f d4 with that kind of range that I can cancel into an OH/low and EX the OH for a full combo if the person guessed wrong? GET REKT, YE OLDE FECK.
Click to expand...
It's a terrible risk/reward in your favor IMO. Not worth it. You're making your semi-safe d4 full combo punishable to get a knockdown and some % of damage.

In general it's not that bad. 50/50s make everyone salty but canceling d4s into specials is not too strong.

Also @Zionix you say Scorpion gets mileage off it? Which specials are you talking about with Scorpion?
 
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