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General/Other - Raiden God of thunder has to stop falling to nerf abyss!!

Nivek

Nivek

Athena guide me, the thunder God...
Quoting from older and new patches:
14-5
  • Raiden - Shocker was causing combo damage scaling to be reset. (ok bug fix)
  • Raiden (Thunder God) - adjusted some combo damage scaling (his damage was ok, the shocker at the end of the combos was the problem but nooooo lets nerf the electric strings also)
6-1
  • Raiden – F1 is now a high (ok its tooooo much a 6 frame mid, but he left with bad or too slow mids after this patch)
23-6
  • Raiden - Supernatural combo (Away + FK, BK) can now be 2in1 cancelled out of (they gave a reason to use it, not such a buff though)
  • Raiden - reduced the hitbox of Electric Fly & Thunder Fly (because of @Tom Brady lol)
  • Raiden (Thunder God) - slightly less chip damage on charged normals (extra damage nerf for the chip this time)
  • Raiden (Master of Storms/Displacer) - now has a God's Rage combo (Towards + FP, BP, Away + BP) (an actually good buff for the other 2 variation!! but still wasn't enough)
31-8
  • Removed the ability to add extra inputs while doing a normal attack 2in1 cancel which allowed some characters to have the special move cancel only occur on hit / block (thank NRS OS are out! but its a huge nerf for raidens 50/50)
+
  • Raiden - Adjusted several regular attack collisions to hit more consistently on ducking opponents and in combos (b11 and f2 fixed to hit more consistently...but they still whiff but not as much as before)
  • Raiden - Lightning Projectile no longer causes auto block (edit:thanks @KingHippo no longer auto block during hitstun animation)
  • Raiden - Towards+BK is now -3 on block (up from -12) (at last!! 24f mid is safe)
  • Raiden - Fixed a bug that was causing Away+FP,BK to sometimes be more negative on hit on ducking opponents (ok bug fix)
  • Raiden (Displacer) - Removed 10 recovery frames from Teleport (good but not as good as mk9, maybe good against zoning)
  • Raiden (Displacer) - Teleport (in front) no longer costs stamina (good)
  • Raiden (Master of Storms) - Static Trap now does small proximity damage to the opponent before they are activated (also stops running, still un unuseful)
  • Plus secret combo nerf f12b2 , f12b2 , f12b2 , bf3 is extremelly hard to do it offline , online impossible
So count with me the nerfs :
3 damage nerfs
2 move nerfs
=
5 nerfs are enough to take Raiden from Top1 (Huge damage and safe 6frame mid)
into
Top?15-20 according Yomi tier list (medium damage character with no good mid, super unsafe overhead and slow low starter)

in conclusion: he was nerfed because they couldnt do anything about OS..but now what can we do?
electric strings do more hits than damage, only safe low starter(but with small damage)
also the 2 other variations need the f12b2 straing back and maybe without a gap(?) for some damage
we need 2 bars to do 40+ when quan does 50s with a bat out!
#buffnerfedraiden

discuss...
EDIT:
My thoughts about some changes copied by later post:
what i think he needs and MAYBE IS OK..
1) NON low profiled,fixed b11(still whiffs sometimes)
2) His damage from lighting string not being scaling so much
3) His low pokes dont be so much punishable and/or give enough frame advantage on hit

for the other 2 variations:

1) No gap on f12b2 (really why there is a gap? its -2)
2) MOS orbs better recovery
3) Fixed his prepatch combo f12b2 x3 bf3
4) b34 exdf2 connect more consistant
5) Revarsal balance (ex df2 more safe[edit: -10~11??] because its a high but can be canceled on strings, or ex db3 fix damage scaling)

@GGA Dizzy (even though you abandon us! JK :p )
@Digit
@brizzle
@Chaosphere
@Train
@all other raiden players that we left
 
Last edited:
spor

spor

Lord Raiden, Khanum Mileena
I agree with the decision to nerf his damage or his option selects but not both. It's ok to take a ridiculous character down a notch but over the patches they've taken him down notch after notch and all we are left with is mid damage and unsafe mix-ups. I feel that raiden has lost all of his draws and is now a generic character which is fine but when other characters have area's that they great in it gives raiden less viability in my opinion (But I'm just a shitter.)
#nrsplsnerfnerfs
 
Surferkidjared

Surferkidjared

I'm goin in!
I don't mind the dmg nerf either. Sucks with the OS out as well because Raidens OH is mad unsafe. The opponent could block, go make a cup of coffee and come back and still punish the shit out of you. I Just feel my options are so slim now when I play him. I just want more options with him instead of the same f12 string which gets poked out of a lot.
 
infamy23

infamy23

FireBeard
As long as he relies on that unsafe high/low mixup in order to get damage, then he is doomed.

People love to complain about 50/50's but what they don't seem to realize is that every time Raiden goes for his b2/b3 mix-up, he is putting HIMSELF in a 50/50 as well.

In fact, when your opponent has meter, it's worse than a 50/50 because his opponent can armor and beat both options, which means Raiden gets damage 33% of the time, and the other 66% of the time he gets full combo punished.

This scenario gets even worse after a superman in the corner, because Raiden has to make THREE consecutive guesses in order to hit you with a b2/b3 on your wakeup.

First he must guess whether or not you will armor.

If he guesses correctly that you will not armor, then he must guess if you will delayed wakeup.

if he guesses correctly that you will delayed wakeup, then he must guess if you are going to block high or low.

If he guesses incorrectly on ANY of these he gets punished.

The risk reward for this character is a joke.

After playing Tanya the past couple of weeks, there is just no reason to play a character like Raiden who is constantly at risk of being full combo punished, when someone like Tanya can just chip you to death until you decide to make a hard read against her. If you don't know the Tanya matchup and just sit there blocking, you lose automatically. A novice MK player can randomly beat a high level Raiden player simply by holding block and getting lucky 3 times in 1 round.
 
Scott The Scot

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
infamy23 said:
As long as he relies on that unsafe high/low mixup in order to get damage, then he is doomed.

People love to complain about 50/50's but what they don't seem to realize is that every time Raiden goes for his b2/b3 mix-up, he is putting HIMSELF in a 50/50 as well.

In fact, when your opponent has meter, it's worse than a 50/50 because his opponent can armor and beat both options, which means Raiden gets damage 33% of the time, and the other 66% of the time he gets full combo punished.

This scenario gets even worse after a superman in the corner, because Raiden has to make THREE consecutive guesses in order to hit you with a b2/b3 on your wakeup.

First he must guess whether or not you will armor.

If he guesses correctly that you will not armor, then he must guess if you will delayed wakeup.

if he guesses correctly that you will delayed wakeup, then he must guess if you are going to block high or low.

If he guesses incorrectly on ANY of these he gets punished.

The risk reward for this character is a joke.

After playing Tanya the past couple of weeks, there is just no reason to play a character like Raiden who is constantly at risk of being full combo punished, when someone like Tanya can just chip you to death until you decide to make a hard read against her. If you don't know the Tanya matchup and just sit there blocking, you lose automatically. A novice MK player can randomly beat a high level Raiden player simply by holding block and getting lucky 3 times in 1 round.
Click to expand...
Stuff like guessing if they'll wakeup is just a part of fighting games. That's just the Oki game, man. Chill, breh.
 
infamy23

infamy23

FireBeard
Scott The Scot said:
Stuff like guessing if they'll wakeup is just a part of fighting games. That's just the Oki game, man. Chill, breh.
Click to expand...
My point, is that his entire offense is dependent on this guessing game, and the risk/reward with regards to the oki is heavily in his opponent's favor even when Raiden has frame advantage.

Thanks for talking down to me as if I haven't been playing fighting games since 1992 though.
 
infamy23

infamy23

FireBeard
Qwark28 said:
I agree that he was nerfed because of the OS and now they're gone.

Something reasonable is reverting F1 back to mid and making the startup 9f.
Click to expand...
That would do more harm than good imo.

He already has an 8 frame mid, and if you make f1 9f he will lose his ability to punish a ton of stuff in this game, and a lot of other stuff will become a frame perfect punish.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
infamy23 said:
That would do more harm than good imo.

He already has an 8 frame mid, and if you make f1 9f he will lose his ability to punish a ton of stuff in this game, and a lot of other stuff will become a frame perfect punish.
Click to expand...
But is that mid as good as F1?
 
Scott The Scot

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
infamy23 said:
My point, is that his entire offense is dependent on this guessing game, and the risk/reward with regards to the oki is heavily in his opponent's favor even when Raiden has frame advantage.

Thanks for talking down to me as if I haven't been playing fighting games since 1992 though.
Click to expand...
I'm not talking down to you. Stop being so overly-sensitive, I haven't done or said anything wrong... In this thread anyway lol :p
 
Asodimazze

Asodimazze

https://twitter.com/AlfioZacco
I don't think he needs any kind of buff, he is still a good character with 2 (maybe 3) great variations; you still have the option to make the b2 safe and renounce to the big combo, or risk a punish and go for big damage...this is how it should always have been.

On top of my mind, Raiden still has:

- Best wall carry in the game
- Some of the best anti airs
- 6 frame punish
- Good damage (of course his damage is very low compared to Quan Chi, but no one should do as much damage as him)
- Good wake up options
- Good 50/50

Not top 5 anymore, but very very viable imho
 
DreadKnight1

DreadKnight1

Beaten, by this mere man
I made a thread about what they should do to buff raiden but it was closed down:coffee:

Displacer solely needs teleport to recover slightly faster so that it's not the case of all of his strings into teleport get him full combo punished(except just f22+4). Master of storms needs a slight improvement to the recovery of orbs and have them connect mid on the ground so people can't just poke out all day long.as for thunder God I'm unsure-maybe removing the gaps between the double sparks strings or reducing the scaling of sparks strings on hit?...I made loads of suggestions but I'm not even sure they'll help
 
DreadKnight1

DreadKnight1

Beaten, by this mere man
Asodimazze said:
I don't think he needs any kind of buff, he is still a good character with 2 (maybe 3) great variations; you still have the option to make the b2 safe and renounce to the big combo, or risk a punish and go for big damage...this is how it should always have been.

On top of my mind, Raiden still has:

- Best wall carry in the game
- Some of the best anti airs
- 6 frame punish
- Good damage (of course his damage is very low compared to Quan Chi, but no one should do as much damage as him)
- Good wake up options
- Good 50/50

Not top 5 anymore, but very very viable imho
Click to expand...
His footsies suck which is the main problem. F1 being high was a big hit and now his best mid string is b11 which I constantly whiffs against some blocking opponents and after that there's f24 which has no real follow ups.he gets really easily abused especially by characters like Lao,cage and cassie who are footy monsters
 
infamy23

infamy23

FireBeard
Qwark28 said:
But is that mid as good as F1?
Click to expand...
Assuming f1 was 9f, it would be debatable. f1 has a better hitbox for sure, but it doesnt lead to much.

b1 leads to b11 LRC which is +3 on block.
The only time I would use a 9f f1 is in the rare situations where b11 would whiff.
 
Cerebru

Cerebru

Mortal
Nivek said:
Quoting from older and new patches:
14-5
  • Raiden - Shocker was causing combo damage scaling to be reset. (ok bug fix)
  • Raiden (Thunder God) - adjusted some combo damage scaling (his damage was ok, the shocker at the end of the combos was the problem but nooooo lets nerf the electric strings also)
6-1
  • Raiden – F1 is now a high (ok its tooooo much a 6 frame mid, but he left with bad or too slow mids after this patch)
23-6
  • Raiden - Supernatural combo (Away + FK, BK) can now be 2in1 cancelled out of (they gave a reason to use it, not such a buff though)
  • Raiden - reduced the hitbox of Electric Fly & Thunder Fly (because of @Tom Brady lol)
  • Raiden (Thunder God) - slightly less chip damage on charged normals (extra damage nerf for the chip this time)
  • Raiden (Master of Storms/Displacer) - now has a God's Rage combo (Towards + FP, BP, Away + BP) (an actually good buff for the other 2 variation!! but still wasn't enough)
31-8
  • Removed the ability to add extra inputs while doing a normal attack 2in1 cancel which allowed some characters to have the special move cancel only occur on hit / block (thank NRS OS are out! but its a huge nerf for raidens 50/50)
+
  • Raiden - Adjusted several regular attack collisions to hit more consistently on ducking opponents and in combos (b11 and f2 fixed to hit more consistently...but they still whiff but not as much as before)
  • Raiden - Lightning Projectile no longer causes auto block (what? fake!!)
  • Raiden - Towards+BK is now -3 on block (up from -12) (at last!! 24f mid is safe)
  • Raiden - Fixed a bug that was causing Away+FP,BK to sometimes be more negative on hit on ducking opponents (ok bug fix)
  • Raiden (Displacer) - Removed 10 recovery frames from Teleport (good but not as good as mk9, maybe good against zoning)
  • Raiden (Displacer) - Teleport (in front) no longer costs stamina (good)
  • Raiden (Master of Storms) - Static Trap now does small proximity damage to the opponent before they are activated (also stops running, still un unuseful)
  • Plus secret combo nerf f12b2 , f12b2 , f12b2 , bf3 is extremelly hard to do it offline , online impossible
So count with me the nerfs :
3 damage nerfs
2 move nerfs
=
5 nerfs are enough to take Raiden from Top1 (Huge damage and safe 6frame mid)
into
Top?15-20 according Yomi tier list (medium damage character with no good mid, super unsafe overhead and slow low starter)

in conclusion: he was nerfed because they couldnt do anything about OS..but now what can we do?
electric strings do more hits than damage, only safe low starter(but with small damage)
also the 2 other variations need the f12b2 straing back and maybe without a gap(?) for some damage
we need 2 bars to do 40+ when quan does 50s with a bat out!
#buffnerfedraiden

discuss...

@GGA Dizzy (even though you abandon us! JK :p )
@Digit
@brizzle
@Chaosphere
@Train
@all other raiden players that we left
Click to expand...
Yes F4 should be faster and B2 shouldn't be negative forever on block and whiff... TF I'm supposed to do when lag hits... TG is fine maybe some anti zoning options but for displacer no combo opportunity just gimmicks back to TG... ok low profile all my high strings shout outs to NRS lol wait all the varies get low profiled like nobody's business. Pick up new char with better mids... or play the char I bought the game for? B33 should be a double low. Raiden gets nothing off the low. Can displacer get the B32 string as well, or make B33 less than neg 14. Rant. MK9 Tele separates the men from the boys. I'm just saying.
 
Cerebru

Cerebru

Mortal
infamy23 said:
My point, is that his entire offense is dependent on this guessing game, and the risk/reward with regards to the oki is heavily in his opponent's favor even when Raiden has frame advantage.

Thanks for talking down to me as if I haven't been playing fighting games since 1992 though.
Click to expand...
Add me I'll help you level up.
 
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