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Why does Sonic Fox win everything?

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ChoseDeath

ChoseDeath

Seriously Casual Player.
This certainly isn't the first time something like this has happened. Daigo in SFIV, Zero in Smash. The best example of this I would say was Justin Wong in MvC2. Dude literally did not lose a tournament for two (three?) years. Through a massive variety of factors, done people just sync with some games. Combined with tons of time and hard work, a perfect combination of excellence is made.

To just say "others aren't working hard enough" is naive, disingenuous, and insulting.
 
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ILuvFightGames

ILuvFightGames

Noob
Eldriken said:
Say Fox practiced 500 hours and HoneyBee practiced 500 hours. They play a FT10 and Fox wins convincingly with a 10-0.

Tell me, what did all that practice amount to? Sometimes it just DOES NOT matter how much time you put into it.
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So you're saying no matter how much sonicfox practices SF 5 he's never going to beat kazunoko or any good SF 5 player?
 
TackyHaddock

TackyHaddock

Salty Mashers Krew
Imo the main distinguishing factor is Sonic's ability to download his opponent's patterns and get a read on them faster than anyone else can. Whereas many of us could start to really download an opponent's patterns after let's say a 5-10 game set, Sonic usually seems to be able to do so after a round or two (with rare exceptions like his match vs. Tekken master). This "x factor", combined with encyclopedic knowledge of every character in the game makes losses extremely few and far between.
 
RoboCop

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
Administrator
Premium Supporter
ILuvFightGames said:
So you're saying no matter how much sonicfox practices SF 5 he's never going to beat kazunoko or any good SF 5 player?
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No, he's saying practice can only take you so far. At some point, raw talent and other factors come into play that can affect the outcome just as much, if not more than, just the amount of time spent practicing.
 
Soul Bound X

Soul Bound X

Noob
ChoseDeath said:
This certainly isn't the first time something this has happened. Daigo in SFIV, Zero in Smash. The best example of say was Justin Wong in MvC2. Dude literally did not lose a tournament for two (three?) years. Through a massive variety of factors, done people just sync with some games. Combined with tons of time and hard work, a perfect combination of excellence is made.

To just say "others aren't working hard enough" is naive, disingenuous, and insulting.
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Yet one of the reasons you list as a requirement for a top player being good --> "hard work". You can say either one of two things. 1. That other top players simply aren't working hard enough. Or 2. The other players just weren't born smart enough. I think the 2nd one, which most people seem to be implying, is more insulting to me.
 
ILuvFightGames

ILuvFightGames

Noob
karaokelove said:
No, he's saying practice can only take you so far. At some point, raw talent and other factors come into play that can affect the outcome just as much, if not more than, just the amount of time spent practicing.
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Yea thanks, so basically the question remains the same, i can practice many hours but in the end talent and skill play a major role. That's why I included Kazunoko into the equation.
 
SidTheHaze

SidTheHaze

25th place Tempest Lao
Sonic fox wins because he is very smart and he plays mkx a lot, no doubt the man puts in a lot of work. He may be the best but he is by no means unbeatable, he's lost time and time again at some point. Also lets not kid ourselves he's not winning with shitty low tiers, he's playing high tier just like everyone else whose winning tournaments. If you think you can't train to beat sonic fox thats dumb because its definitely happened before and history shows it.
 
Marlow

Marlow

Premium Supporter
Premium Supporter
I'd say he wins because he has an amazing combination of execution, matchup knowledge, technical knowledge, and the ability to adapt almost instantaneously. Even with exstensive training, it's going to be really hard for anyone to match up with Sonic Fox on all those levels.
 
Youphemism

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Noone just automatically ends up being good at fighting games. But as this community likes to do they forget. Sonic didn't just start winning everything, he didn't during MK9s prime, he didn't when he played Harley and he didn't when he started playing Batgirl. This "natural talent" thing is overplayed, it came from time in the lab, dedication, playing matchups and breaking down the game and its characters. Yes he's good, but that stems from his previous experience with multiple fighting games.
ChoseDeath said:
This certainly isn't the first time something like this has happened. Daigo in SFIV, Zero in Smash. The best example of this I would say was Justin Wong in MvC2. Dude literally did not lose a tournament for two (three?) years. Through a massive variety of factors, done people just sync with some games. Combined with tons of time and hard work, a perfect combination of excellence is made.

To just say "others aren't working hard enough" is naive, disingenuous, and insulting.
Click to expand...
Says people not putting in their full efforts the way Sonic does into learning about as many variations as possible is "naive, disingenuous and insulting"
Says tons of time and hard work is how he got good

Instead of throwing out random buzzwords to sound offended make sure you're not contradicting yourself first.
 
Soul Bound X

Soul Bound X

Noob
THTB said:
Natural talent and tons of practice. It's not hard to really understand. You can't have one without the other, and Fox has both.
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Natural talent is such a loose term. I'm going to guess when you say natural talent what you mean is that if I were to sit sonic fox down with Hungrybox (the melee evo champion) at a game they have never played and had absolutely no experience with, the one with the "natural talent" would win. That's what you mean right? Well after two years "natural talent" doesn't matter anymore. Mew2king, one of the gods of melee, used to never place first. He lost to Ken, the old melee champ, all the time. But he has now put more work in than ken, and if they face each other today it's not even close. Mew2king destroys him. Along with mostly everyone else. It's obviously about how much work you put in. That is the key factor.
 
Soul Bound X

Soul Bound X

Noob
BlackJackSnack said:
this is the most cringe worthy post I have ever read
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But it is either true or false. Someone is wrong and someone is right. And I guarantee you that no self respecting top player, like f0xy grampa just for an example, is going to come in here and tell me that I'm wrong and say sonic fox is "just better than me".
 
KIllaByte

KIllaByte

PSN: playakid700. Local name: BFGC MonkeyBizness
karaokelove said:
According to http://www.esportsearnings.com/players/fighting-game-players, Sonic Fox has earned $303,846.80 since 2013, which is almost $100,000 a year (and that doesn't even take into account other sources of income such as sponsorships, Twitch subscribers, etc). That means while other players have to contend with "real life", Sonic and other top tournament players can literally make a living playing video games all day. They have access to the best training partners, they don't have to have day jobs (though I'm sure some still do), they almost definitely have the support of their families. Basically, the odds are stacked against the "average" players who do have to work 40+ hours per week, whose families don't take them seriously, and who don't have access to other top players as sparring partners. When people talk about "pro" gamers, this is what they mean: Sonic literally plays this game to make a living.

Tack all that onto his natural skill, which is how he got to this level in the first place, and it's no wonder that he can rarely be touched.
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I'm pretty sure he graduated junior year of high school this year?
 
THTB

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Soul Bound X said:
Natural talent is such a loose term. I'm going to guess when you say natural talent what you mean is that if I were to sit sonic fox down with Hungrybox (the melee evo champion) at a game they have never played and had absolutely no experience with, the one with the "natural talent" would win. That's what you mean right? Well after two years "natural talent" doesn't matter anymore. Mew2king, one of the gods of melee, used to never place first. He lost to Ken, the old melee champ, all the time. But he has now put more work in than ken, and if they face each other today it's not even close. Mew2king destroys him. Along with mostly everyone else. It's obviously about how much work you put in. That is the key factor.
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Both are key factors, cuz if you just naturally aren't good enough, practice isn't going to help.
 
Youphemism

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
THTB said:
Both are key factors, cuz if you just naturally aren't good enough, practice isn't going to help.
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I disagree with that. "Naturally" not being good or being good at something is just an excuse imo and I doubt is a proven thing. Practice, dedication, study, whatever you do as long as you put time and effort into it will pay off as long as you're doing it right. Someone who's "naturally" good at something still has to practice it too.
 
ChoseDeath

ChoseDeath

Seriously Casual Player.
Youphemism said:
Noone just automatically ends up being good at fighting games. But as this community likes to do they forget. Sonic didn't just start winning everything, he didn't during MK9s prime, he didn't when he played Harley and he didn't when he started playing Batgirl. This "natural talent" thing is overplayed, it came from time in the lab, dedication, playing matchups and breaking down the game and its characters. Yes he's good, but that stems from his previous experience with multiple fighting games.

Says people not putting in their full efforts the way Sonic does into learning about as many variations as possible is "naive, disingenuous and insulting"
Says tons of time and hard work is how he got good

Instead of throwing out random buzzwords to sound offended make sure you're not contradicting yourself first.
Click to expand...
First of all, you can take that condescending last paragraph and eat it. I an not some random internet moron who uses "buzzwords" and pretends to have problems, and I will not be spoken to as such. Secondly, explain to me how a blanket statement of "top players just don't work hard enough, that's why Sonic wins everything," isn't blatantly untrue. Do you know something I don't? Is that really what it is? Foxy and Irish Mantis and Scar are just lazy? Because I'm under the impression that that they do all grind and practice constantly, just like Sonic, just like those other players I mentioned. Feel free to correct me if that isn't the case.
 
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