How Balanced is Injustice really?

[Danger317]

I don't think I've seen a competitive fighting game where the Winner is a different char damn never every time. Its been MMH, Zod, Aquaman, Superman, Black Adam, Batman, Flash, Catwoman, Shazam, Batgirl, GL, Bane, Doomsday, Deathstroke, Green Arrow, Scorpion, and probably some more I just can't think of. Pretty much every char in the Injustice roster has been in Top8. That is the epi-tome of balance if you ask me. The player wins in Injustice, not the character.

Heres some food for thought. We are not all created equally. Some people are just better than you at certain things, and sometimes everything. So it's not a bad thing to have 2-3 chars that are just a tier above that rest. They are exceptional picks, because they are the complete package. BUT they aren't unbeatable in IGAU. So, if you play well you can win. You might just have a harder time with Joker beating a MMH or Zod than you will Aquaman.

 

[JDM]

Yea cause I knew the match up like the back of my hand.

Shazam is believed to be bottom five cause everyone in this community aren't actual fighting game players and started with MK so they have a hard time determining if a character is actually good. Also Shazam's buffs helped him a lot as far as blowing up people for jumping back and he already had silly okizeme nonsense but now that the command grab whiff is hella fast in recovery it is even harder to punish him. When he knocks a char down they pretty much can't wake up cause of his options.

On top of that Digit is really good so he can bring out the best of shazam since hes been playing him day one anyway.

Doesn't sound like a bottom 5 char to me. He loses to more common tournament chars like Zod, Sinestro etc but they obviously weren't at texas showdown.

Anyway. This game is not balanced.

Also if I won Texas Showdown would it still be called a major? Or would people say it was just a regional with Chris G and Perfect Legend?

I think every character in this game is viable besides maybe one or two characters. Sounds balanced enough to me.

 

[THTB]

How balanced is Injustice?

Who cares?

 

[Fred Marvel]

No Its because I dont have time for idiots and trolls and I think you're one of the worst posters ive ever seen who will never matter when it comes to GL so why the hell should i waste time

aww thats adorable, my new mission is to troll you and only you <3

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

aww thats adorable, my new mission is to troll you and only you <3

Sad life

Enjoy it

 

[Fred Marvel]

Sad life

Enjoy it

im your biggest fan

 

[LanceMonsoon]

Injustice is balanced enough to be enjoyable to watch/play IMO. That's good enough for me.

 

[Big Pampering]

you guys are obsessed with balance to begin with

 

[Maasik]

you guys are obsessed with balance to begin with

If balance and viability go hand in hand I don't believe it's a bad thing. A roster where all characters are viable in tournament would be awesome. (I'd say we're pretty damn close.) Although, expecting 5-5's across the board is unrealistic and maybe even a little bland IMO.

 

[Peckapowa]

One of the most balanced fighters out easily. Shazam who is believed to be bottom five won a major tournament. Just because there are top tiers doesn't mean this game's balance should be called into question. There are top tiers in every game that have to work less to win.

maybe its not game balance it people sucking at the shazam matchup or getting outplayed, the bottom line is, shazam has no viable method of approaching a lot of characters, if you play mostly mistake free, he doesn't get anywhere, he's only good on knockdown and on wakeup. People also seem to struggle to punish his teleport and deal with 22 pressure when its backdashable and interruptable by reversal special unless he does headbutt.


all you have to do vs the character is wait, and react, and variate the pacing of your projectile game

 

[Peckapowa]

As good as MMH is, the character is pretty hard to use to max out his capabilities, and to take advantage of his tool set you need to make extremely good reads. The character is no where near broken, and honestly doesn't really have anything that is necessarily cheap in a game that almost everyone has cheap options. His 50/50s are within the realm of reaction, he has tricky set ups in the corner but he doesn't have broken damage like many others either. Also, like others have pointed out, many players still over respect him in many regards, especially when he doesn't have meter, and this just comes from lack of match up experience against him.

And the argument being made that he isn't being represented in enough areas to gather the match up knowledge to make him more dominant could also go the other way as well; limited representation can also prevent people from learning the weaknesses/counters to the character.

Also the limited number of people playing the character could also be a testament to how difficult the character is to play to be able to make his winning match ups winning or even, even; not everyone can just pick up the character and be a god without putting in a considerable time or we'd be seeing more MMH dominance.

I'm not disputing that fact that MMH is among the very top characters in this game, but when I lose to him I at least feel I was outplayed considering he has to open you up honestly, whether that be by making the right reads or his opponent not respecting his numerous options, when there are other tippy, top tiers that also do considerably well against the greater majority of the cast with very limited bad match ups that have cheap tool sets such as Batgirl that only need to touch you once to win a round, or Zod that can trait up and throw interactibles at you for free(not to say Zod is nearly as cheap as Batgirl, because he isn't in my opinion at least).

I don't know the numbers for his match ups but 6-4's are far from unwinnable so if the issue is that he just has an abundance of 6-4's and 5-5's with a few 7-3's and no losing match ups, I don't see him as the potential boogeyman that many are making him out to be. He's definitely a scary character to play against, being too well rounded, but no where near broken.

i respect the fact that he takes skill, as now a fully debout member of the church of martian christhunter (zod is the priest of my church), however i feel very strongly that martian might be as broken as kabal. I also think you need a very smart player to untap his potential with a solid fundamental base and more importantly both strong at zoning and rushdown. unlike other characters like batgirl and doomsday, actually batgirl can be a wicked good run-away sllow the game down type character

However the fact of the matter is:
1.He's ridiculously good on knockdown and waking up, he has so many fuckng options once he phase charges you tha the will open you up, especially with trait , he has cross up tp setups off the yin yang,
2. he has a normal in trait that is over head anti-airs multi-hit and hit/block confirmable to free pressure.
He also always has meter to extend his pressure.
3. His corner game is ridiculous, and builds shitloads of meter when he does it and chip. and his pressure is excellent.
4.his standing 3 is essentially kenshi's shoulder when he is in trait, but if they block it, you can get free pressure or they can't reach you anyways.
5. He can't be zoned.
6.His zoning is excellent, he can controls 2-3 points on the screen at once and can hitconfirm his zooning. Also his zoning does good chip and build sshitloads of meter. Not to mention he can stall if he needs to. And can switch back to rushdown when he feels like it. A goo dmartian makes it so that by the time you do get past his zoning he is going to have trait again, and you have to eat pressure for days, if you aren't patient vs martians zoning he will snowball the shit out of you
7.you can't throw interactables at him, and he has a multitude of ways to either get free interactable damage or take advantage of them.
8. along with his highly effective pressure, he has an air dash and also a meter burn airdash in case he feels breaking your block
9. he always will have meter
10. His back 3 is multi-hit so its busts al armor and it has good startup and reach
11. he has proximity mines
12. he can sandwich you between orbs and spread mayonaisse on your thighs
13. free interactables
14. green
15.even his back dash is effective

 

[Perfect Legend]

I think it only appears balanced cause there is more to the game than Mortal Kombat. Also Injustice was patched far more than Mortal Kombat as well.

 

[Zatoichi]

To answer the question, yes, Injustice is balanced for the most part save for a few of the characters (Like 4 or 5) that do still need a few tweaks.

 

[derOeler]

People love this game.
But their little hearts cannot accept that there is a big unpatched and unfair flaw.
They fear the thought of another kabalish dominance - so they rather hype up and praise the skill of players who play mmh (Jupiter) than realize how ungodly, freakin, overwhelmingly overpowered, unbalanced, broken and inevitably nerf-needing this freak of a character really is.

Its Cyrax and Kabal all over again.
They need it, right?


-Yes, Jupiter is a great player.
-Yes, mmh doesn´t dominate as of yet.
-Yes, I just dont know.
-Yes, everyone has their dirt.
-Yes,.....bg, zod...bla


NO! You just dont want to realize or admit it..


No salt, just beeing real.
ty

 

[TheSpore]

lmfao!!! Pig just went up on my "Favorite posters of TYM" list. He was already top 5 too. Nerf pls.

I'm working on the patch, but Pig's line of code may have to be re-written altogether, looks like it might take the selling of a DLC pack altogether to balance the Pig and Fred MU!!!!

 

[TheSpore]

Wait, why is Jupiter's 2nd Major win a sign Injustice is unbalanced?

The logic of the think that may have here is A commonly used character wins a major = That Character is Broke and the player is just being lame, if its an oddball character it comes to = Wow there opponent didn't know the MU because no one really uses said character. Am I right or am I wrong?

 

[Danger317]

im your biggest fan

no you're not. i am

 

[fr stack]

jesus christ if you're all so worried about martian just counterpick , doomsday , out martian your opponent , flash ? , catwoman .
did anyone watch the finals ? jupiters mmh literally outplayed sonic fox , never mind match ups every yolo teleport was scouted wake up whatevers were scouted

 

[Big Pampering]

If balance and viability go hand in hand I don't believe it's a bad thing. A roster where all characters are viable in tournament would be awesome. (I'd say we're pretty damn close.) Although, expecting 5-5's across the board is unrealistic and maybe even a little bland IMO.

people are asking for the impossible. Balance is a great thing, but the people will still be talking about balance issues if all they have to do is play a couple 4-6 matches. The problem is that people will act like they figured the whole game out in a couple of months and now you have Bane murdering people with those buffs and a shitty scorpion. People will now say that Mmh is dominating everything, but these prepatch top tiers could go toe to toe with mmh but they already got nerfed.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

This is probably the MOST MU based fighting game created.
Whether you consider that balance or not is up to you.

It makes tournaments way more entertaining though, that is for sure.

 

[G4S KT]

Who cares?

If you like a game, you have to play it for how it is.

Overall balance discussions are a massive waste of time.

You'd all be better off using your time discussing how to approach your characters' bad match ups. (or spending time learning a character that has few / none)

 

[SEV]

i respect the fact that he takes skill, as now a fully debout member of the church of martian christhunter (zod is the priest of my church), however i feel very strongly that martian might be as broken as kabal. I also think you need a very smart player to untap his potential with a solid fundamental base and more importantly both strong at zoning and rushdown. unlike other characters like batgirl and doomsday, actually batgirl can be a wicked good run-away sllow the game down type character

However the fact of the matter is:
1.He's ridiculously good on knockdown and waking up, he has so many fuckng options once he phase charges you tha the will open you up, especially with trait , he has cross up tp setups off the yin yang,
2. he has a normal in trait that is over head anti-airs multi-hit and hit/block confirmable to free pressure.
He also always has meter to extend his pressure.
3. His corner game is ridiculous, and builds shitloads of meter when he does it and chip. and his pressure is excellent.
4.his standing 3 is essentially kenshi's shoulder when he is in trait, but if they block it, you can get free pressure or they can't reach you anyways.
5. He can't be zoned.
6.His zoning is excellent, he can controls 2-3 points on the screen at once and can hitconfirm his zooning. Also his zoning does good chip and build sshitloads of meter. Not to mention he can stall if he needs to. And can switch back to rushdown when he feels like it. A goo dmartian makes it so that by the time you do get past his zoning he is going to have trait again, and you have to eat pressure for days, if you aren't patient vs martians zoning he will snowball the shit out of you
7.you can't throw interactables at him, and he has a multitude of ways to either get free interactable damage or take advantage of them.
8. along with his highly effective pressure, he has an air dash and also a meter burn airdash in case he feels breaking your block
9. he always will have meter
10. His back 3 is multi-hit so its busts al armor and it has good startup and reach
11. he has proximity mines
12. he can sandwich you between orbs and spread mayonaisse on your thighs
13. free interactables
14. green
15.even his back dash is effective

His options are ridiculous at times but I don't think you you gave a part in your point six enough credence which is patience against him in general. So long as you're patient he has nothing in the neutral game that is overtly difficult to block. Sure he can keep you out for days, but he won't be able to keep you out forever. We just saw how dominant MMH is when you get impatient at CW. The games where Sonic Fox was actually playing patiently he was doing well until he felt a necessary compulsion to go yolo. The situatuion is no different than from playing other characters; if you do something unsafe in a particular match, unique to said match up, you have the possibility of being punished. Trickiest thing he has in the neutral game is an air dash cross up into a reactible 50/50, all of his good stuff comes after he's already opened you up.

Maybe I view him this way because I play a character that goes even with him and maybe it's because I normally have to play patient against any character due to my character's design. Martian has a great range of tools and versatility but at the end of the day he's extremely hard to use to make him seem broke, very read dependent, and if he only 6-4's your character I don't see how he can truly be that much of an issue considering it is widely accepted that 6-4's are far from unwinnable.

I won't deny that the character, possibly along with a few others, could use a few touches to make them more balanced/fair, but who's to say that the character won't become more manageable in time instead of becoming more dominant. The game is still young and he's one of the newest characters. He's clearly a front runner, but it doesn't necessarily mean he will continue to become more ridiculous. And there's a lot of talk bashing people in the other Zod thread for claiming he's over powered without taking him to the lab. How many people have yet to do the same with MMH?

I agree that he's in a class of his own, but broke? Nah, we're not talking about Batgirl.

 

[coolwhip]

Just play the fucking game. It's that time of the month when TYM becomes so unbearable that even I no longer have any desire to engage in arguments. That says a lot.

 

[SaltShaker]

What do some of you guys want? For more time to pass as more MMH mains master the character, MU's become more lopsided, more tourneys are dominated at higher rates, more players drop their mains for Martian, and a year from now its fully established just how far and high above the rest he is? Or would you rather have tweaks to ONE character that would help balance out the entire game a little more?

I just don't see what can come of "not saying anything and letting the game be". It needs to be said because it is a fact, and hopefully fixed so the game will be more balanced. Batman's string, Superman's string, Scorpion's teleport, there were things that clearly needed to be fixed for the sake of the games future and balance. Imagine how much damage Sagat in vanilla SF4 or Steve in Tekken 5 would've done in the future if "no one complained because the game is balanced". Just imagine what it would've been like 4, 6, 8 months later had they never been nerfed.

Something you guys are also not understanding is that if MMH was a Day 1 release character HE WOULD ABSOLUTELY HAVE BEEN NERFED BY THE 1ST PATCH. Just because people are saying it now doesn't make it any less accurate a complaint.

And for the record, Aquaman, Zod, Batgirl, whoever, are FINE. They are top tier characters but they are just that, top tier characters. Hell I personally hate fighting Aquaman but I respect it because there will always be tough characters to fight and tiers amongst them.

But he is different, completely on another level, and MMH needs to be toned down and is the only character that needs to be. This is just an undeniable fact at this point that needs to seriously be addressed, and now.

 

[arde5643]

@SaltShaker, everyone would love to have another minor balance patch added to remove the nerfs to Joker/Lex and remove the stupidity of OH tele.
But who's going to fund it? WB and NRS are most likely done with patches.
And even if NRS can do hotfixes, it won't solve the current issues now since hotfixes are very limited and universal to all characters.

Look at it this way, right now we don't have the issue of UMvC3 where the game's meta/evolution is dead because there are no more patches or updates to the game, where now only 6-8 characters can actually be used in high level play. And by high level play, I'm talking about all the way from top 32 to top 8.

Almost a year since the patch, we haven't at all come close to anything where only very few characters can be in top 8 - in fact, as the metagame progresses, we keep on seeing more diverse characters in the mix.
This game is actually even more balanced than Street Fighter 4, where respectively only specific few characters can make it out in top 16. As it is now, MMH hasn't even reached a tenth of the level of Cammy's dominance in the meta game - perhaps in the future it will, but as SF4 has shown, even with such an OP character like Cammy, the game still perseveres.