Match-Up Discussion - Tanya Tanya Matchup thread

[Afro_physicist]

What is the community consensus on her match-ups?

 

[Afro_physicist]

The biggest issue I've ran into is Ermac, anyone have some tips?

 

[M2Dave]

It is too early to discuss match ups, but teleport characters may currently be classified as the most difficult adversaries. I can provide a general gameplay description of Pyromancer, so Tanya players can deduce what works and what does not against each character.

Tanya is a zoning and run away character whose gameplay revolves around the teleport, which is one of the best mobility tools in the game. An instant aerial back teleport is more or less a pre-patch Black Adam backdash that costs no stamina meter. The basic strategy involves running away with back teleports and punishing runs and dashes with grounded fireballs and instant aerial fireballs. The fireballs are non-traditional. Tanya tosses each high and low grounded fireball and each instant aerial high and low fireball at various angles. You have to familiarize yourself with the angles and the space they occupy to avoid getting punished. The EX fireball starts at 9 frames, travels horizontally, and absorbs most other fireballs.

At mid range, you have access to f+2, which is a long-ranged back fist that hits twice. The first hit starts up at 13 frames while the second hits at a much later frame (most likely 20+). f+2 can be safely canceled into the dark shroud, which is -4 on block and around +50 on hit. If the dark shroud connects, a fully charged f+3 cannot be interrupted, which may create a 50/50 mix up with a perfectly run-canceled f+3 into b+3. My execution is not good enough to perform this feat yet, at least not consistently. In addition to being safe and +50 on hit, the EX dark shroud has one hit of armor and is safe on block too. It also buffs the damage and chip damage of all fireballs, including the last hit of b+3,1,2. Speaking of b+3,1,2, the last hit is +2 block, but every character can armor through the last hit. Some characters with fast armor moves can even armor through the second hit.

Finally, Tanya has an amazing set of wake up attacks. She has access to four armored attacks in Pycromancer - the flip kick, a highly punishable overhead attack that results in an untechable knockdown, the Cammy-esque drill, a highly punishable low attack that launches, the aforementioned EX dark shroud that is safe on block and +50 on hit, and the EX teleport, which hits high but has one hit of armor and can be canceled into another teleport to escape the corner.

 

[KIllaByte]

It is too early to discuss match ups, but teleport characters may currently be classified as the most difficult adversaries. I can provide a general gameplay description of Pyromancer, so Tanya players can deduce what works and what does not against each character.

Tanya is a zoning and run away character whose gameplay revolves around the teleport, which is one of the best mobility tools in the game. An instant aerial back teleport is more or less a pre-patch Black Adam backdash that costs no stamina meter. The basic strategy involves running away with back teleports and punishing runs and dashes with grounded fireballs and instant aerial fireballs. The fireballs are non-traditional. Tanya tosses each high and low grounded fireball and each instant aerial high and low fireball at various angles. You have to familiarize yourself with the angles and the space they occupy to avoid getting punished. The EX fireball starts at 9 frames, travels horizontally, and absorbs most other fireballs.

At mid range, you have access to f+2, which is a long-ranged back fist that hits twice. The first hit starts up at 13 frames while the second hits at a much later frame (most likely 20+). f+2 can be safely canceled into the dark shroud, which is -4 on block and around +50 on hit. If the dark shroud connects, a fully charged f+3 cannot be interrupted, which may create a 50/50 mix up with a perfectly run-canceled f+3 into b+3. My execution is not good enough to perform this feat yet, at least not consistently. In addition to being safe and +50 on hit, the EX dark shroud has one hit of armor and is safe on block too. It also buffs the damage and chip damage of all fireballs, including the last hit of b+3,1,2. Speaking of b+3,1,2, the last hit is +2 block, but every character can armor through the last hit. Some characters with fast armor moves can even armor through the second hit.

Finally, Tanya has an amazing set of wake up attacks. She has access to four armored attacks in Pycromancer - the flip kick, a highly punishable overhead attack that results in an untechable knockdown, the Cammy-esque drill, a highly punishable low attack that launches, the aforementioned EX dark shroud that is safe on block and +50 on hit, and the EX teleport, which hits high but has one hit of armor and can be canceled into another teleport to escape the corner.

I watched some of your play against Honeybee.
I like what you do, but try to get hitconfirming ex teleports and random air hits down, because air hits go into forward teleport NJP really nicely.
I'm not sure how much you trusted the online connection, but I'm glad you're trying Tanya.
You didn't mention the plus F2 teleport cancels, by the way. Those go into a tick throw or low real nicely for me on block, give those a whirl.

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

I've only been playing Draginata but any character that doesn't let me pogo freely is a problem so far.
Off the top of my head: Raiden, Heavy weapons Jax, Shirai Ryu Takeda, Ermac, full auto Jacqui, Mileena, and Pyro Tanya.

That's just 1 tool but it's one of Tanya's main approaches in this variation, plus the same tools make teleporting not as free.

 

[Afro_physicist]

It is too early to discuss match ups, but teleport characters may currently be classified as the most difficult adversaries. I can provide a general gameplay description of Pyromancer, so Tanya players can deduce what works and what does not against each character.

Tanya is a zoning and run away character whose gameplay revolves around the teleport, which is one of the best mobility tools in the game. An instant aerial back teleport is more or less a pre-patch Black Adam backdash that costs no stamina meter. The basic strategy involves running away with back teleports and punishing runs and dashes with grounded fireballs and instant aerial fireballs. The fireballs are non-traditional. Tanya tosses each high and low grounded fireball and each instant aerial high and low fireball at various angles. You have to familiarize yourself with the angles and the space they occupy to avoid getting punished. The EX fireball starts at 9 frames, travels horizontally, and absorbs most other fireballs.

At mid range, you have access to f+2, which is a long-ranged back fist that hits twice. The first hit starts up at 13 frames while the second hits at a much later frame (most likely 20+). f+2 can be safely canceled into the dark shroud, which is -4 on block and around +50 on hit. If the dark shroud connects, a fully charged f+3 cannot be interrupted, which may create a 50/50 mix up with a perfectly run-canceled f+3 into b+3. My execution is not good enough to perform this feat yet, at least not consistently. In addition to being safe and +50 on hit, the EX dark shroud has one hit of armor and is safe on block too. It also buffs the damage and chip damage of all fireballs, including the last hit of b+3,1,2. Speaking of b+3,1,2, the last hit is +2 block, but every character can armor through the last hit. Some characters with fast armor moves can even armor through the second hit.

Finally, Tanya has an amazing set of wake up attacks. She has access to four armored attacks in Pycromancer - the flip kick, a highly punishable overhead attack that results in an untechable knockdown, the Cammy-esque drill, a highly punishable low attack that launches, the aforementioned EX dark shroud that is safe on block and +50 on hit, and the EX teleport, which hits high but has one hit of armor and can be canceled into another teleport to escape the corner.

I played with that strategy (pyro) against pressure characters like Dvorrah, Johnny, Cassie, Sonya, and LIu Kang and that worked out well. But, like you said, teleport type characters are more of a problem. DN might be a better variation for those matchups because of its ability to capitalize on damage from f2 or 112.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I watched some of your play against Honeybee.
I like what you do, but try to get hitconfirming ex teleports and random air hits down, because air hits go into forward teleport NJP really nicely.
I'm not sure how much you trusted the online connection, but I'm glad you're trying Tanya.
You didn't mention the plus F2 teleport cancels, by the way. Those go into a tick throw or low real nicely for me on block, give those a whirl.

@General M2Dave

where is this footage?

 

[Eddy Wang]

All 3 variations are good and can be MU specific. But is kinda early to tell which MU she wins or lose.

I've been extensively playing Dragon Naginata and even if she can pogo into teleport continuously that is more of a escaping too with a lot of mind games included which i haven't uncovered all of them just yet.

Kobujutsu seems to be more of a balanced between offense and defense compared to Dragon Naginata who i believe to be more about defense, range and mobility, but i'm just finding out how godlike Kobu is either, pretty dope, but won't share further without more exp.

Pyromancer is basically what Dave said if you're playing zoning, but you can play like as if you're playing MK9 Skarlet with a lot of shroud pressure to force them to react and get them some fuel into the body which kinda makes them freak out.

 

[_CHINOCUDEIRO_]

Shroud is an extremly viable tool for rushdown. Don´t think in pyromancer as a zoner or you´ll loose 50% of her potential

 

[M2Dave]

@General M2Dave

where is this footage?

Apparently on Honey Bee's YouTube channel. I had no idea he was recording our online games.

 

[Awkward Sloth]

Apparently on Honey Bee's YouTube channel. I had no idea he was recording our online games.

Don't let the fools get early incentives for nerfs. Honey bee played flash and Dvorah. He's a rush down bum. Demand that it be removed.

 

[Awkward Sloth]

It is too early to discuss match ups, but teleport characters may currently be classified as the most difficult adversaries. I can provide a general gameplay description of Pyromancer, so Tanya players can deduce what works and what does not against each character.

Tanya is a zoning and run away character whose gameplay revolves around the teleport, which is one of the best mobility tools in the game. An instant aerial back teleport is more or less a pre-patch Black Adam backdash that costs no stamina meter. The basic strategy involves running away with back teleports and punishing runs and dashes with grounded fireballs and instant aerial fireballs. The fireballs are non-traditional. Tanya tosses each high and low grounded fireball and each instant aerial high and low fireball at various angles. You have to familiarize yourself with the angles and the space they occupy to avoid getting punished. The EX fireball starts at 9 frames, travels horizontally, and absorbs most other fireballs.

At mid range, you have access to f+2, which is a long-ranged back fist that hits twice. The first hit starts up at 13 frames while the second hits at a much later frame (most likely 20+). f+2 can be safely canceled into the dark shroud, which is -4 on block and around +50 on hit. If the dark shroud connects, a fully charged f+3 cannot be interrupted, which may create a 50/50 mix up with a perfectly run-canceled f+3 into b+3. My execution is not good enough to perform this feat yet, at least not consistently. In addition to being safe and +50 on hit, the EX dark shroud has one hit of armor and is safe on block too. It also buffs the damage and chip damage of all fireballs, including the last hit of b+3,1,2. Speaking of b+3,1,2, the last hit is +2 block, but every character can armor through the last hit. Some characters with fast armor moves can even armor through the second hit.

Finally, Tanya has an amazing set of wake up attacks. She has access to four armored attacks in Pycromancer - the flip kick, a highly punishable overhead attack that results in an untechable knockdown, the Cammy-esque drill, a highly punishable low attack that launches, the aforementioned EX dark shroud that is safe on block and +50 on hit, and the EX teleport, which hits high but has one hit of armor and can be canceled into another teleport to escape the corner.

Something I've been doing against teleport characters that use grounded teleports is jump in the air and instead of doing the fire ball Id do the overhead cannon spike attack. The low version is iffy cause of the start up animation is wonky and takes too long to become active.

 

[Vak Phoenix]

Troubled mu so far, with variations

mileena: dragon naginata, pyro (takes away runaway and teleport game)
quan chi: dragon naginata (zones her out and makes it hard to get in, especially in summoner)

favorable mu so far, with variations

sonya: pyro, kobu (sonya cannot keep up with her, gets outzoned and baited by kobu)
dvorah: dragon naginata, pyro, kobu (dvorah simply cannot catch tanya, making it ultra annoying for dvorah, since she excells at rushdown)
johnny cage: pyro (johnny cannot get in, if he does she runs away)
subzero: dragon naginata (b2, b12, b32[last hit] beats iceclone attempts, pogo stance is perfect to bait out slides, after knockdown teleport back pogo, plus the runaway game after tanya gets health lead)

this is going to change but for now, i stay firm with my ideas.

 

[SaltShaker]

Having some trouble against Ermac, MoS variation. Finding it hard to implement any sort of gameplan effectively in Pyro without getting hit some type of way. Anyone with EXP in this MU?

Coincidently, my mediocre Kobu play does almost as good as my very strong Pyro play in this MU so I know something is wrong.

@General M2Dave
@Eddy Wang
@GLoRToR
@Tanya Mains

 

[Eddy Wang]

Nopes, no one playing a good ermac here yet.

 

[GLoRToR]

Having some trouble against Ermac, MoS variation. Finding it hard to implement any sort of gameplan effectively in Pyro without getting hit some type of way. Anyone with EXP in this MU?

Coincidently, my mediocre Kobu play does almost as good as my very strong Pyro play in this MU so I know something is wrong.

@General M2Dave
@Eddy Wang
@GLoRToR
@Tanya Mains

I can't give you proper game plans on -4 because I'm +9 at the moment. As soon as pc gets up to date I'll be a few weeks and I'll tell you the works with Pyro.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Only trouble I've had is playing Shinnok as Kobu Jutsu. I cant see that not ending up a bad MU. Im trying to lab Pyromancer today and see if I get different results.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Having some trouble against Ermac, MoS variation. Finding it hard to implement any sort of gameplan effectively in Pyro without getting hit some type of way. Anyone with EXP in this MU?

Coincidently, my mediocre Kobu play does almost as good as my very strong Pyro play in this MU so I know something is wrong.

@General M2Dave
@Eddy Wang
@GLoRToR
@Tanya Mains

Well, in Kobu I rush down ermac cause I don't want to give him openings to counter zone with tele or a chance to start his 50/50s. I imagine pyro wants to do the same thing except it's not as solid for rush down. I believe ermac only has one viable wake up so I (and I'm theory fighting here) might try meaty dust on his wake up.

Between that and f2 tele cancel f2 dust you have good frame control to stay on him. Err or just pick Kobu

 

[SaltShaker]

Well, in Kobu I rush down ermac cause I don't want to give him openings to counter zone with tele or a chance to start his 50/50s. I imagine pyro wants to do the same thing except it's not as solid for rush down. I believe ermac only has one viable wake up so I (and I'm theory fighting here) might try meaty dust on his wake up.

Between that and f2 tele cancel f2 dust you have good frame control to stay on him. Err or just pick Kobu

I didn't tag you because I thought you were on vacation in Antarctica or something lol.

Thanks, I'll give a more aggressive approach a run. Kobu might simply be better for this one though.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I didn't tag you because I thought you were on vacation in Antarctica or something lol.

Thanks, I'll give a more aggressive approach a run. Kobu might simply be better for this one though.

Yea but while hiking through the snow I still try to check tym if I can.

I can't play the game so I have to count on you guys to give me my jollies (no homo)

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

I don't know about Pyro but Draginata and Kobu are pretty decent against Ermac, they both have quick 2 hit moves in their strings (which I don't believe Pyro has) but Ermac's armor sucks anyway, d4 can low profile his EX soul blast and you can easily teleport hold on wake-up to bait it.

Ermac has a lot of counter-zoning tools tho so I think Pyro is her worst variation against him. You're taking a risk with everything you do against him from fullscreen really.

 

[SM StarGazer]

First post. Wooohooo.

Anyway I must say in terms of MU the only true problem I'm having is instant air fans by kitana to punish my attempts at a back teleport after a block string. BTW I'm a day 1 Kitana main.

With the Ermac match up its boiled down to how patient I play and how I abuse Kobujutsu's grotesque options. Luckily it's easy to hit confirm into 42% off one bar.

In closing/nostalgia..picture this my friends.


Subzero uses ice clone from full screen, you instantly run towards him, he charges an ice ball but you simply air flashstep behind him. The moment he throws it you begin your combo. 112-df2-df1-exdf2-NJP-J1, grab. If your lucky it'll be a brutality.

 

[dragonbluud]

her matchups arent important, shes ranked 7th on the tier list, thats all you really need to know

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

First post. Wooohooo.

Anyway I must say in terms of MU the only true problem I'm having is instant air fans by kitana to punish my attempts at a back teleport after a block string. BTW I'm a day 1 Kitana main.

With the Ermac match up its boiled down to how patient I play and how I abuse Kobujutsu's grotesque options. Luckily it's easy to hit confirm into 42% off one bar.

In closing/nostalgia..picture this my friends.


Subzero uses ice clone from full screen, you instantly run towards him, he charges an ice ball but you simply air flashstep behind him. The moment he throws it you begin your combo. 112-df2-df1-exdf2-NJP-J1, grab. If your lucky it'll be a brutality.

What's your 42% for 1 bar?

 

[SM StarGazer]

Sorry first post jitters. 36% one bar 42% two bar off the ex Tonga throw ending in the flip kick.