Question Here is your Kommunity Top 10. Do you agree?

[Nephrite]

I'm curious about the method used. Is there any penalty in calculating averages when characters fail to make Top10?

For example, let's compare Cyrax & Sonya (#4 & #5 respectively). Cyrax ended up ahead of Sonya even though she was featured in 4 Top10s more than Cyrax. Say 4 people had Sonya placed at #10, this had a negative effect on her final avg since it's worse than her final avg. Now 4 people didn't even have Cyrax in Top10. What was the negative effect of this on his final avg? There should be some as not making Top10 is worse than being at #10.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

This is why we can't have nice things...

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Jax is a crap character man.

I am personally hurt by this statement.. Even if it ends up being somewhat true. Hahah

 

[YOMI DJT]

Jax is a crap character man.

why do you always say jax is Crap? he still is a good character maybe not top 10 but he's still good middle character. why is he so crap just curious?

 

[xKhaoTik]

Jax isn't crap .He's good, just not top 10. Now, if the game was called "Mortal Korner Kombat"...

 

[Crimson Panther]

Why does everyone keep making the argument of "who's won more tournaments" or "who's had more top 8 placements".

Tier list should be based on the characters tools vs another. Yea I know that would be "theory fighting" but seriously if we were to make a tier list based on performance or who uses them the best over another player or based off players' individual experiences we'll have 100s of tier lists.

Then again what number tier list is this?

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[Crimson Panther]

BTW Chance I think for NOW this list is accurate. Good stuff man.

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[Mr. Mileena]

I'm getting really annoyed by the non-stop tier talk.

There's 20 characters in top 10.
10 in top 5
5 in top 3
and 2 in top 1


This will never get resolved.
It's time we get over this.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

why do you always say jax is Crap? he still is a good character maybe not top 10 but he's still good middle character. why is he so crap just curious?

10 characters in this game can full combo him for F413.
2 of the big hitbox characters also have 8f moves to compete with it.

Thats 12 characters that can limit the use of his only good string.
GP cancels are meh if you just jump back.

If people started punishing Jax like I explained how to AGES ago, then you'd see how bad that character truly is.

 

[TakeAChance]

I'm curious about the method used. Is there any penalty in calculating averages when characters fail to make Top10?

For example, let's compare Cyrax & Sonya (#4 & #5 respectively). Cyrax ended up ahead of Sonya even though she was featured in 4 Top10s more than Cyrax. Say 4 people had Sonya placed at #10, this had a negative effect on her final avg since it's worse than her final avg. Now 4 people didn't even have Cyrax in Top10. What was the negative effect of this on his final avg? There should be some as not making Top10 is worse than being at #10.

Ah! Excellent Question!

You are correct that Sonya did receive more top 10 votes than Cyrax. You noticed that some characters had more/less votes than others. While your suggestion is definitely a good one about placing lower (10) and having it effect Sonya negatively, I can only calculate the averages that were recieved. I am using strictly the numbers that were given. If I had to add on a fake number (lets say 11) to the end of every characters polling I would end up with a lot of characters having an average of 11 (especially the bottom 4).

Averages take into account only the information given. Yes, Sonya was given 4 chances to get a lower number than she was ranked (10) but she also had 4 extra chances to land at number 1. Her average was utilized with the data given.

 

[YOMI DJT]

10 characters in this game can full combo him for F413.
2 of the big hitbox characters also have 8f moves to compete with it.

Thats 12 characters that can limit the use of his only good string.
GP cancels are meh if you just jump back.

That's true but he really isn't that bad he's like in the middle. he still ahead of alot of characters too

 

[TakeAChance]

I'm getting really annoyed by the non-stop tier talk.

There's 20 characters in top 10.
10 in top 5
5 in top 3
and 2 in top 1


This will never get resolved.
It's time we get over this.

This was a community project conducted a week ago. I had to post the result good sir. Don't think there is anything to get over. It was for fun, and the results are kind of impressive. Thanks for your input tho.

 

[Johnny2d]

Its interesting that skarlet ended up that high. She's my main and I believe in what she can do and all but... there arent any tourny results to back this up. Having her in top 10 on this list means its truly a 'theory' list, which is fine, we just need to remember that this is what people think based on theory of how things could be, which is all a tier list needs to be so what evs, I dont really care that much anyway lol.

Maybe what is necessary to end all this tier talk would be a community opinion tier list like this, held next to a brute facts tier list, x character has placed top 8 x times. Neither tier list would be better than the other, we could just compare and see who has factual tourny results, and what do people think characters are capable of. Again, it doesnt prove anything, it would just be interesting food for thought. And its not that tier talk needs to end, maybe the arguing could chill out a bit, the tier list should evolve as the game evolves and as great players bring new things to light and use their personal skills to show everyone what a character can do.

Also, I know everything im talking about takes the player out of the equasion, which is what makes this hard, there is no matchup simulation that could be used to test it all, thats why its best guesses and matches in theory, which is fine, as long as we're using what we find as a way to gain understanding and to level up.

Lastly, great work TakeAChance! This sheds a lot of light on the community thoughts. I think projects like this are a fun reflection of our current state.

Sent from M-Class Star Freighter USCSS Nostromo

 

[NKZero]

I really like this list thanks for the hard work STB TakeAChance. Anyways what does the SD represent? What does the actual figure of 0.23..... tell us? Anyways I think personally that only Kitana could maybe switch out with any of Raiden, Liu Kang or Reptile but I can see why she's 10. The other 9 (maybe not order) are all where they should be imo.

 

[Ninj]

Who knows, if you get over tourney nerves, that could very well happen!

I don't have tourney nerves, I just have very little mu experience at high level.

Besides, I clearly need to level up my trolling skills.

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[MashPotatoTower]

I like it but replace scarlet with reptile

 

[TakeAChance]

Lets talk about characters that had a high SD.

Kung Lao, Skarlet, and Kitty had very high SD's which means that there were more "over the board" placements in peoples' votes.

Those are the three characters that our community seems to have a hard time placing currently. Where should Kung Lao actually be? Skarlet? Kitty? etc. We all seem to agree that they are very good characters, we just can't find any consistency on where they should be. These three characters are where our community divides the most according to the stats.


Once we look at the stats like this, we can really have very interesting conversations about the characters and our perception of them.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Of course I dont agree.

I applaud you for your effort but there was no point in doing this and this proves absolutely nothing.

 

[EntwinedTodd]

When you know how to fight skarlet, she really isn't that good. Definitely not top 5-10 material. Also I'd replace kitana with jax.

 

[SLy]

To have Skarlet above JC and Kit is a very interesting and optimistic choice. I really don't know why people are bashing you but understand that not everybody is not gonna agree with you. This community could never have a community top 10 unfortunately. We barely made a top 5 without anyone commiting suicide.

But all in all I can accept and appreciate the chart.. I just hope its the last one we see lol.

 

[NKZero]

Lets talk about characters that had a high SD.

Kung Lao, Skarlet, and Kitty had very high SD's which means that there were more "over the board" placements in peoples' votes.

Those are the three characters that our community seems to have a hard time placing currently. Where should Kung Lao actually be? Skarlet? Kitty? etc. We all seem to agree that they are very good characters, we just can't find any consistency on where they should be. These three characters are where our community divides the most according to the stats.


Once we look at the stats like this, we can really have very interesting conversations about the characters and our perception of them.

Since I do statistics as part of my accounting and finance degree, if I ever need a case study with interesting statistical results, I'm taking this chart

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I guess you kind of have to look at how many Skarlet players travel I suppose and are actually at tournaments. In any case I don't really care about tournament placings that much when thinking about how good a character is to be honest. I just think about the tools and factor the players completely out of it.

This

 

[FCP/EMP SCAR]

Skarlet placed 9th at mlg dallas bitches, top 10, hold that...

 

[YOMI DJT]

Skarlet placed 9th at mlg dallas bitches, top 10, hold that...

Almost top 8 but what happened? could it have been a certain broken character that stopped her from making top 8 like cyrax?

 

[Nephrite]

Yes, Sonya was given 4 chances to get a lower number than she was ranked (10) but she also had 4 extra chances to land at number 1. Her average was utilized with the data given.

That's not the right way to look at it though. Sonya didn't have 4 extra chances to land at #1, she and Cyrax had the same amount of chances because everyone was able to pick both characters for their Top10, it just happened that in the opinion of 4 people Sonya was a Top10 material while Cyrax wasn't. This should help her place above Cyrax on the list, but instead it ended up hurting her.

The point is, calculating averages is not the best method. I could have been the only person to even have Kano in Top10 and place him at #1. His avg would then end up 1.00 and he'd be the best in the game. See the problem?

The best way to make a list, imo, would be to add pts to characters for placing in Top10s. For example, on each user's list character placed #1 should get 10 pts, #2 should get 9 pts, #3 should get 8 pts, ... #10 should get 1 pt. Then you sum up character pts from all the submitted lists and get a total for each character. This way characters would get penalized for failing to make Top10s 'cause they wouldn't get any pts (and placing in Top10, even at #10, would be rewarded in contrast to not placing in Top10 at all). It'd be interesting to see Cyrax's and Sonya's final rank using this method as well as the rest of the Top10 since there are more cases like this in the current Top10 (like Skarlet vs Smoke, he got into a lot more Top10s, yet she ended up ahead of him just because her avg was better even though many people didn't even have her in their Top10).

Btw, thanks for answering. Also, I like the project idea and appreciate your effort, that's why I'm debating about the method as I think it's not the best. I don't want you to think I'm being mean or something. I'd just like this to be as perfect as possible, even if it's just for fun.