What are Fundamentals? - An honest Question

[Doombawkz]

With all this talk of fundamentals, one should probably clarify: What are fundamentals?

Rather to say, what qualifies as being fundamentally strong, and what mechanics enforce it or ignore it.
Do strong fundamentals make for a strong player? If so, do stronger players with less "fundamentals" still qualify as being the better player? Where is the line drawn?

I can imagine the word is thrown out without regard to its context, or at the very least, without the idea of how everyone else sees it. What do you guys think?

Is it mastery of the basics?
Is it the ability to overcome any foe?
Is it how well you can outplay someone?
Knowledge of mechanics?
Is it variety in ones skill set perhaps?

I feel like its necessary to have this topic, to figure out what everyone thinks.

 

[Shark Tank]

I've been thinking this all day.

 

[Doombawkz]

I've been thinking this all day.

I probably sound like a scrub for asking that way, but I have too.

Seems like everyone is going in a different direction.

 

[Killphil]

Is it mastery of the basics?
Is it the ability to overcome any foe?
Is it how well you can outplay someone?
Knowledge of mechanics?
Is it variety in ones skill set perhaps?

It's all of those.....but without armor.

 

[Briggs8417]

I probably sound like a scrub for asking that way, but I have too.

Seems like everyone is going in a different direction.

You sound like a bane player not a scrub...oh wait...

 

[Doombawkz]

It's all of those.....but without armor.

Lies. Grundy players have great fundamentals

You sound like a bane player not a scrub.

I mean I have my own definition of it, and I feel like Bane players actually have good fundamentals, but at the same time I see people saying that King isn't fundamentally good because he counter-picks, or that Chris G is good because he easily becomes skilled at everything he touches.

Its fair to ask where people think the borders end.

 

[Peckapowa]

Fundamentals in a basketball player:
Good ball handling, passing , correct consistent shooting, teamwork, and game knowledge.

So it's a mastery, of the universal traits ( non related to physical talent) which enable success in the game. Some of these are subjective, such as correct shooting. Reggie miller's shot was not perfectly fundamental but he was on of the greatest shooters ever.

In any sort of mastery, usually their are universal traits required, I.e. Patience discipline, precision, consistency, feel.

I would say these correlate to fighters

So the universal traits which correlate to success in fighters Imo would be:

Space control
Footsie
Patience
Analyzation of opponent
Playing matchups/neutral perfectly/ developing reactionary play
Execution
Defense
Pressure ability
Punishment

Some players aren't as complete as others but still find success because their character is so powerful it only requires some of the traits above.

An example of this would be Shaquille o'neal. He isn't a great shooter or handler ( for his size he's great but universally no) but he just powers his way and is one of the most dominant players in history. It's kind of like doomsday players just power their way in without having space control or footsies or forced to play really complicated neutrals. They just power in and dunk it.

Some players simply rely on great pressure and reads more heavily then a more universally complete balanced playstyle.

One of the reasons people frown on inj. Is because the op tools overshadow things like space control, footsies, and reactionary play... Imo the most skillful arts along with playing opponent

 

[Doombawkz]

Fundamentals in a basketball player:
Good ball handling, passing , correct consistent shooting, teamwork, and game knowledge.

So it's a mastery, of the universal traits ( non related to physical talent) which enable success in the game. Some of these are subjective, such as correct shooting. Reggie miller's shot was not perfectly fundamental but he was on of the greatest shooters ever.

In any sort of mastery, usually their are universal traits, I.e.

So you see it as more of a jack-of-all-trades type deal? interesting.

 

[RunwayMafia]

Whiff punish.

 

[RoboCop]

I could be wrong, but I've always considered fundamentals to be aspects of the game that apply to all characters: proper blocking, spacing, reactions, making reads, etc; essentially the fundamental aspects of the game.

I think a player with strong fundamentals can pick up new characters faster, but I'd say it's possible for someone to master one or more characters (including their spacing, etc), without having what could be considered "strong fundamentals".

 

[SZSR]

I tried to looked up a definition for fighting game fundamentals and this is the closest thing I found:

It goes beyond simply knowing the interface of fighting games (life bar, super meter, ultra meter, assist status, etc.). Fundamentals is talking about the basic skills that underlie every fighting game. Certain fighting games may reinforce specific fundamental skills over others, but they all use fundamentals.

Think of it in terms of sports. You [play] basketball, football, baseball, soccer, etc etc. But beyond knowing the rules of the games and certain strategies, you have to learn basic skills in order to do well at any of them. So if you play basketball, for example, you have to learn how to dribble, pass, and shoot. Those are the 3 core skills needed in basketball. So you can practice how to dunk all you want, but in the end, those 3 core skills are what's largely going to determine your performance in a game.

So how does it relate to fighting games? Well, it means things like understanding spacing, defense, anti-airs, reading player tendencies, ground game, execution, etc etc. For example, a scrub who plays at low-levels does a lot of random and risky moves. They do a lot jump attacks, random special moves, they press attack buttons without any purpose, etc etc. A top-level player understands how to properly use special moves with minimal risk, how to defend against their opponent's attack, knowing which of their attacks have priority and range, how to capitalize on momentum, and how to defuse your opponent's momentum, etc etc.

Take this with a grain of salt.

 

[TotteryManx]

In my honest opinion; Fundamentals is a broad term, but like I mentioned in another thread, I believe it is the basics of a fighting game. Which include the knowledge of anti airing, whiff punishing, patience, not jumping like a idiot, and how to punish. Not many will agree, but I guarantee there will not be 1 unified response.

 

[Shark Tank]

I tried to looked up a definition for fighting game fundamentals and this is the closest thing I found:

Where'd you get that?

 

[Briggs8417]

Lies. Grundy players have great fundamentals



I mean I have my own definition of it, and I feel like Bane players actually have good fundamentals, but at the same time I see people saying that King isn't fundamentally good because he counter-picks, or that Chris G is good because he easily becomes skilled at everything he touches.

Its fair to ask where people think the borders end.

Nah yer right. People saying king doesnt have fundamentals is stupid, he does along with a really great understanding of both the mk9 and igau metas. Chris G only does so well starting off at games because he has a great understanding of fundamentals as well, such as knowing good spacing along with understanding of how his normals work. Honestly fundamentals are just the tools that you learn to use that you should be able to come into a fighting game with a blank slate and be able to apply.

 

[SZSR]

Where'd you get that?

A post on Shoryuken:
http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/7491760/#Comment_7491760

But I looked it up on Sonichurricane.com, Sirlin.net, even if Justin Wong interviews explain it, no avail.

It's never occurred to anyone to actually define fundamentals.

 

[Doombawkz]

So a lot of people say its mastery of the basics. Is that really all it is? Like knowing how to do a little bit of everything only takes you so far imo.
It has to be more than just that, since not every game has the same underlying mechanics. Likewise, theres the issue of dealing with every other character...

I think you can't just get by with knowing what works in every game. I think fundamentals is having an intimate knowledge of the game you are playing, and how you fit into the game as a whole depending on your character. In fact, I would say basics make up maybe 20% of the total value of what "fundamentals" are, with the other 80% being specializing in certain things pertaining to your character.

We don't think Tom Brady is remarkable because he can do a little bit of everything, its the fact that he can control space with his clones in a way no one else can that makes him better overall. Sure the basics are there, but when you fight someone using only the basics, and someone who has a better handle on the game itself in a deeper way, I can't see myself saying the basics guy is the fundamentally better player.

 

[TotteryManx]

Nah yer right. People saying king doesnt have fundamentals is stupid, he does along with a really great understanding of both the mk9 and igau metas. Chris G only does so well starting off at games because he has a great understanding of fundamentals as well, such as knowing good spacing along with understanding of how his normals work. Honestly fundamentals are just the tools that you learn to use that you should be able to come into a fighting game with a blank slate and be able to apply.

Exactly. People hate on Chris G, but the reason he does well early on is due to his reactions and fundamentals. He was on point jumping backwards in the air to knock his opponents down. Rarely seen him fail at that. That coupled with his cheesy combos/ punishes is why he does well and I bet he does the same with MKX.

 

[Tony at Home]

People tend to use it more as a buzzword.

Along with "footsies".

And like "footsies" its not just overused as a hollow buzzword, but the meaning has become so Street Fighter centric that it's often misused as a general descriptor term for "how similarly the game plays to Street Fighter"

 

[PPJ]

An example of this would be Shaquille o'neal. He isn't a great shooter or handler ( for his size he's great but universally no) but he just powers his way and is one of the most dominant players in history. It's kind of like doomsday players just power their way in without having space control or footsies or forced to play really complicated neutrals. They just power in and dunk it.

not the best analogy

What are fundamentals?

something you probably don't have

 

[RunwayMafia]

Courage.

 

[Doombawkz]

something you probably don't have

You're not wrong, but all the same. Your input is valued if you have a personal definition for it.

 

[Scott The Scot]

Ah! I knew this question would pop up eventually and I have for quite a while. So in preperation for this question, or other questions like this that I once asked myself about a year ago when I started playing fighting games, I have compiled a notepad document with a lot of useful things I've read online to help me on my FGC journey. I suppose you could say it's sort of a 'Fighting Game Players Bible' that I'm working on. I quote important things that I fthink to be of good use, helpful way to kind of understand something comlex. Anyway, I had this in the document:

"I think a good way to determine what's involved in fundamentals is to look for things that are needed to be good in any fighting game. 2D or 3D. Weapons based or not. Realistic or not. Projectiles or not. Certain abilities will apply no matter what kind of fighting game you're playing."

You could probably paste a few words with quotation marks into google and find out where I got this from but I don't care, it doesn't matter to me. I just know it helped me and hopefully it'll help someone else. What I quoted should build upon what has already been said in this thread

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Fundamentals is the ability of a top player to jump constantly and not get anti aired.

 

[TotteryManx]

So a lot of people say its mastery of the basics. Is that really all it is? Like knowing how to do a little bit of everything only takes you so far imo.
It has to be more than just that, since not every game has the same underlying mechanics. Likewise, theres the issue of dealing with every other character...

I think you can't just get by with knowing what works in every game. I think fundamentals is having an intimate knowledge of the game you are playing, and how you fit into the game as a whole depending on your character. In fact, I would say basics make up maybe 20% of the total value of what "fundamentals" are, with the other 80% being specializing in certain things pertaining to your character.

We don't think Tom Brady is remarkable because he can do a little bit of everything, its the fact that he can control space with his clones in a way no one else can that makes him better overall. Sure the basics are there, but when you fight someone using only the basics, and someone who has a better handle on the game itself in a deeper way, I can't see myself saying the basics guy is the fundamentally better player.

Its something that can be carried over to every game. Its more so about making smart decisions you learn about with time. I highly doubt you jump a lot for no reason right? But im willing to bet the first time you played you werent so shy about pressing them buttons. Also, anti airs, whiff punishing, and patience/defense is a part of every fighting game. Its why people like Justin Wong and Chris G do well in these games early on. They typically do not fall off until match ups are developed along with the meta.

 

[Briggs8417]

@Doombawkz that's just where practicing the particular game you want to play comes in. There is a difference between having solid fighting game fundamentals and being able to play a specific game well still. You're right understanding the basics will only take you to a certain point, but it will certainly help greatly in helping you understand exactly how specific games work and should be played. You pick up a new game and want to learn how to play, let's say street fighter for fun. You start to ask basic questions first:

1) How do I move around to ensure I can get hits?

2)What buttons are best used in order to ensure I hit the opponent?

3)Where do I need to be to ensure I can get these buttons out safely?

Etc.

Hope this wasn't too long. I honestly would've probably said waaay more if I wasn't on my phone. I would not mind talking about this stuff because discussion like this and helping people understand is one of the best ways to start improvement followed by implementing it.