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Killer Instinct: The Game That Is Hated For The Wrong Reasons

BanTheTesters

“My AGENT is tougher than you...”
Moderator
I got to commentate/see the game first had a few weeks back at our tourney (i got to touch an xbox one controller, was cool) and the game looked alright, very flashes..seems like a lot of "spectral" which was nice to look at. At lot of the early review did state that the game was very "unfinished" though.

I can say that there were quite a few people who showed up for the tourney, and i will say that the soundtrack was very cool (the "crash site" stage background has a hype song)...but i heard talks that the "scene" was already dead...

Would be willing to give the game a shot if it comes to PC but not getting an xbox one for it...kind of expensive and i still play 360 a while lot...

I do like the whole "this character is free for X amount of time, pick up while it last" deal they do, tis really cool.

Edit: And no TJ Combo though..? :(
 
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Fromundaman

I write too much.
I don't dislike KI itself; the game is pretty fun from the little I played of it and the mechanics seem rather solid.

HOWEVER, it does have a gigantic flaw: The way they released this game was terrible.
Allow me to explain...

KI is a launch title for the most expensive console generation to date. In essence, to play KI3 you first have to buy a $500 console. After that you have to spend between $5 and $40.00 on the game. Then if you're like me and prefer to play fighting games on a stick, you need to buy a $200 arcade stick that works on the XBONE. In essence, if I wanted to play KI competitively, I would need to first spend over $700, and for someone like me who has not seen anything else on XBONE that would warrant me buying one, that is not worth the price.



This unfortunately leads to a bigger problem: I am not alone.
My locals tend to get between 15-20 people for Injustice, 30-50 for Capcom games, roughly 30-ish for Tekken and about 10-20 for Vampire Savior (Arcade Legacy is pretty much the only place around that still plays that game I think, but we're damn good at it.).
When the Arcade got a XBONE and a full copy of Killer Instinct, we were all messing with it. When we tried to hold a tournament for it, 6 people entered. Of those 6, 4 of us did not own the game and only entered because the two guys that did own the game wanted us to get into it and for a dollar or two we thought why not?

Now I'd say total, we had close to 40 people who enjoyed the game, but it didn't matter since only two people went out and bought an XBONE for it and only one bought the arcade stick too.
I imagine it's the more or less the same all over the country, and that is going to severely hurt the game. It will be much harder to jump into the game after the metagame has already been established.



This, combined with the pay-as-we-make-it model also brings about another problem:
You only get one chance at a first impression, and the FGC tends not to be very forgiving, especially if a new game comes out before your game gets it's shit together.

Look at games like Skullgirls and SFxT. I keep hearing that since getting patched those games are great, but who cares other than the 5 people still playing those games? Those games died out since they had some issues and/or a lack of content and by the time they had fixed that, something new had come out.
To a certain extent Injustice had this problem as well. While we did manage to keep a strong following due to the fact this game was pretty solid when it was released, it did have some fairly blatant balance issues at launch and it got booed the first time it appeared on the world stage.
I can't speak for all regions, but I know locally we lost a fair number of good players (Including a guy who was bodying all of us for free with Lex for the first month or so!) due to issues that have since been addressed with the patches, but it's too late. Once a player moves to another game, it's usually over.

Unfortunately, with how they are doing KI, this is almost guaranteed to happen to it too.




So yeah, the issue with KI isn't the game itself; the game is solid. The problem is that the game was sold as an unfinished product and tried to emulate the MOBA style of play without paying attention to how long it took for that format to work or that the cost of the game is effectively over $700.
If a new fighting game comes out for any console before the game gets content AND the XBONE gets a massive price drop AND cheaper arcade sticks appear for the XBONE, then it is almost guaranteed to die.





And now for a bonus history lesson and stopping a protest before it begins:

Warning: Feel free to skip this if you don't care about the comparison between the "F2P, pay to unlock content" KI is doing and the one MOBAs have been employing.

"But Fromundaman" you might say, "MOBAs have proven that the pay-for-content-as-we-release-it format works!".
That is true, but let's look at MOBA's origins really fast shall we? (This is based on my recollection and I didn't play the DOTA offshoot like Outlands maps and such, so will focus on Allstars and it's direct predecessors).

While Tides of Blood was the first MOBA type game (More on that in a minute), DOTA is the one that created a market for MOBAs in the first place.

DOTA was a custom game on a widely popular game on a platform that everyone already owned. This means that if you'd bought Warcraft 3: The Frozen Throne, you got DOTA for free. In this case it would be kind of like getting KI3 for free when you bought Injustice on current gen consoles.
Secondly, when DOTA came out, it already had more content (Heroes) than it's closest competitor Tides of Blood. Now while Tides of Blood introduced the idea of the traditional trilane MOBAs, it was limited to I believe it was 16-20 heroes total by the end of it's life. It was however rather popular for a custom map and built on the foundations Aeons of Strife had laid before it, but had a unique spin on it that was vastly more fun and strategic.
By contrast, I believe DOTA had somewhere between 20 and 30 heroes at launch (I could be wrong; this is based on memory) although several of them were based on or exact clones of existing Warcraft 3 heroes (While they have changed, some more than others, since that time, examples of this would be Medusa, Pandaren Brewmaster, Omniknight, Beastmaster, Abbadon, Sven, etc). The fact it had more content than other competitors though and the changes to some of the mechanics Tides of Blood had made it extremely popular.
I could be wrong but I think DOTA was also the 1st MOBA to use recipes.

Basically my point is that DOTA made a VERY strong first impression when it was first released in 2004, and it continues to get updated to this day (Both DOTA 1 and 2).

I am going to skip Heroes of Newerth since that game has become pretty much irrelevant now.

In 2009, League of Legends appeared. This game made sure to advertise the fact that several of the original creators of DOTA Allstars were on their creative team and were building an entire new engine to go beyond the limitations of Warcraft 3's modding tools.
I believe they also started with a respectable amount of heroes, copying a few of DOTAs to add content (Could be wrong about this since I didn't play LoL, but it is what HoN did and it worked.). Since this was essentially marketing a "new" Dota-like game to the general public using DOTA's influence at the time with a promise of improving it now that they had the tools to do so, it exploded. The rest is history, but when LoL launched, it was already a complete game that just added on content and features as it went and most importantly, it had next to no competition since DOTA required you to own a copy (Or CD Key...) of WC3: The Frozen Throne.


On a side note, when DOTA 2 hit steam, it was already a complete game despite being labeled as a "beta", and cost $30 for everything, including the "early access". It still had a good number of the original DOTA heroes and had a lot of more convenient features, like a matchmaking system and the ability to find and watch matches from your game menu, all of which the original DOTA didn't have. It basically made itself the only relevant competitor to LoL, but despite DOTA's name and influence, LoL made such a strong first impression that the game it marketed itself as being based on has become the less popular of the two.


Now that you know all of this, let's compare it to KI3.

-KI3 has less content than ALL of it's competition. Even Skullgirls has more characters at the moment.
-KI is on a less convenient and more expensive platform, the very thing that made DOTA fall to LoL, except in this case instead of needing to buy a $20-$50 game (Depending on when you bought it), you need to buy a $500 console, and if you play a certain way you have to tack on another $200.
-MOBAs came about based on years of credibility built by DOTA leagues and such and someone finally going "Oh shit, people are willing to pay Blizzard to pay a game we made. We should make money off of this instead!". KI3 came about based on the Nostalgia factor of a popular game that has been dead for well over a decade and the need to sell next gen consoles.
To put this into context, MOBAs built a new engine to profit off of the immense demand for a game/genre. KI was built to try and create demand for a new console.







.... Damn I put more time into this than it really warranted...
 

ShadowBeatz

Dropper of Bass and Bombs
War and Peace
Thank you for that post. I will say, that even after all of the up-playing I do on behalf of KI, I do understand how incredibly expensive it is to play, all things considered, and I do think it's a shame that it's not accessible to a lot of people. You're right, currently it is on the path to becoming a niche game rather than a staple, but that's what I'm speaking out against in this thread. I know I'm only one voice (and not a very known voice in this community at that), but this game has the potential to be something really great, and I don't want to see it die.

The reason a game dies is because the community gives up on it. This game is going to take a while to be "complete" in a lot of peoples' eyes, just because of the nature of its release and Microsoft wanting it to be a release title. I just don't want people giving up on it after two months because of it's incomplete roster. But again, I'm only one voice :(
 

cR WoundCowboy

WoundCowbae <3
Okay, this is something that has REALLY bothered me for the past two months and I need to vent, damn it.

Since the Xbox One dropped, I have been playing a ton of Killer Instinct. I think it is a solid fighting game that relies on reads and mind games. The gameplay is smooth, the netcode is really good (I will grant to all of the haters that it has gotten worse since that patch, but it's still good), and it features a combo system that, in my mind, is the best out of any fighting game. But you would never know it, because all of the talk going on about Killer Instinct is about its "lack of content." Give me a break.

I've said this 100 times in 100 different threads, but this game was ADVERTISED as a "platform for content to be released on." I'm sorry, but anyone who is bitching that they spent $500 for a "demo" is a fucking ass hat. You don't get to rank up and track your stats in a demo. You knew exactly what you were getting when you bought the Xbox One. You knew that there weren't going to be many games, and you knew that KI wasn't going to have a boatload of content upon its release. And yet you STILL got the One, you still got KI, and now you're surprised that this game doesn't offer a lot content wise, and so you reciprocate with talking trash on DH and it's game. Wat?

Yes, it's true, right now this game doesn't have a lot of content, but you know what? When playing MK/IGAU, all the majority of the people bitching about KI did was go to online or versus mode to hone their skills with their main and whatever 3 or 4 secondaries they might have had, if they even had that much. Nobody was raving about Arcade/Battles and I'm pretty sure that while the Challenge Tower/STAR Labs were fun, nobody would have been bitching about a "lack of content" if they were never in their respective games. Guess what? This game's got online, versus mode, and enough characters to have a main and 5 secondaries. How about that?

This is why I think KI is getting so much hate for the wrong reasons. It is a GREAT fighting game, and that's not really all opinion either. I have not seen any reasons posted that would contradict that statement. No one is bitching about the fighting engine, balance or gameplay mechanics (aside for one salty status update from yours truly, but I digress). You'd think TYM would love this game! But no. "6 characters bro". People are putting quantity over quality, and because of that, they aren't even giving this gem a chance.

I'm posting this because I want this game to thrive. I understand not everyone is going to like it and I'm not asking everyone to. I'm just saying, I don't see "lack of content" as a good reason to not play, especially when we're getting 2 more characters, lobbies, and hell even a Story Mode buy the end of March, along with a Season 2 that was confirmed. We will get the content, you just have to be patient. If you don't like the combo system or anything about the game's core, that's one thing, (even though I have not heard that once from anyone who has played the game). If not, get online and play me in a set and I dare you to tell me the game isn't fun as hell to play :)
I don't like the combo system :) I might play more once Spinal is released but idk, the game just doesn't really do anything for me.
 

Fromundaman

I write too much.
Thank you for that post. I will say, that even after all of the up-playing I do on behalf of KI, I do understand how incredibly expensive it is to play, all things considered, and I do think it's a shame that it's not accessible to a lot of people. You're right, currently it is on the path to becoming a niche game rather than a staple, but that's what I'm speaking out against in this thread. I know I'm only one voice (and not a very known voice in this community at that), but this game has the potential to be something really great, and I don't want to see it die.

The reason a game dies is because the community gives up on it. This game is going to take a while to be "complete" in a lot of peoples' eyes, just because of the nature of its release and Microsoft wanting it to be a release title. I just don't want people giving up on it after two months because of it's incomplete roster. But again, I'm only one voice :(
True, but you're fighting an uphill battle. It's hard not to "give up" on a game you can't afford to play in the first place.

If this game dies, it's not the community's fault so much as Microsoft's for using it as a stunt to sell consoles.
 
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ProudDisciple

Average at Best
I personally grew up playing KI and KI2 in the arcades and continued to play them once they were released on consoles. For me regardless of what was to be released with the reimagining of KI would be a day one purchase, but understand it wouldn't be the case for everyone.

Though I don't feel the same I can understand the lack of appeal for some and see it almost everyday in many people that watch me play. They will solely base there opinion of the game on whether or not something they're familiar with is currently present within the game.

EX: Person walks up and says, " Killer Instinct, man I remember this. That boxer guy, uhhhh TJ Combo man he was awesome, do you use him?"
I have to reply, "Well he isn't in the game currently but......"

6 out of 10 people that approach me mention something that isn't currently in the game and are from their first impression put off to even stick around and talk about it. Maybe 2 people will ask about something and regardless of it being present or not think the game looks awesome and 2 people will actually be interested in playing.

Seems petty that just because a ladder with Gargos and/or Eyedol isn't present Billy Bob won't wanna play but who am I to say otherwise.
 

Greenk4

"I'm so good at this game" said me never (yet)
I really love KI, always have and always will but right now as much as I want to try it out the XB1 has nothing I want to get me to buy it PLUS getting a stick for it and then waiting for characters I want to see in the game (Pretty much everyone who died according to the 1st game's story).

But the game has some great features: The Dojo mode is fantastic, I do enjoy the customization options and the Netcode is incredible (Just to name a few). I also like the new designs for some characters like Thunder going from a mohawk indian to T.Hawk for example lol Honestly the ONLY one I hate on is Saberwulf. (He looks dopey to me.) The combo system and all these breakers and counters is pretty sick. If only it was also on PS4 (I don't expect it to have been on 360/PS3 etc etc but that's just me.) and just more accessible for people to play it, I know me and a bunch of friends are fiending the game but we can't put out that much money.

As for content, yeah this game is pretty barebones but I have faith in the game still, plus I feel like most people who got this didn't even bother with anything but Online, Dojo and the KI Store (Just me thinking here). I'm hoping they pretty much bring everyone from KI1 and 2 in the game and throw in some new characters and maybe even a new boss (Put Eagle in definitely though!)

Also on a side note (For those who knows KI Story): does anyone know if this is an actual sequel or some kind of strange reboot in terms of story? I never did understand what they planned to do with that and if things were explained from the mouths of the developers. (Do Jago and Orchid know they're siblings and if Jago finds out that Gargos is the Tiger Spirit?)

[Rant was a bit all over the place but that's how I feel]
 

Benzo

Vic Stone
This problem is this. KI came out in 94'. KI 2 came out in 96'. I'm 35 years old so I was there when the machine was plugged in. They waited too long to put this game out....times are different, different generation of fighting gamers. This game probably would have worked in the late 90's and early 2000's...
BTW how in the hell do you expect an "exclusive" fighter to prosper? That alone killed it before it even had a chance.
 

DevilMaySpy

Mama's Little Bumgorf
I just feel like it's going to be a too little too late thing like SF X T. By the time all of the content is released, most people will have dropped this game. I mean, entrants aren't that great as is, so it really can't afford to have a downward spiral. I think the reaction to Spinal will be a strong indicator on the game's future.
 

Hellbringer

1 2 3 drink
Killer instinct is the fighter i always wanted. I dont care if it only has 6 characters so far, i know there are more characters coming and im far from bored from the few characters, just because the game is so deep with all the mindgames and mechanics, i just can't stop playing it even if i play 200 matches in a row vs orchid.
But yeah this is TYM, where everyone likes to hate on the fighters they dont play or are not interested in. Where trolls like au_digimon get banned but then get unbanned so they can make hate posts all over again like he always does. Its sad that this community still hasn't learned yet and still has the same attitude as bungie.net
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Killer instinct is the fighter i always wanted. I dont care if it only has 6 characters so far, i know there are more characters coming and im far from bored from the few characters, just because the game is so deep with all the mindgames and mechanics, i just can't stop playing it even if i play 200 matches in a row vs orchid.
But yeah this is TYM, where everyone likes to hate on the fighters they dont play or are not interested in. Where trolls like au_digimon get banned but then get unbanned so they can make hate posts all over again like he always does. Its sad that this community still hasn't learned yet and still has the same attitude as bungie.net
Its not the community, not everyone is willing to pay 700$ initually to play KI, and not everyone can do that. I'm not sure if XBONE firmware is available across the globe, but the console exclusivity is definitely killing this game. There is ppl that plays, we know it, but there is also ppl only talk about it in the forums.

Since the Xbox Launch, i haven't seen a single person in Angola who ordered a XBONE or has Killer instinct, and i'm well connected to the gaming market here.

I'm not even worried with a next gen console unless a Competitive MK comes out for them, if i'm in this position where a PS4 here currently cost 800$ how much would you think KI+ Stcik + XBONE would cost?
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
I just got over the initial hype too fast, and now I will probably never give the game a chance (especially since I am not buying Xbone). I do think it would have been a lot better and helped things if they finished more of the game early on. And not sure what you mean about the game being balanced. I just watched a tournament where 90% of the people played Sabrewulf.
 
The argument KI is ass is because it's lacking content, not how it is designed...

Therefore, since it's ass, it has terrible turnouts at majors, people aren't going to be sitting around waiting.

Look what happened to Skullgirls, ya, and that game even had more characters and was on current gen consoles, waiting for patches and characters killed that game too.
 
I just got over the initial hype too fast, and now I will probably never give the game a chance (especially since I am not buying Xbone). I do think it would have been a lot better and helped things if they finished more of the game early on. And not sure what you mean about the game being balanced. I just watched a tournament where 90% of the people played Sabrewulf.
What do you mean finished it? The game engine is finished, all of the game mechanics are finished, it's a final product. Adding more characters doesn't finish the game, it just gives you more ways to interact with the engine that's there. And it's WAY too early to tell if the game is really balanced or not. People are coming up with anti-Sabrewulf tech all the time. What about @G4S KT Smith 's tech that I'm sure 99% of KI players don't give a fuck about, which makes sabrewulf way easier to deal with? People still have to learn the game before DH starts throwing balance patches around.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
What do you mean finished it? The game engine is finished, all of the game mechanics are finished, it's a final product. Adding more characters doesn't finish the game, it just gives you more ways to interact with the engine that's there. And it's WAY too early to tell if the game is really balanced or not. People are coming up with anti-Sabrewulf tech all the time. What about @G4S KT Smith 's tech that I'm sure 99% of KI players don't give a fuck about, which makes sabrewulf way easier to deal with? People still have to learn the game before DH starts throwing balance patches around.
In my opinion the game is not finished until all of the characters are released. I am not in favor of getting half or more of the cast via DLC. Would you feel the game was complete if they told you the game engine was finished, but they just do not have any characters released yet and will release them in 8 months? Also, I agree that it is too early to tell if the game is balanced yet. That is really the point I am trying to make when I am saying the game was 90% Sabrewulf at the moment when the OP said the game was balanced. You can't really make the claim of having a balanced game when 1) the most recent tournament is mostly 1 character, and 2) the game is incomplete and missing a substantial portion of the roster.

I am also not saying any character should be balanced. I am just saying there is no way to know if the game is even balanced or not yet.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
In my opinion the game is not finished until all of the characters are released. I am not in favor of getting half or more of the cast via DLC. Would you feel the game was complete if they told you the game engine was finished, but they just do not have any characters released yet and will release them in 8 months? Also, I agree that it is too early to tell if the game is balanced yet. That is really the point I am trying to make when I am saying the game was 90% Sabrewulf at the moment when the OP said the game was balanced. You can't really make the claim of having a balanced game when 1) the most recent tournament is mostly 1 character, and 2) the game is incomplete and missing a substantial portion of the roster.

I am also not saying any character should be balanced. I am just saying there is no way to know if the game is even balanced or not yet.
by "The Game" you mean..... One Tournament
 

G4S KT

Gaming4Satan Founder
What do you mean finished it? The game engine is finished, all of the game mechanics are finished, it's a final product. Adding more characters doesn't finish the game, it just gives you more ways to interact with the engine that's there. And it's WAY too early to tell if the game is really balanced or not. People are coming up with anti-Sabrewulf tech all the time. What about @G4S KT Smith 's tech that I'm sure 99% of KI players don't give a fuck about, which makes sabrewulf way easier to deal with? People still have to learn the game before DH starts throwing balance patches around.
Justin Wong cares about my tech, but no one else lol ;_;

he even talked about it while commentating on the Apex stream.

I still have hope that KI will thrive but I knew immediately that it was going to have huge hurdles; high cost barrier to entry, console exclusivity, and the highly spread out character additions are irresistable fodder for FGC monsters to hate on.

However, there's hope that it will bring in people who have never played fighters because the Dojo mode is so fucking godlike. Dojo shatters the barrier of entry as it relates to difficulty for Fighting Games. It explains all the nuances and best practices of FG mechanics that have been developed over 25 years and I'm not talking about stupid shit like "hit them til their life runs out and you win" that gets into IGN reviews or whatever. The secret mechanics of neutral game, punishes, and other gameplay optimizations that until KI have been mostly kept close to the chest and could only be learned through getting bodied over and over again.

The dude Desdinova who beat me in Grand Finals of the Blu Planet tournament KI is his first fighter (I'm 99% sure I overheard that, anyway) and that's really great. Fuck the hate monsters, bring in new blood.


PS: fuck sabrewulf that character is hilariously cheap and I hope they nerf him into the ground :DOGE