Question - Takeda How Much would it Hurt Takeda

[B. Shazzy]

Or you can lab it and realize it really isn't that big of a threat, also an option.

When i was playing against pig at his place. Almost Every time I threw this move out to get in he punished me on reaction when it whiffed.

Why can't Takeda players use this tool properly but Raptor? You can punish most attempts of counterzoning against Takeda with jump back and bf4 on reaction to projectile startup frames.

Why do Takeda players think they should throw out fullscreen moves with no reprecussions?

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

Why can't Takeda players use this tool properly but Raptor? You can punish most attempts of counterzoning against Takeda with jump back and bf4 on reaction to projectile startup frames.

Why do Takeda players think they should throw out fullscreen moves with no reprecussions?

I don t understand you you just said before that it was a move that could be thrown out without repercussion

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

Instead of words, I've got two videos for you that basically cover it all

That's the best recovery projectile in the game AFAIK, and he still can't anti-air you out. Now imagine if you are trying to zone with ANYONE other than Predator. Just drop the narrative.



What you are describing here is all universal neutral shit, not used as a safe "cover the entire screen and get me in safe on block AND whiff which can't be contested during the recovery frames of any single projectile whiff in the game". Even JC's Shadow Kick is High and can be contested, and it costs a meter. This shit is just bad design.


And let's be real, if I AM correct, it's not like you would admit it - you think Takeda NEEDS a block infinite, you will literally say anything to defend even the worst gameplay design aspects when it comes to this character. This is the problem with MKX, everyone complains about the design and how zoning is dead - but when changes to some of the dumb shit is suggested even if it won't hurt the character for other shit, people argue against it to the death.

When did I say tenses takeda needs a block infinite? The fuck? If you are talking about forever ago with the pseudo block infinite ronin had I said that was fine but he didn't need it, why was it fine? Because it was possible to get out of. It wasn't a true infinite, and with tornado kick. So let me get this straight, if I read you correctly and very in via tornado kick. And get what, 9% off of it, how is that worse than teleports? Which can hit you MUCH harder, and the risk for me is greater. If you block it, you can pressure me which takeda has a hard time dealing with, if I whiff it, for every option I have, you also have an option to counter it. If I jump, chances are I tornado kick, if I do tornado kick off the ground straight laser will hit me, HOW can you up play this move so much? I have no forward advancing armor, I have slow long reaching attacks that get blown up by zoners, and my tornado kick can be blown up by anyone that actually thinks instead of wants their zoning to come to them handed to them on a silver platter, zoning isn't about just seeing how many projectiles you can put on screen, it is about reading and predicting the opponent, if you can't get around tornado kick, then you need to LEVEL UP, I have gotten punished for trying to tornado kick more times than I can even count. How is that possible? Because I play against good players that know that there are plenty of counters to this move, it isn't a free get in tool. Stop up playing this move so much, if you hate it so fucking much, LAB IT. It is a wondrous thing that helps you get better. I am defending this move because I don't want it to become WORTHLESS, I have learned to NEVER use it against zoners because I will get blown up, I use the short recovery for one reason and one reason only, positioning against characters that I can space out with my whips. If I fuck up, it is on me, so why is it that when you fuck up, it is on the move? I've tried to be civil but god damn it is like I'm talking to a brick wall.

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

Why can't Takeda players use this tool properly but Raptor? You can punish most attempts of counterzoning against Takeda with jump back and bf4 on reaction to projectile startup frames.

Why do Takeda players think they should throw out fullscreen moves with no reprecussions?

We don't think that. That is what we are getting at. You are contradicting yourself, you say that the move is broken and is an easy to get in tool, but then you use our reasoning as to why it is fine and act try and use it against us.

 

[Tony at Home]

I'm confused.

I'm hearing:

"you can whiff punish it everytime!"

But also:

"if you add recovery, it will be a major nerf!"

I don't get it. So which is it? If its so damn whiff punishable why is adding recovery such a huge change?

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

I'm confused.

I'm hearing:

"you can whiff punish it everytime!"

But also:

"if you add recovery, it will be a major nerf!"

I don't get it. So which is it? If its so damn whiff punishable why is adding recovery such a huge change?

Because you can whiff punish it IF I'm close enough, it is a huge nerf because if I use it for positioning instead of damage for a punish I will get punished every time

 

[KingKhrystopher]

lol nerf Takeda.
His mixups are literally not hard to deal with. f1224 is -20, the f124 is -22, you can punish it easily, and you can react to the overhead, like, on point. You can fuzzy guard the overhead, just assume they will cancel into the low Kunai, and if you see the overhead, block high and punish.

The teleports are safe, but you can still combat them. You can backdash or whatever, or NJP when he comes on the other side. EX Teleport is worse, if you throw a projectile, and he comes on the other side, it can still hit him. It has happened like 4 times in the beta with Blanche.

Good god.

 

[Tony at Home]

Because you can whiff punish it IF I'm close enough, it is a huge nerf because if I use it for positioning instead of damage for a punish I will get punished every time

Perhaps whiffing a move is supposed to be a bad thing?

 

[StealthyMuffin]

This turned out to be a really good question.

 

[Tweedy]

lol nerf Takeda.
His mixups are literally not hard to deal with. f1224 is -20, the f124 is -22, you can punish it easily, and you can react to the overhead, like, on point. You can fuzzy guard the overhead, just assume they will cancel into the low Kunai, and if you see the overhead, block high and punish.

Good god.

You totally can't cancel F12 2+4 or F1 2+4 into a low kunai without a gap. Have you played this game before? Not saying Takeda should be nerfed, but what ze fuq bro?

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

Perhaps whiffing a move is supposed to be a bad thing?

*cough*Sonya*cough*

 

[HomeLee1121]

Why can't Takeda players use this tool properly but Raptor? You can punish most attempts of counterzoning against Takeda with jump back and bf4 on reaction to projectile startup frames.

Why do Takeda players think they should throw out fullscreen moves with no reprecussions?

B/c a lot of players let us get away with it lol why care when we catch people off guard with it. Also I rarely use the move lol I just do it every now and then to make sure they know that move exists. Just stating that pig got me the times the move whiffed. Dunno how this turned into "why do all players throw this out blindly."

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

Perhaps whiffing a move is supposed to be a bad thing?

And perhaps even something such as whiffing can have utility instead of it being only a punishment? Like I said, I think it is completely fair for when I have the opportunity to hit you with tornado kick. To instead use it for positioning, giving up damage and in exchange having utility.

 

[KingKhrystopher]

You totally can't cancel F12 2+4 or F1 2+4 into a low kunai without a gap. Have you played this game before? Not saying Takeda should be nerfed, but what ze fuq bro?

I forgot to mention the gap, but yes, there's a very big gap, but just incause the opponent doesn't have meter, they can fuzzy guard it. Armor, or wait and backdash.

 

[Tweedy]

I forgot to mention the gap, but yes, there's a very big gap, but just incause the opponent doesn't have meter, they can fuzzy guard it. Armor, or wait and backdash.

I was being sarcastic. There's no gap at all lol. Have you ever played this game before?

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

I was being sarcastic. There's no gap at all lol. Have you ever played this game before?

 

[KingKhrystopher]

I was being sarcastic. There's no gap at all lol. Have you ever played this game before?

No gap? Have YOU played Takeda before?

 

[Alright RyRy]

No gap? Have YOU played Takeda before?

There is not a gap If you cancel into close Kunai, but that is not the point.

Back to the topic please.

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

There is not a gap If you cancel into close Kunai, but that is not the point.

Back to the topic please.

I don't think anything else can be said TBH

 

[Alright RyRy]

I don't think anything else can be said TBH

I've only gotten 1 legit reason to back up keeping the move safe.

That being it hurting lasher

 

[B. Shazzy]

I don t understand you you just said before that it was a move that could be thrown out without repercussion

Takeda players's think the argument to make when it comes to complaint about recovering too fast on whiff is " just antiair, bro this guy does it everytime" or " he needs it to move around the screen safely (lol)"

Clearly Takeda player's don't know how to use the move in the first place if this is their response, so i guess that's why my post seems confusing.

 

[Wigy]

His is sort of the opposite though, if you miss a Takeda Ball you played it wrong or your opponent ran under it or something, but you want it to land on them so that it eithers hits, or chips and is safe. This should be punishable on whiff.

Whiffing a Slide or Dash against someone blocking takes a lot of skill and knowledge of spacing, and lets you up in their grills with a meterless fast recovery low profile dash in a sense , while risking full combo punish if you fuck it up



Which ones can? I mean there is always going to be tools to counter what play your opponent makes, however especially against a lightning fast recovery projectile like Predator, even fullest of full screens, Takeda has to only whiff one projectile by jumping and he's in, if he's fast enough Predator doesn't even have time to catch him with an NjP, an NjP that Predator can only catch him with if he READS the Ball. It's similar to Slides and Teleports, they are excellent counter zoning tools - except they are heavily punishable on block. Takeda's just needs to be slightly punishable on whiff so that his opponent has a play here, while it doesn't matter against all the rushdown members of the cast that almost everybody plays, there is a couple of characters that it is just bad gameplay design.

Any character with a decent high projectile gives air ball a hard time gettting out. Its characters like liu who rely on a low travelling one that can get stuffed.

Think your overestimating how quick it is. If you jump a projectile you can ball in. But someone can easily react and block that and then you're -6 and right next to them. Hardly advantageous.

 

[B. Shazzy]

B/c a lot of players let us get away with it lol why care when we catch people off guard with it. Also I rarely use the move lol I just do it every now and then to make sure they know that move exists. Just stating that pig got me the times the move whiffed. Dunno how this turned into "why do all players throw this out blindly."

I get what you're saying. But the reasons the Takeda community is defending this move... it's like if I told you why not just buff Johnny cage's raw shadow kick to -6 on block too with the same recovery frames?

Then I said stuff like:

It only does 8% on hit.

Just neutral duck to punish and don't throw a fireball

Fisticuffs would need that come on, it 's for positioning. Don't hurt fisticuffs.

My friend whiff punishes it sometimes

Johnny cage doesn't even have mixups his f24 is -6 and his 113 is -25

Literally all the excuses in this thread


Before someone says it, yes, I realize that this version of Shadow kick and Takeda's flip aren't the same animation. However this new version of Shadowkick would accomplish the same exact thing as Takeda's flip does now, if both having sliglty different ways to punish them.

The point is space control vs risk. Flip controls too much space while not having enough risk to balance it. Takeda's too dumb and needs to be toned down.

 

[WiseM0nkey]

lol nerf Takeda.
His mixups are literally not hard to deal with. f1224 is -20, the f124 is -22, you can punish it easily, and you can react to the overhead, like, on point. You can fuzzy guard the overhead, just assume they will cancel into the low Kunai, and if you see the overhead, block high and punish.

The teleports are safe, but you can still combat them. You can backdash or whatever, or NJP when he comes on the other side. EX Teleport is worse, if you throw a projectile, and he comes on the other side, it can still hit him. It has happened like 4 times in the beta with Blanche.

Good god.

I forgot to mention the gap, but yes, there's a very big gap, but just incause the opponent doesn't have meter, they can fuzzy guard it. Armor, or wait and backdash.

bro, stahp...

 

[WiseM0nkey]

No gap? Have YOU played Takeda before?

if you use close kunai there's no fucking gap in f1224 or f124, so cut the bullshit and start playing this game