A Tier List Crafted from Tears

[Spencer]

What stopping BS shinnok from being s+ ?

Is it the meter dependency?

 

[Mista_Snacks]

All Jax variations should be next to each other.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

I think BG Kotal is probably better than SG, and BG Kotal is way too low on the list IMO. I think he's a solid upper-mid. 114xWhiff Air grab in to B12xExPizza RC and repeat is very strong. I feel like Kotal is being slept on in general./ I dont think he's secret top-tier but he's very strong with some decent tournament results recently to back it up.

Just my opinion. I also consider Quan in your Krowned Royalty section, but again, just my opinion.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

I like this list solely because of the fact that it's has all variations

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I think BG Kotal is probably better than SG, and BG Kotal is way too low on the list IMO. I think he's a solid upper-mid. 114xWhiff Air grab in to B12xExPizza RC and repeat is very strong. I feel like Kotal is being slept on in general./ I dont think he's secret top-tier but he's very strong with some decent tournament results recently to back it up.

Just my opinion. I also consider Quan in your Krowned Royalty section, but again, just my opinion.

I think after the parry buffs blood God is the best defensive variant in the game.

 

[FinalBoss_FGC]

Ancestral KJ B tier?

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH

 

[errormacro7]

I agree with this.

 

[Doctor Rektangle]

I think BG Kotal is probably better than SG, and BG Kotal is way too low on the list IMO. I think he's a solid upper-mid. 114xWhiff Air grab in to B12xExPizza RC and repeat is very strong. I feel like Kotal is being slept on in general./ I dont think he's secret top-tier but he's very strong with some decent tournament results recently to back it up.

Just my opinion. I also consider Quan in your Krowned Royalty section, but again, just my opinion.

While Blood God is good. He doesn't have an easy time dealing with good zoning or Sub Zero's ice klone and those are big factors in coming up with a list. Since HQT, Grand Master, Quan Chi are very common in tournament viability. Although I could see him getting a bump, but as it stands even with air thow whiff its nothign Sun God itself can't do. That and the plus shenanigans on War God's sword toss rival it as well. But him being a top tier character I personally don't see it but I can see him being middle of the pack right now. He's still has to find a way to initiate this offense.

What stopping BS shinnok from being s+ ?

Is it the meter dependency?

That and Regular Sparks are punishable and he was nerfed from his days as the Zealot. Still super good obviously. Although putting him up there wouldn't shake me. I just don't see him as on par on a 1 to 1 setting as those there now.

All Jax variations should be next to each other.

They are. 2 are in A and 1 is in A-. The levels themselves aren't in order just as they came to me when I typed it out. Sorry if that was the confusion.

 

[Redux]

I like the color coding. Why do you think special forces is better than covert sonya? I barely see it played so I want to be enlightened if possible.

 

[Lokheit]

There is no way Unbreakable is on the same tier than any other Sub-Zero, that variation used to be the worst or at least one of the worsts in the whole game and the buffs didn't make it much better (basically because the wrong buffs were applied, except for the addition of ice burst).

 

[WiseM0nkey]

I agree with the list in general tho you missed some variations here and there, like Hat Trick for i.e. (maybe cause lack of material to work with), but overall it's a nice reliable tier list

While Blood God is good. He doesn't have an easy time dealing with good zoning or Sub Zero's ice klone and those are big factors in coming up with a list. Since HQT, Grand Master, Quan Chi are very common in tournament viability. Although I could see him getting a bump, but as it stands even with air thow whiff its nothign Sun God itself can't do. That and the plus shenanigans on War God's sword toss rival it as well. But him being a top tier character I personally don't see it but I can see him being middle of the pack right now. He's still has to find a way to initiate this offense.

i agree on blood god being lower then sun god, tick throws in this game are sooo good imo cause of block button, but i mean, Kotal in general is a whiff punish safe / plus machine tbh, he has some of the best footise in the game, and a lot of his staggers are super effective.

also his jip1 is just too good lol

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Kenjutsu lower than Balanced.... Riiiiite
Summoner lower than Predator.... Riiiiite
Hellfire, Cromancer and Ninjutsu, all a tier lower than Balanced, Cutthroat, and Dualist.... Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiite





My variation isn't even UP there.


Don't mean to be a dick cause there is a lot I agree with up there, some is pretty weird tho lol!

 

[QUAN-FUSION]

The only question I have is why special forces sonya so high? I've never seen anything great from this.
Yet...

 

[Doctor Rektangle]

I agree with everything but I think aftershock, balanced, piercing, hunter, HQT, and royal storm could move lower. And possibly cyomancer, warlock, ninjutsu, sun god, shirai ryu, summoner and blood god could move up. Really great list imo and I'm glad someone did it with variations for once

The reason why HQT is up there is those EX straight lasers are a nuisance. Plus cancels on block, don't lose function on hit, and the fact a lot of variations just can't find ways in makes it look unbearable at times. EX Laser combos and the ability to control the air with disc, and anti air shots. He is a well rounded character with no real weaknesses in the gameplan.

I Subbed- Warlock quan for a while and a lot of his stuff that rivals his other 2 variations requires 2 bars. Having EX Scoop is a solid tool but not enough to save him. Although I do miss the damage when scoop didn't scale right and always added 5% at the end of combos. v.v

Ninjitsu does have good spacing but he has to make hard commits on cancelling anything off B3 which could lead into big damage since all of Ninjitsu's specials even EX'ed are punishable. Which makes going for the "vortex" although the overhead is reactable even more risky. His defensive options with proper spacing are really good. However the problem lies on characters that can play that mid screen distance game and there's a lot in the game. That and at certain ranges that f2 is not always safe so those Wake Up Reads can also be risky especially when its a character that can do big damage meterless to 1 bar. And in this game playing defensively is not the most rewarded of playstyles.

I explained Royal Storm somewhere else on the thread.

Shirai Ryu doesn't get the mileage it used to with its Kunai gimmicks and strats. Although he still has good offense his teleport cancels are losing a bit of their luster once people finally figured out this MU. That and challenge checking those unsafe kunai tosses which can all be Scimitar slammed, which is not the fastest reversal by far.

As for piercing I'd be okay if I moved it down too or stayed where its at.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

The reason why HQT is up there is those EX straight lasers are a nuisance. Plus cancels on block, don't lose function on hit, and the fact a lot of variations just can't find ways in makes it look unbearable at times. EX Laser combos and the ability to control the air with disc, and anti air shots. He is a well rounded character with no real weaknesses in the gameplan.

I Subbed- Warlock quan for a while and a lot of his stuff that rivals his other 2 variations requires 2 bars. Having EX Scoop is a solid tool but not enough to save him. Although I do miss the damage when scoop didn't scale right and always added 5% at the end of combos. v.v

Ninjitsu does have good spacing but he has to make hard commits on cancelling anything off B3 which could lead into big damage since all of Ninjitsu's specials even EX'ed are punishable. Which makes going for the "vortex" although the overhead is reactable even more risky. His defensive options with proper spacing are really good. However the problem lies on characters that can play that mid screen distance game and there's a lot in the game. That and at certain ranges that f2 is not always safe so those Wake Up Reads can also be risky especially when its a character that can do big damage meterless to 1 bar. And in this game playing defensively is not the most rewarded of playstyles.

I explained Royal Storm somewhere else on the thread.

Shirai Ryu doesn't get the mileage it used to with its Kunai gimmicks and strats. Although he still has good offense his teleport cancels are losing a bit of their luster once people finally figured out this MU. That and challenge checking those unsafe kunai tosses which can all be Scimitar slammed, which is not the fastest reversal by far.

As for piercing I'd be okay if I moved it down too or stayed where its at.

I know warlock Quan isn't as good as the others but in B tier with spectral ermac? Goddamn he's better than that. I agree with all your reasoning but the 13 variations I mentioned just didn't add up based on the characters they shared a tier with imo.

 

[Doctor Rektangle]

The only question I have is why special forces sonya so high? I've never seen anything great from this.
Yet...

Its kind of like Skarlet in MK9. You won't see it online because it messes with timing but drone combos are just as deadly on hit as the plus frames they are on block and sometimes using it like Quan Chi's bat to hold opponents in place. For your 50/50's and allowing you to break 35-40% meterless with drones various options. An OH a Low, and a mid laser that's slow enough to make people respect otherwise unsafe options.

Spoiler

and the third portion of this bottom video shows some of the stuff it has utility wise too and park cancels.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Hat Trick doesn't exist on that list, this just implies how shitty it is.

 

[Doctor Rektangle]

Kenjutsu lower than Balanced.... Riiiiite
Summoner lower than Predator.... Riiiiite
Hellfire, Cromancer and Ninjutsu, all a tier lower than Balanced, Cutthroat, and Dualist.... Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiite





My variation isn't even UP there.


Don't mean to be a dick cause there is a lot I agree with up there, some is pretty weird tho lol!

Hat trick was in my file but some how when i slipped it over to tym I didn't catch it but I'll edit that after this post. Thanks for pointing it out.
As for Ninjitusu I explained why I put it there with someone else earlier.

Cryomancer gets away with a lot of unpunished B2's although his damage I could've probably taken into more consideration he does hit like a truck.

Why would you not have hellfire beneath dualist. After the FBC nerfs for scorpion. I think dualists pressure IMO is a bit more tricky than Hellfires to deal with. While his db4 flame aura is good still doesn't change the fact his resets and main avenues of damage are still meter dependent. combining FBCs with throws is similar to how Dualist can with orbs.

And for the Kenshi one holy shit... well.. I put those two on there backwards. On this one I straight fudged up. I'll fix that too! Thank you.

 

[DrFolmer]

HW Jax is good no doubt but the frames on his cancels are over rated. A lot can be disrespected with armor and aren't true block strings etc. He's good and must be respected with OHDP as an option to good midstream to awe inspiring corner damage.

A list cage on the other hand has the cancel and pressure tools to keep hia pressure not only good with the following.

F3 - gets you in

EX nut punch - SAFE on block launcher

Shadow kick cancels on block building crazy amounts of meter and some good Dot chip.

Combine being plus with the 11, f2, the throw and the 113 mix ups you have a character that you want no where near in your face. While Jax pressure is good and he can zone out certain members of the cast I belive in such a rush down heavy game Cage has a lot of advantages we just haven't seen sprout full wings in tournament.

Speculation yes. Based on what I know of the characters. I do like you questioning me. Would you have it the other way around if so why?

Im pretty sure EX nutpunch is unsafe on block - I coulda swear all those times I got punished for it was due to the move being unsafe and not my block button malfunctioning.

Nevertheless runcancels are good it's the same old shit. Standing 4 completely jails into 114 into Forceballs for good chip and leaves johnny at + frames if the opponent decides to fire back without armor. Going directly into 11,113 or f2 mixup can be fuzzy guarded - one has to stagger strings in order to throw the opponent off guard. As a result, Johnny can still be blown up by armor when he's on the offense and if you watch Cage players in action that thing does happen at times.

Im sure you're well aware of this already mate - you just make it sound like everything Johnny does on block is a true block string.

D4 however helps a lot with its low profiling and good hit advantage which opens up for f3 into pressure of your choice.

I think people tend to forget the amount of damage Jax gets for absolutely no meter and his good armor breaking tools. I would put them right next to each other - probably giving Jax the edge because Johnny has horrible jumps.

 

[Zyphox]

cool more tier lists where predator could be considered best in the game and better than quan chi

 

[Schuyler]

This looks pretty good but I think tremor crystalline is better than aftershock. Quan chi summoner needs to be in A tier and warlock up in A-

 

[Dankster Morgan]

HW Jax is good no doubt but the frames on his cancels are over rated. A lot can be disrespected with armor and aren't true block strings etc. He's good and must be respected with OHDP as an option to good midstream to awe inspiring corner damage.

A list cage on the other hand has the cancel and pressure tools to keep hia pressure not only good with the following.

F3 - gets you in

EX nut punch - SAFE on block launcher

Shadow kick cancels on block building crazy amounts of meter and some good Dot chip.

Combine being plus with the 11, f2, the throw and the 113 mix ups you have a character that you want no where near in your face. While Jax pressure is good and he can zone out certain members of the cast I belive in such a rush down heavy game Cage has a lot of advantages we just haven't seen sprout full wings in tournament.

Speculation yes. Based on what I know of the characters. I do like you questioning me. Would you have it the other way around if so why?

The 113 and 11 f2 mixup isn't actually all that good, I believe it can be fuzzy guarded with ease. Ex nutpunch is not safe whatsoever. But everything else is true, especially d4 that thing is amazing quite possibly the best d4 in the game.

 

[Doctor Rektangle]

The 113 and 11 f2 mixup isn't actually all that good, I believe it can be fuzzy guarded with ease. Ex nutpunch is not safe whatsoever. But everything else is true, especially d4 that thing is amazing quite possibly the best d4 in the game.

11, f2 vs 113 is not a good Mixup that's why said "the throw" you toss that in there fuzzying isnt something you can just simply rely on. As for EX nut punch you're right. A few characters can def get that punish. My mistake.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

11, f2 vs 113 is not a good Mixup that's why said "the throw" you toss that in there fuzzying isnt something you can just simply rely on. As for EX nut punch you're right. A few characters can def get that punish. My mistake.

I agree the throw can come in handy. The main mixup I use is d4 and f2, even though d4 doesn't combo it puts cage at a massive advantage, and nobody wants to get hit by a d4. Then you can get the f2s going hehe.

 

[One Inch Punch]

I Think reptile's variations aren't so different .