General/Other - Scorpion Do we need anything in KP 3

[CrazyFingers]

Since most people have been posting this question, I figured I would do it for the newest character I have picked up, Scorpion. So, what do you guys think, does our warrior of the netherrealm turned defender of the jinsei chamber need any changes? Buffs? Nerfs (I doubt it)? Or is he perfect the way he is? Personally, I feel Inferno is lacking and that's the only variation i think needs looking at. here's what I propose.

1. Up the hit advantage of Minion Slam (EX DB1) from +4 to +10.
2. Up the block advantage of Minion Slam (EX DB1) from -21 to +3
3. Reduce the start up frames of Minion Slam (EX DB1) from 24 frames to 16 frames, and recovery from 22 frames 16 frames.
4. Up the hit advantage of Minion Charge (DB1) from +4 to +6

Reasoning
Upping the hit advantage on the DB1 minions will provide Inferno with more pressure tools which he lack desperately. This also goes for upping the block, recovery and startup on EX DB1, this way Inferno has a safe and quick way to start his pressure, and a good way to get in on his opponents.

What do you guys think? Love to hear your thoughts!

 

[Bruno-NeoSpace]

Yeah... Inferno's zoning sucks... Inferno needs help.

@YOMI REO has proposed very good changes for Scorpion:

Scorpion:
- Hurtbox on D+4 slightly increased.
- J+3 now normalized.

Inferno:
- Minion Charge D,B+1 is now -6 on block.
- EX Minion Charge is now +7 on block.
- Minion Drop D,B+2 is now +10 on hit.
- EX Minion Drop (D,B+2+BLK) now stuns the opponent on hit exactly like Jason's F+2 hit animation, which allows a combo follow up.

Ninjitsu:
- All sword based attacks now have hurtboxes.

Another things that should change:

- Scorpion's B2 should be faster on startup

- BLK enhance after Double Spear (B,F+1+BLK) on hit now will always do 12% unscaled damage.

- Remove the gap of the 1,1,4 string.

 

[CrazyFingers]

Wow looks like I was a bit tame on the buffs to minion slam, but yea, inferno definitely needs assistance, there really isn't any reason to pick it besides it's low execution, which isn't a good reason

 

[SoV N3RO]

Alien needs the BIGGEST nerf.

 

[GamerBlake90]

Aside from giving his Inferno variation a purpose that doesn't involve being a significantly weaker version of Hellfire, Scorpion doesn't "need" anything.

Personal bonuses for me would include removing the gap in his 1 1 4 string, as well as making it so you can't create a gap in 2 1 2 by crouch-blocking the first two hits - which by the way, @Mitsuownes, is why you would occasionally see players armoring that string before the overhead can connect. But since staggering either string on the second hit leaves us slightly plus, I could live without such changes.

If we have to get nerfed for anything, I expect the gun to be aimed at our jump-3. I'll only accept that as long as they address the stupidity with Mileena, Jax, Sub-Zero, Kung Jin and Alien's jump normals.

 

[the.hamburglar]

Yeah... Inferno's zoning sucks... Inferno needs help.

@YOMI REO has proposed very good changes for Scorpion:



Another things that should change:

- Scorpion's B2 should be faster on startup


- Remove the gap of the 1,1,4 string.

Would that make 1,1,4 in Helfire the new 2,1,4?

 

[Bruno-NeoSpace]

Would that make 1,1,4 in Helfire the new 2,1,4?

1,1,4 into FBRC is not as plus as 2,1,4 into FBRC, and 1,2,3 into FBRC is around +10.

 

[CrazyFingers]

Yea 2,1,4 FBC is +22, 1,1,4 is +2. Removing the gap would be nice because there is no point in having that gap in it, makes no sense.

 

[Mitsuownes]

Remove the gap in 114, it's not really a buff, more like a fix. And Inferno...Just make it great (again).

 

[CrazyFingers]

Another thing I realized while looking at Inferno is that, it'd be nice if low minion was faster, so it could combo with F4 without having to meterburn it.

 

[leoj89]

Needs some stuff toned down tbh.
Low minion should disappear on hit .
Also I'm not sure if it's an online problem but dudes teleport seems almost safe. Maybe that's how it's supposed to be though. I never see Scorpion in top 8 but dude dominates online. Not trying spread bad info School me if I'm talking crazy .

 

[thlityoursloat]

114 isn't the only string that has a gap for no reason. Kano's 112 had a gap for pretty much forever and it was never addressed, even though it's not + at any point.

I'd love for j3 to get nerfed though.. it's just stupid. Jump ins across the board need to be individually looked at and nerfed appropriately, some of them hit from some retarded angles.

 

[TyCarter35]

Yea honestly inferno is the only one that really needs help.
My preferred chages would be:
UNIVERSAL
-remove gap in 114
-give him armor on ex spear/remove damage scaling on ex spear, one or the other would be fine since Scorpion should have an option against plus frames and shit because too many recovery frames on takeout.
-reduce recovery frames on takedown and takeout by 15 frames. Honestly the move is already unsafe enough and would make opponents not jump over and whiff punish scorpion as easily and maybe increase the range a little more.
INFERNO
-make minion charge be -7 on block as he needs some safety as he lacks safe options for pressure.
-make EX minion charge be -5 on block
-make minion drop +15 on hit. Gives the move a purpose other than mixing it up full screen and allows Inferno time to make a decision
NINJUTSU
Honestly no necessary changes for the variation specifically
HELLFIRE
Fine as it is for now

 

[ILuvFightGames]

Aside from giving his Inferno variation a purpose that doesn't involve being a significantly weaker version of Hellfire, Scorpion doesn't "need" anything.

Personal bonuses for me would include removing the gap in his 1 1 4 string, as well as making it so you can't create a gap in 2 1 2 by crouch-blocking the first two hits - which by the way, @Mitsuownes, is why you would occasionally see players armoring that string before the overhead can connect. But since staggering either string on the second hit leaves us slightly plus, I could live without such changes.

If we have to get nerfed for anything, I expect the gun to be aimed at our jump-3. I'll only accept that as long as they address the stupidity with Mileena, Jax, Sub-Zero, Kung Jin and Alien's jump normals.

Subzero's jump normals? What do you mean? I'm learning sub so I'm interested.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Aside from Inferno buffs which i think giving him super plus blockstuns on very slow specials won't help him at all.

I think Scorpion in general should just walk back a little faster and have a more fast traveling backdash considering he lacks armor on neutral and his best armor option its not so great either if hits or gets blocked or whiffs, Scorpion neutral game needs to be the area where he excels at giving him a faster walkspeed and faster backdash with little much less recovery will help him to do that.

I believe inferno might need a new special move to cope out with the rest he has, he feels too variationless and doesn't have anything at all to complete his type of game, not even sure if he deserves to be called zoner.

As much as armor on ex spear or TP is great it will just make his other variations too strong, he needs something new to change his type of game a bit.

with that said my kind of wish list is:
General
Faster walkbackspeed
backdash traveling speed increased, recovery reduced by 10 frames.
114 gap removed
takedown now recovery way more faster if whiffs
B2 startup reduced to 8 frames
MB ex spear now deals 0,80% damage overtime for 5 seconds.

Inferno
New special move (probably something that once on screen allows him to zone)
ex minion charge now has an additional pop up move that is +7 if blocked
minion drop and ex minion drop startup reduced
minion charge and ex minion charge startup reduced
Minion drop knocks down on regular hit
ex minion drop bounds on hit grounded or air bone

 

[shura30]

well, they should fix flame aura's random hitbox and active frames among the others
I'm surprised no one talks about it

 

[TyCarter35]

well, they should fix flame aura's random hitbox and active frames among the others
I'm surprised no one talks about it

I think part of it has to do with the fact that flame aura is already such a good AA tool in a game where jump ins are op and gives Scorpion a lot of armor breaking setups in HF. But yea they should fix the random hitboxes as Flame Aura can still be stuffed by stuff like ninjutsu f2 as Eddy shown in another thread

 

[Hor_PeT]

Aside from giving his Inferno variation a purpose that doesn't involve being a significantly weaker version of Hellfire, Scorpion doesn't "need" anything.

Personal bonuses for me would include removing the gap in his 1 1 4 string, as well as making it so you can't create a gap in 2 1 2 by crouch-blocking the first two hits - which by the way, @Mitsuownes, is why you would occasionally see players armoring that string before the overhead can connect. But since staggering either string on the second hit leaves us slightly plus, I could live without such changes.

If we have to get nerfed for anything, I expect the gun to be aimed at our jump-3. I'll only accept that as long as they address the stupidity with Mileena, Jax, Sub-Zero, Kung Jin and Alien's jump normals.

What is it about 114 gap? I thought it had no gap lol that's why I use it when i do not want to have gap (from 214).

I went to the lab now and set reversal AI and experienced around 10% chance to have gap between 1 and 4. Especially when I made the 114xxtele input.

How is it possible? Random gap? Depends from what? I was close to the opponent so the conditions were the same. I would change it to have always gap or not but that % chance seems quite silly.

Btw I agree that J3 is "too good". But other characters mentioned also have more important "too good" tools so J3 is just enough to keep it up (it isn't but better than nothing).

 

[ILuvFightGames]

1,1,4 into FBRC is not as plus as 2,1,4 into FBRC, and 1,2,3 into FBRC is around +10.

How plus is 214 into FBRC?

 

[ILuvFightGames]

What is it about 114 gap? I thought it had no gap lol that's why I use it when i do not want to have gap (from 214).

I went to the lab now and set reversal AI and experienced around 10% chance to have gap between 1 and 4. Especially when I made the 114xxtele input.

How is it possible? Random gap? Depends from what? I was close to the opponent so the conditions were the same. I would change it to have always gap or not but that % chance seems quite silly.

Btw I agree that J3 is "too good". But other characters mentioned also have more important "too good" tools so J3 is just enough to keep it up (it isn't but better than nothing).

Is that a jump 3? I heard standing 3 was good but why jumping 3?

 

[CrazyFingers]

How plus is 214 into FBRC?

+22

Is that a jump 3? I heard standing 3 was good but why jumping 3?

It's 6f I believe and is obnoxiously hard to anti-air reliably. It's one of the better jump in normal, and he gets a full combo from it with TP.

 

[ILuvFightGames]

+22



It's 6f I believe and is obnoxiously hard to anti-air reliably. It's one of the better jump in normal, and he gets a full combo from it with TP.

Cool thanks, so how many FRC's can you do without the opponent being able to poke out or do an armored move? You can't go on forever I imagine right?

 

[thlityoursloat]

214 has a gap so theoretically, not even a single rep.

 

[STRYKIE]

Quality of life changes:

- 11 given enough cancel advantage on block to always reliably jail into (11)4.

- 114 hit reaction adjusted to be slightly higher to allow at least one B2 follow up in Ninjutsu after 114~Teleport.

- B32 given enough cancel advantage on block to always reliably jail into (B32)F2 in Hellfire/Inferno

- (21)2 in Ninjutsu slightly sped up (2 frames should be enough) to always reliably jail on crouch blocking opponents.

- 12 hit reaction adjusted to always reliably link into 123 without whiffing.

- Standing 4 given enough cancel advantage on hit to link into Inferno's meterless low minion.

- F4 given 3 more frames of hit advantage to make F4~FBRC links in Hellfire slightly easier. (to my knowledge this wouldnt allow it to link into any specials that it currently doesn't)


Cold hard buffs:

- 9 recovery frames removed from F3 (this is more aimed at giving Inferno a commendable button to use in the neutral, this would not effect F3~FBRC's advantage in Hellfire)

- Inferno's EX low minion startup reduced to 15 frames and has 1 hit of armor (this is simply to give Scorpion the option of a rewarding armored combo starter not tied to any loopholes if the player wants to use it, if people want to throw a tantrum about it being a "full screen move" then give it a proximity limit to make it not track beyond Ninjutsu B2 range)

- Inferno's EX overhead minion startup reduced to 28 frames and +11 on block

- Inferno's EX minion charge reduced to 23 startup frames, -5 on block and has 1 hit of armor

- (if the last change happens, increase the damage protection on EX minion charge specifically by 33% to prevent extreme conversions if it collides with an airborne opponent)

 

[GAV]

Alien needs the BIGGEST nerf.

Agreed.