Jumping takes longer from crouch block

[TheIrishFGCguy]

So, you're goal is to make this game look terrible.

How on earth could you possibly come to that conclusion?

 

[Slips]

Oh really? I wasn't aware it was common. I certainly haven't come across it mentioned by other communities in my - admittedly limited - time playing fighting games. Do you have an example I could go looking for in, say, SFIV? Or another game?

There's countless examples in SFIV where some combos will work on crouching opponent's but not standing. Same for Guilty Gear and many others. Even as far back as ST. Just Blanka's jumping roundhouse to sweep didn't work on standing opponent's but did on crouch.

It's the same reason why you can't armor or backdash out of some of Takeda's strings unless you start off blocking low first. Same with a bunch of other stuff I'm sure.

 

[kevkopdx]

Does this affect low pokes? Because I'm assuming you don't need to go to standing state before you can low poke. Does it affect reversals or just jumps/normals?

i dont think it affects reversals but they tested it with a lot of characters and strings/specials... it seems that universally any move blocked crouching adds one or two frames, so a neutral can become plus in cases

 

[Tom Brady]

i dont think it affects reversals but they tested it with a lot of characters and strings/specials... it seems that universally any move blocked crouching adds one or two frames, so a neutral can become plus in cases

Is there a link to this?

 

[ghostwriteous]

i dont think it affects reversals but they tested it with a lot of characters and strings/specials... it seems that universally any move blocked crouching adds one or two frames, so a neutral can become plus in cases

Doesn't that make sense though since you to have to get up in order to move?

 

[kevkopdx]

Is there a link to this?

i dont know, i was watching it live a few hours ago... but after watching your second video, they might not have been testing it properly... they were using neutral jumps to determine frames

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I wasn't aware of it, thanks for sharing.

Is everything else about the jump exactly the same? Just takes longer to start?

 

[chemicalNova]

There's countless examples in SFIV where some combos will work on crouching opponent's but not standing.

Oh yes, of course - of that I was aware. Now I am confused since the original post said the frame data was in fact changing based on stance of the defender ... but now it says its not changing? :/

 

[Tom Brady]

i dont know, i was watching it live a few hours ago... but after watching your second video, they might not have been testing it properly... they were using neutral jumps to determine frames

You cannot test adv buy using jumping from crouch block. It does not prove the frame data is actually changing.

 

[Tom Brady]

Oh yes, of course - of that I was aware. Now I am confused since the original post said the frame data was in fact changing based on stance of the defender ... but now it says its not changing? :/

because it was worded different to me. It was worded as if moves are now adv. Once I found out the testing method I wanted to defuse the rumor that was going through most stream chats. I got like 4 calls alone talking about.

 

[kevkopdx]

You cannot test adv buy using jumping from crouch block. It does not prove the frame data is actually changing.

i wouldnt have thought of that, but thats what they were doing... initially they were trying to poke out the same normal, but someone in chat suggested neutral jumps

 

[Enexemander]

They tested normals. You should do the same and post that video, Tom. It would be more helpful.

 

[Tom Brady]

They tested normals. You should do the same and post that video, Tom. It would be more helpful.

I have tested that specific situation in the video with normals and the frame data was the same.

 

[Sutter Pain]

Just so I am on the same page with what is the correct information I have to ask.

If my mid is -2 it will remain -2 regardless if the person blocks crouching or standing, correct?

 

[buyacushun]

Just posting a video of SF where Rolento is closer to you if you block his roll standing. I know this isn't exactly the same thing but just showing a type of odd thing happening with these kinda games different character states. I don't know if it still happens.

http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/jun/27/punishing-rolentos-pesky-roll-attack-block-hurtboxes-need-fixing-and-c-viper-tricks-against-hugo-sonyonos-latest-usf4-tech/

Thanks Brady for properly testing this stuff. I don't know if it was the YOMI guys or just someone watching since it seems this was streamed but people should really make sure of thing before making claims. Especially ones that can majorly affect the game like this.

 

[Tom Brady]

Just posting a video of SF where Rolento is closer to you if you block his roll standing. I know this isn't exactly the same thing but just showing a type of odd thing happening with these kinda games different character states. I don't know if it still happens.

http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/jun/27/punishing-rolentos-pesky-roll-attack-block-hurtboxes-need-fixing-and-c-viper-tricks-against-hugo-sonyonos-latest-usf4-tech/

Thanks Brady for properly testing this stuff. I don't know if it was the YOMI guys or just someone watching since it seems this was streamed but people should really make sure of thing before making claims. Especially ones that can majorly affect the game like this.

And just for clarification..

I have not heard ANYONE from YOMI say that crouch blocking causes frames to change. This was just chatter gone wild from people who were watching them test.

 

[Pan1cMode]

And just for clarification..

I have not heard ANYONE from YOMI say that crouch blocking causes frames to change. This was just chatter gone wild from people who were watching them test.

I don't think it's a matter of frames changing, more a matter of moves having to go through standing animation frames before coming out.

So if you block a move crouching then retaliate with s1, you have to first stand (which may take 1-2 frames) then the s1 comes out, much like there is 1 frame after letting go of block before normals come out.

I was seeking clarification on whether or not reversals and crouching normals have this as well.

Probably the easiest way to test this is to find a move that's between -7 and -10 and test if the move can be punished by a 6-9 frame move (respectively) from both crouch and standing. It'd have to be a move that hits mid.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Hmm so i blocked slayers f2 from lao with lao and we both did d1s and i got beat by his d1 everytime....
hmmmmm
@Tom Brady

 

[Pan1cMode]

Hmm so i blocked slayers f2 from lao with lao and we both did d1s and i got beat by his d1 everytime.... hmmmmm

What is f2 on block?

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Is f2 -1 or neutral on block?

-1 is what it says which equates to neutral since i have to let go of block, we should be trading. I tested it on stand block and i was beating him.

 

[Pan1cMode]

-1 is what it says which equates to neutral since i have to let go of block, we should be trading. I tested it on stand block and i was beating him.

That's weird. So it does affect low pokes?

Can't see why you'd be winning after stand blocking either.

 

[Tom Brady]

Hmm so i blocked slayers f2 from lao with lao and we both did d1s and i got beat by his d1 everytime.... hmmmmm

I think it takes at least one frame to come out of block maybe? Could be that maybe? I am not disagreeing with you, I have always felt that 0 felt more like +1/+2 due to coming out of block. I was just saying that this was stream chatter and that I did not see it nor did I hear any of you actually say anything. Its not like you guys to over react without A LOT of testing the way stream monsters do. I just didnt want to make it seem like any nonsense was coming from you guys.

This definitely needs a lot of testing.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

I think it takes at least one frame to come out of block maybe? Could be that maybe? I am not disagreeing with you, I have always felt that 0 felt more like +1/+2 due to coming out of block. I was just saying that this was stream chatter and that I did not see it nor did I hear any of you actually say anything. Its not like you guys to over react without A LOT of testing the way stream monsters do. I just didnt want to make it seem like any nonsense was coming from you guys.

This definitely needs a lot of testing.

We tested over half the cast and @SonicFox5000 apparently knows of this as well. An example i would like ppl to test is kenshis standing 1 on crouch block and then stand block and have a character with like a 6f d1 counterpoke his d1 and see what happens when they stand or duck.

 

[Pan1cMode]

We tested over half the cast and @SonicFox5000 apparently knows of this as well. An example i would like ppl to test is kenshis standing 1 on crouch block and then stand block and have a character with like a 6f d1 counterpoke his d1 and see what happens when they stand or duck.

That would explain why I always seem to get a d1 check after 11 even though it's 0 on block.

 

[Enexemander]

And just for clarification..

I have not heard ANYONE from YOMI say that crouch blocking causes frames to change. This was just chatter gone wild from people who were watching them test.

As a "Stream Monster" that was watching that particular stream when this happened, you're incorrect. MIT, DJT and Slayer were all excited about this piece of tech and were testing with normals as well as jumps.

I really like your videos, Tom and I respect the care you take to make them. This is a good opportunity for you to break this down and make another nailing down the exact frame advantage.