Throw Changes That Could Really Help the Game

[Briggs8417]

I just wanted to make a thread to voice an opinion to some change ideas that I had that I discussed with a few other people on here, and I think it could really help out the gameplay as a whole for the whole cast. I think some fundamental changes to throws would really help not only the game's overall feel, but also fix some issues for specific characters. Here are my suggestions:

1) Be able to throw people out of armor- This would be a great gain for a lot of characters, and is actually a very basic throw property that NRS seems to just leave out of their games and I don't understand why. It honestly helps give everyone an option against armored moves. This should also work with command grabs imo.

2) Make throws faster- I'd say to make throws around 5 frames. This could help out just about every character and would be really good for characters in the game who have slower normals. It helps give characters an option out of pressure situations and gives the opponent something to respect.

Might be a little much, but I do think this last one also hinders throws in this game:
3) Reduce the window to tech throws- As I said this one might not be all that necessary, especially if you make throws faster but as it stands now throws can be consistently teched on reaction

OR

Get rid of the that nonsense where the screen pans out on throws. Thanks for that THTB.

Throws are supposed to be an option that every character should be able to use to get opponents to respect you and in this game they just don't seem to do it. These are just my thoughts on some changes to throws that could really help the game become more than what it is imo. Let me know what you guys think.

Edit: After some discussion I have made a couple of changes to some points as I have been convinced that some changes were a little too much.

 

[THTB]

I just wanted to make a thread to voice an opinion to some change ideas that I had that I discussed with a few other people on here, and I think it could really help out the gameplay as a whole for the whole cast. I think some fundamental changes to throws would really help not only the game's overall feel, but also fix some issues for specific characters. Here are my suggestions:

1) Reduce the range on throws- I think this one would be necessary because the range on throws is a little bit too much and they are deceptive as hell. They are just a bit too much and could use a tone down.

2) Make throws crouchable- Being able to crouch tech would open up so many more options and allow the meta game to grow as a whole imo. If you think the opponent is going to go for a throw you would be able to crouch and punish for full combo and be able to press the advantage, compared to throws working on crouch and you just have to tech the throw and get put at neutral and at a distance. I think there would just be a lot more risk/reward put behind it and it could help the game as a whole.

3) Be able to throw people out of armor- This would be a great gain for a lot of characters, and is actually a very basic throw property that NRS seems to just leave out of their games and I don't understand why. It honestly helps give everyone an option against armored moves. This should also work with command grabs imo.

4) Make throws faster- I'd say to make throws around 5 frames. This could help out just about every character and would be really good for characters in the game who have slower normals. It helps give characters an option out of pressure situations and gives the opponent something to respect.

Might be a little much, but I do think this last one also hinders throws in this game:
5) Reduce the window to tech throws- As I said this one might not be all that necessary, especially if you make throws faster but as it stands now throws can be consistently teched on reaction

Throws are supposed to be an option that every character should be able to use to get opponents to respect you and in this game they just don't seem to do it. These are just my thoughts on some changes to throws that could really help the game become more than what it is imo. Let me know what you guys think.

You want to make throws a respectable option, but reduce the range and make them crouchable...?

I don't get it. The throwing out of armor thing is the only change they probably should see.

 

[Briggs8417]

You want to make throws a respectable option, but reduce the range and make them crouchable...?

I don't get it. The throwing out of armor thing is the only change they probably should see.

They should be respectable not abusable.

 

[CrazySlasher]

I would like the abillity to avoid throws like in MK 2

 

[RM Truth]

I feel like being able to throw someone should be earned. You should have to make them respect it. Not the other way around.

 

[Briggs8417]

I feel like being able to throw someone should be earned. You should have to make them respect it. Not the other way around.

You're correct, but the problem is the way throws work in this game it just isn't possible at all.

 

[RM Truth]

You're correct, but the problem is the way throws work in this game it just isn't possible at all.

It might be character dependent, but I have no problems with getting throws off against even other high level players. Most of the time, I do it when I have frame advantage or if they think I'm going to do something else.

 

[Sajam]

I think throws actually have a nice spot in the game where they are at. I don't think a lot of people are using them as much as they should be. They don't need to be faster, because when you are setting up a throw it isn't about the speed, it's about conditioning them not to hit buttons/wakeup.

Reducing the range/making throws crouchable wouldn't help, since you can already tech them on reaction. Maybe SoCal just likes to scoop people or something, but I really thing throws are pretty good they way they are.

 

[Doombawkz]

Throwing people out of armor = Grundy's nonexistence.
At least with Bane I can abuse the fact that I have non-throwable frames on some of my moves.

 

[Briggs8417]

It might be character dependent, but I have no problems with getting throws off against even other high level players. Most of the time, I do it when I have frame advantage or if they think I'm going to do something else.

It's possible, but with how easy it is to tech throws in this game I don't see it happen a lot in high level play. That's why I think if you reduce the tech window and make them faster (if not both then just make them faster) it would help out a lot more for when wanting people to respect it. However that's also why I would want them to be crouchable, because if they became faster, were harder to tech and broke armor all while hitting on crouch throws would just become the next f23.

THTB to give an actual response to your reply. lol

 

[THTB]

They should be respectable not abusable.

You can't abuse them as is. 10 frames with like 15-frame tech window, and throws do 12% and on just about every character they knock you away. There's no real way to abuse them right now, though you can get people to respect the option. Reducing the range and making them crouchable completely removes any threat there already was, no matter how fast they are. It worked in MK9 because a block button raised your hitbox to allow them to land.

 

[GGA Saucy Jack]

Normally I am all aboard you with Joker homey, but not this time.

Down blocks in this game. Crouch tech makes no sense. The point of a throw is to be another option. If crouching covers lows and throws....then they are useless.

Throw out of armor? Grundy is gone. Doomy is fucked. Etc. No way.

I honestly don't get your post. Your suggestions nerf throws hella, but you want them to be better? I don't get it. Sorry man.

 

[Briggs8417]

I think throws actually have a nice spot in the game where they are at. I don't think a lot of people are using them as much as they should be. They don't need to be faster, because when you are setting up a throw it isn't about the speed, it's about conditioning them not to hit buttons/wakeup.

Reducing the range/making throws crouchable wouldn't help, since you can already tech them on reaction. Maybe SoCal just likes to scoop people or something, but I really thing throws are pretty good they way they are.

Even if you condition people to not hit anything, they can just tech on reaction, which is why I think the tech window should be smaller, but in order to balance that you make them faster and crouchable. Reducing the range I could live without tbh, I've played the game long enough to understand where throw ranges are so I would be able to avoid that.

 

[Sajam]

Even if you condition people to not hit anything, they can just tech on reaction, which is why I think the tech window should be smaller, but in order to balance that you make them faster and crouchable. Reducing the range I could live without tbh, I've played the game long enough to understand where throw ranges are so I would be able to avoid that.

I'd agree with a slightly smaller tech window, or more damage. The one thing about throws is that you can abuse the fact of people trying to tech. Instead of doing walk up throw, you can walk up and do a string or walk up and f3 with a character like GL.

People aren't abusing empty jump throw enough either. Lots of characters have throw setups they can get instead of normal oki, it just depends on the character.

 

[Briggs8417]

You can't abuse them as is. 10 frames with like 15-frame tech window, and throws do 12% and on just about every character they knock you away. There's no real way to abuse them right now, though you can get people to respect the option. Reducing the range and making them crouchable completely removes any threat there already was, no matter how fast they are. It worked in MK9 because a block button raised your hitbox to allow them to land.

You can't abuse them as is because you can't really use them at all unless you are a vortex character. Teching them is just too easy, like I said, I could be down with keeping the range that one isn't huge on my priority list, and I could even deal with maybe being able to throw crouches still, but the tech window has gotta be reduced in some way. It's just too easy imo.
ImNewbieSauce Throws being able to break armor just means more characters have an option to deal with it, DD wouldn't really be effected by it at all except for trait might have to be adjusted to not count as armor or something (which I think should be done anyway to help with the Sueprman MU) , some things with Grundy might have to be worked around though.

 

[THTB]

Even if you condition people to not hit anything, they can just tech on reaction, which is why I think the tech window should be smaller, but in order to balance that you make them faster and crouchable. Reducing the range I could live without tbh, I've played the game long enough to understand where throw ranges are so I would be able to avoid that.

You can already use the late tech window to bait out tech attempts, and by using throws very little, you keep the option wide open. I've seen plenty of throws landed, regardless of the tech window, and I've seen tech baits like crazy.

I think they're fine as is, actually. The only thing I would've done to them is make more throws that aren't going to chuck the opponent halfway across the screen, because I can't think of one that doesn't.

 

[RM Truth]

You can already use the late tech window to bait out tech attempts, and by using throws very little, you keep the option wide open. I've seen plenty of throws landed, regardless of the tech window, and I've seen tech baits like crazy.

I think they're fine as is, actually. The only thing I would've done to them is make more throws that aren't going to chuck the opponent halfway across the screen, because I can't think of one that doesn't.

Green Arrow

 

[Briggs8417]

I'm going to make some adjustments to the OP, because I can see some of these points and how they would effect the game. I made this to try talk some of this out and make some decent suggestions. I do think throws could be more of an option in this game and I want this game to be da bess...so yeah.

 

[THTB]

Green Arrow

Well there's one. But that's just one. Like...someone like Shazam could've had a throw that leaves you close.

 

[RM Truth]

Well there's one. But that's just one. Like...someone like Shazam could've had a throw that leaves you close.

I think maybe Hawkgirl too. Not sure.

EDIT: That might make Shazam too op.

 

[Briggs8417]

You can already use the late tech window to bait out tech attempts, and by using throws very little, you keep the option wide open. I've seen plenty of throws landed, regardless of the tech window, and I've seen tech baits like crazy.

I think they're fine as is, actually. The only thing I would've done to them is make more throws that aren't going to chuck the opponent halfway across the screen, because I can't think of one that doesn't.

I understand that tech baits are an option, but those are for people who can't do it on reaction every time you throw. I can hardly ever land throws on my training partner because he doesn't read throws he just reacts to them. Although the man does have some of the more freakish reactions I've ever seen, it's still an issue I run into often. I do still think throws need to beat out armor, and maybe be made faster to give slower characters a gtfo option, but I would be willing to give up the rest of my suggestions, because I can indeed see your points.

 

[THTB]

I understand that tech baits are an option, but those are for people who can't do it on reaction every time you throw. I can hardly ever land throws on my training partner because he doesn't read throws he just reacts to them. Although the man does have some of the more freakish reactions I've ever seen, it's still an issue I run into often. I do still think throws need to beat out armor, and maybe be made faster to give slower characters a gtfo option, but I would be willing to give up the rest of my suggestions, because I can indeed see your points.

I can tech throws pretty well on reaction, too. It's not hard, but you're simply not always going to do it.

Hell, I've seen REO get blown up for trying to tech, and I know that guy has really solid reactions.

 

[Briggs8417]

I'd agree with a slightly smaller tech window, or more damage. The one thing about throws is that you can abuse the fact of people trying to tech. Instead of doing walk up throw, you can walk up and do a string or walk up and f3 with a character like GL.

People aren't abusing empty jump throw enough either. Lots of characters have throw setups they can get instead of normal oki, it just depends on the character.

I know about tech baits, but as mentioned, the tech window is just too huge for me to rely on that part of the metagame, I can hardly ever bait someone into thinking the throw is coming because they don't read throws they react to them.

 

[Briggs8417]

I can tech throws pretty well on reaction, too. It's not hard, but you're simply not always going to do it.

Hell, I've seen REO get blown up for trying to tech, and I know that guy has really solid reactions.

Yeah it's not always going to be done that way, but it is still very consistent. A little too consistent for me to believe that baiting techs is that big. I think if the window were reduced by maybe 7-8 frames it would be a lot better.

 

[GamerBlake90]

I'm guessing my status update was the source of this conversation.

I still don't agree with throws being crouched and I see no reason parries should fail against them...and teching them? Hope you have godlike reactions for that, 'cause I was never able to get consistent with that shit. Every time I teched a throw, it was by accident.

I'll get used to their current mechanics as they are, though.