Im just going to say it.

[UsedForGlue]

I know we are not supposed to ask for buffs anymore, But I just don't care anymore, here it is:

Far :en dive kick needs to have armour, Safe on block, and more advantage on hit, example: :en far dive kick hits, then into Pressure.

If CSZ had armour on his :en slide, it would not fix the problem and here is why:

The :en slide for human sub is a DEFENSIVE TOOL, Human sub can break pressure with the :en slide, and because it pushes them away, he goes right back to Cloning, so, if you were Cage, and you finally got in, Sub would armour out and push you back across the screen start cloning again, thats what it is used for.

But, for CSZ, he needs to get in, using :en slide to hit the opponent from distance will only throw the opponent away and then your back in the same position you were originally in, thus, nothing than has changed, except 12% or so for a bar of meter, the problem is not fixed.

:en Slide for human sub is a defensive tool, it is not supposed to be used for attacking, just defending and getting back to cloning, so this absolutely will not work the same for CSZ. The far :en dive kick needs armour, so you can break through projectiles, and if it was safe on block, you could at least be hit with a block string, and have a footsie game or a parry op during the opponents pressure, also if it will give advantage on hit, you would be in.

That's whats up. If you disagree, then you clearly have not played the character enough in his worst matches. noffrant:

If you are thinking now, if you don't like this character's tools then stop using him, the point of this is because I like the character, if I didn't like what he is, I wouldn't be using him. But after playing him since day one, it just irritates me with how little he sometimes makes.

So, this :en slide as it stands right now, is completely fucking useless unless you want to end a combo and put the opponent in the corner.

By the way, this is only one suggested buff that this character severally needs. I will list the others if people are interested.

 

[PND_Mustard]

how come?

 

[UsedForGlue]

how come?

You must have only seen my post before I updated it with all the reasons why for lol

 

[PND OmegaK]

Well I dont wanna be an idiot. You're 100% right.

 

[PND_Mustard]

You must have only seen my post before I updated it with all the reasons why for lol

haha yeah i did

 

[M2Dave]

Far :en dive kick needs to have armour, Safe on block, and more advantage on hit, example: :en far dive kick hits, then into Pressure.

That is a dumb suggestion. The others are fine.

 

[UsedForGlue]

That is a dumb suggestion. The others are fine.

Why is that? And which suggestion to you mean?

 

[UsedForGlue]

Well I dont wanna be an idiot. You're 100% right.

A little jax baby!!! Nice work Omega

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Nah Dave, he actually does need at least armour on an Ex Divekick, even if they made it unsafe, it still needs to be armoured.

 

[M2Dave]

Why is that? And which suggestion to you mean?

You want a safe EX dive kick with armor that covers 1/2 of the screen and gives interruptable pressure on hit. Really? While this theoretical move would be acceptable vs the likes of Kabal and Kitana, it would not be acceptable vs everybody else. You pretty much want a move that has no risks whatsoever. I do not think a move like that even exists in the game.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Nah Dave, he actually does need at least armour on an Ex Divekick, even if they made it unsafe, it still needs to be armoured.

If you are going to give armour to something, it would need to have a reason. Breaking through something is not enough, it needs to serves a purpose.

If it stayed the same on block as it normally is, then ok, but again, it would need to serve a purpose and grant advantage on hit, other wise you are just bagging damage, the exact same thing that Cage's :en Shadow kick does, gets you damage, but doesn't fix anything.

 

[UsedForGlue]

You want a safe EX dive kick with armor that covers 1/2 of the screen and gives interruptable pressure on hit. Really? While this theoretical move would be acceptable vs the likes of Kabal and Kitana, it would not be acceptable vs everybody else. You pretty much want a move that has no risks whatsoever. I do not think a move like that even exists in the game.

It would be the only thing for CSZ that wouldn't require a risk.

Kabal's :en Nomad Dash. Full Screen, Amoured on start up, Cancel-able.

Skarlet's :en Red Dash into - Almost full screen, armoured, -3 on block.

 

[THTB]

I can see why you would want this...considering Jax can burn meter to blow through everything and get in safely on block.

The only real problem with safe, armored divekick with advantage is that it's pretty much a move with no risk, all the reward to gain. Jax is at least punishable when you make it whiff, forcing him to use it on reaction to stuff. This, you could pretty much toss out whenever. This also means that CSZ can't really be aa'd or a2a'd anymore if he has a bar. It's honestly too huge of a buff.

You have to look at it in a vacuum as a whole.

Yes, Kabal can cancel his EX ND. Yes, Skarlet has EX RD slide. Kabal is unsafe on block for it, and Skarlet's slide can just be jumped.

 

[UsedForGlue]

I can see why you would want this...considering Jax can burn meter to blow through everything and get in safely on block.

The only real problem with safe, armored divekick with advantage is that it's pretty much a move with no risk, all the reward to gain. Jax is at least punishable when you make it whiff, forcing him to use it on reaction to stuff. This, you could pretty much toss out whenever. This also means that CSZ can't really be aa'd or a2a'd anymore if he has a bar. It's honestly too huge of a buff.

You have to look at it in a vacuum as a whole.

Maybe it being safe is a little too greedy, I will concede that. And to be honest, I was a little fried off when I posted this initially. :moonwalk:

It could at least have the same safe/not safe (above and below the belt height) properties as his special dive kicks. With all that being said, he suffers severally from a lack of this.

If those properties did not change, then it would not benefit you throwing it out at random.

 

[M2Dave]

It would be the only thing for CSZ that wouldn't require a risk.

Kabal's :en Nomad Dash. Full Screen, Amoured on start up, Cancel-able.

-100 on block. That is the risk.

I support all reasonable buffs (i.e., faster and safer pokes, armor on EX slide, better recovery on iceball, etc.) to Cyber Sub Zero. A safe EX dive kick with armor that covers 1/2 of the screen and gives interruptable pressure on hit does not sound reasonable to me.

 

[THTB]

You know what he should get? Armor on EX freeze. Similar benefits to armored, safe EX divekick. Still requires him to be smart about it.

 

[UsedForGlue]

-100 on block. That is the risk.

I support all reasonable buffs (i.e., faster and safer pokes, armor on EX slide, better recovery on iceball, etc.) to Cyber Sub Zero. A safe EX dive kick with armor that covers 1/2 of the screen and gives interruptable pressure on hit does not sound reasonable to me.

When I mentioned the Kabal :en Dash, it being cancel-able on reaction means that full screen, you can at least retract your decision on the way there.

I mentioned that if It stayed as safe and unsafe on block as the special dive kicks, it would not benefit you throwing it out at random.

So to revise: Armoured, Advantage on hit, same safe/un-safe properties as special dive kicks.

 

[M2Dave]

I can see why you would want this...considering Jax can burn meter to blow through everything and get in safely on block.

The only real problem with safe, armored divekick with advantage is that it's pretty much a move with no risk, all the reward to gain. Jax is at least punishable when you make it whiff, forcing him to use it on reaction to stuff. This, you could pretty much toss out whenever. This also means that CSZ can't really be aa'd or a2a'd anymore if he has a bar. It's honestly too huge of a buff.

You have to look at it in a vacuum as a whole.

Exactly. It would essentially be a move that you cannot AA. Also, if I recall correctly, an EX dive kick does 5% of chip damage. You would die for sure at the end of rounds. This is just an unthoughful and lazy suggestion, Glue. No offense. There are other ways to make Cyber Sub top tier.

 

[UsedForGlue]

You know what he should get? Armor on EX freeze. Similar benefits to armored, safe EX divekick. Still requires him to be smart about it.

I have had a really smart idea for along time for his bombs. Here it out:

Instead of triple bombs, for any enhanced version of any bomb, each bomb input enhanced should have the same start up and recovery as Skarlet enhanced dagger.
So, you could be zoning, and as quick as a flash, throw out an enhanced Medium Bomb or, Short or Long bomb, and start rushing, and because the freeze rules will only allow these to freeze while the opponent can block, it won't break anything. This is something he should have had since the beginning. The triple bomb was just tacked on.

 

[UsedForGlue]

This is just an unthoughful and lazy suggestion, Glue. No offense. There are other ways to make Cyber Sub top tier.

I am not looking to make him top tier. Not once did I say that, your putting words in my mouth.

I know you can't wait to dig your heels into any EU player to score some points, but can you just refrain from that for once, as this is a discussion I really think is worth it, and I appreciate the input from everyone.

I will concede that it was greedy of me at the time for it to be safe, but with everyones feedback, I have realised that. But that's all it takes dave, leave the rest out. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[charlieonline]

I know we are not supposed to ask for buffs anymore, But I just don't care anymore, here it is:

Far :en dive kick needs to have armour, Safe on block, and more advantage on hit, example: :en far dive kick hits, then into Pressure.

If CSZ had armour on his :en slide, it would not fix the problem and here is why:

The :en slide for human sub is a DEFENSIVE TOOL, Human sub can break pressure with the :en slide, and because it pushes them away, he goes right back to Cloning, so, if you were Cage, and you finally got in, Sub would armour out and push you back across the screen start cloning again, thats what it is used for.

But, for CSZ, he needs to get in, using :en slide to hit the opponent from distance will only throw the opponent away and then your back in the same position you were originally in, thus, nothing than has changed, except 12% or so for a bar of meter, the problem is not fixed.

:en Slide for human sub is a defensive tool, it is not supposed to be used for attacking, just defending and getting back to cloning, so this absolutely will not work the same for CSZ. The far :en dive kick needs armour, so you can break through projectiles, and if it was safe on block, you could at least be hit with a block string, and have a footsie game or a parry op during the opponents pressure, also if it will give advantage on hit, you would be in.

That's whats up. If you disagree, then you clearly have not played the character enough in his worst matches. noffrant:

If you are thinking now, if you don't like this character's tools then stop using him, the point of this is because I like the character, if I didn't like what he is, I wouldn't be using him. But after playing him since day one, it just irritates me with how little he sometimes makes.

So, this :en slide as it stands right now, is completely fucking useless unless you want to end a combo and put the opponent in the corner.

By the way, this is only one suggested buff that this character severally needs. I will list the others if people are interested.

I disagree. What CSZ needs is those ninja stars you see in his fatalities so he can zone

 

[Mt. Mutombo]

Agree on everything but yeah, it shouldn't be safe.

Armor is a must imo, but making it safe and then having advantage for pressure?

That's crazy, i mean 5% for the EX another 5 or 6% from the block string then after a 2,1 1+2 you do another ex dive kick that's another 5%...Yeah ur wasting 2 bars but with low health it's game over. Then again quan chi does the same thing, so i will just stfu lol.

 

[THTB]

I'm still not keen on armor on divekick, mainly because it opens WAY too much up for CSZ. The threat of divekicks stopping your AA is already huge enough, but tack on the ability to blow through anything in the process and that's when it becomes too much. The only risk is having it blocked, and at that point, you don't have to actually use the divekick to get in anymore. Sometimes, the threat is way more powerful than the actual attack itself.

 

[RampaginDragon]

I honestly don't know if this would be a good idea or not. Some aspects of it make it seem OP and some make it seem needed. I like CSZ where he is now kinda. But that could defenitly help get you out of cheeze, but it could also start cheeze.

 

[Flagg]

I would like to see his teleport buffed. Either make the regular one faster (less frames), or give his EX version the ability to set up combos.