my injustice balance (flame suit on)

[osso]

osso I feel like the Top Tiers of this game create a challenge, pushing everyone to perform the best they can and develop the game further as time passes. Nerfing them would kinda kill the game and the motivation to overcome and conquer.

that's why i think it's best to keep the key aspects of top tiers.

like for example on superman i left all of the below alone

- the range of his f+2
- the speed of his f+2
- the speed of his super
- the strength of his zoning
- the armor breaking properties of his trait

and on black adam

- the versatility of his trait
- the safeness on his lightning strike
- the distance of his backdash
- the recovery of his backdash
- the recovery on his dive kick
- his overall mobility


i believe the two characters above will always be really good as long as you don't take away their key aspects.

 

[trufenix]

things would be a little too auto pilot. imagine seeing joker and ares abuse the same two things over and over because it's just that good and why not? now apply that to all the other characters. it would be a funny game.

i mean, who am i kidding? it would be awesome if every character did 70% combos and had safe spammable launchers, plus more. but isn't that why everyone hates marvel?

That's a ridiculous statement that cheapens every piece of tech and knowledge that's been discovered since April. None of the top characters in Injustice are as brainless and autopilot as you claim. Some of them get away with murder in bad matchups or against lesser players, but none of the top performing characters or players win because they "abuse the same two things over and over again".

Even F+2,3perman requires an understanding of when to apply his zoning, proper meter management (for setting up his godly super) and the ability to read his opponent into the corner and apply his high execution combos in addition to just pressing f+2,3 xx breath all day. Seriously, who does this supposed 70% meterless non-situational damage?

And trying to throw marvel under the bus is a seriously unwarranted cheap shot. Marvel is broken, but its players love that brokenness, and even if the top tiers are obvious and clearly superior to the low tiers, its not like you just pick Zero, Doom, Vergil and the wins happen. You have to have setups and incoming mix ups, you have to have your execution down, and you have to know something about your opponents playstyle and characters too.

Paulo has said on a number of occasions the goal was to make a game where every character was absolutely nuts. There are a couple of things that "might" need to be nerfed at this stage, but this game would be absolutely awesome if every character in the game was as explosive as batman or aquaman.

 

[osso]

That's a ridiculous statement that cheapens every piece of tech and knowledge that's been discovered since April. None of the top characters in Injustice are as brainless and autopilot as you claim. Some of them get away with murder in bad matchups or against lesser players, but none of the top performing characters or players win because they "abuse the same two things over and over again".

Even F+2,3perman requires an understanding of when to apply his zoning, proper meter management (for setting up his godly super) and the ability to read his opponent into the corner and apply his high execution combos in addition to just pressing f+2,3 xx breath all day. Seriously, who does this supposed 70% meterless non-situational damage?

And trying to throw marvel under the bus is a seriously unwarranted cheap shot. Marvel is broken, but its players love that brokenness, and even if the top tiers are obvious and clearly superior to the low tiers, its not like you just pick Zero, Doom, Vergil and the wins happen. You have to have setups and incoming mix ups, you have to have your execution down, and you have to know something about your opponents playstyle and characters too.

Paulo has said on a number of occasions the goal was to make a game where every character was absolutely nuts. There are a couple of things that "might" need to be nerfed at this stage, but this game would be absolutely awesome if every character in the game was as explosive as batman or aquaman.

i know there are no characters that are auto pilot and brainless in injustice. it was a figure of speech. but i'm not sure where you're getting at. are you saying superman and black adam would not have anything "nuts" after these nerfs?

 

[trufenix]

i know there are no characters that are auto pilot and brainless in injustice. it was a figure of speech. but i'm not sure where you're getting at. are you saying superman and black adam would not have anything "nuts" after these nerfs?

My point is BA/Superman don't need (most) of the commonly requested nerfs, so much as lots of other characters need buffs. A top tier fight in Injustice is pretty exciting to participate in and watch, its only when top tiers wreck low tiers that the balance looks so abysmal.

The top tiers (which is barely agreed on to begin with) have way less good matchups than the low tiers have bad match ups. Superman, BA, Batman, Aquaman, etc are competitive or even-ish with about half the cast, while character like Lobo, Shazam and Joker lose to the vast majority of it.

Making it so Joker can punish BA's backdash isn't going to change the part where (and I'm just spitballing cause I don't play Joker) HG or WW or Arrow still just run the table on him. It's just going to make it so BA has more bad matchups.

 

[osso]

My point is BA/Superman don't need (most) of the commonly requested nerfs, so much as lots of other characters need buffs. A top tier fight in Injustice is pretty exciting to participate in and watch, its only when top tiers wreck low tiers that the balance looks so abysmal.

The top tiers (which is barely agreed on to begin with) have way less good matchups than the low tiers have bad match ups. Superman, BA, Batman, Aquaman, etc are competitive or even-ish with about half the cast, while character like Lobo, Shazam and Joker lose to the vast majority of it.

Making it so Joker can punish BA's backdash isn't going to change the part where (and I'm just spitballing cause I don't play Joker) HG or WW or Arrow still just run the table on him. It's just going to make it so BA has more bad matchups.

i agree. which is why i kept the speed of supermans f+2 the same. the distance and recovery of black adam's backdash the same. etc. etc. if you take a look at my changes, most of the nerfs are reasonable. all low tiers got buffed good i would assume. but i could always be wrong.

 

[Goldi]

I think I just read "nerf the entire cast except for my mains"..... again.

 

[trufenix]

i agree. which is why i kept the speed of supermans f+2 the same. the distance and recovery of black adam's backdash the same. etc. etc. if you take a look at my changes, most of the nerfs are reasonable. all low tiers got buffed good i would assume. but i could always be wrong.

Well, I only skimmed it cause most of these threads are awful (nothing personal). Taking a quick glance, I don't even want to get involved. Fixing the glitches is obvious, mid stuff that doesn't hit and stuff that inexplicably turns of when supers / clashes activate, but taking away batman's bats, killing aquaman's trait, destroying frosts slide and taking away black adam's only meterless wake up, then handing out insane tools like a free wallbounce for HG or Cyborgs +40, hard knockdown, instant punish, giving Grundy BA's trait, or giving Joker Batman's parry with an MB option to make him faster than BA is risky bordering on insane. I think you should try playing Killer Frost for a week before you decide she should have as shitty a slide as Green Arrow.

 

[osso]

Well, I only skimmed it cause most of these threads are awful (nothing personal). Taking a quick glance, I don't even want to get involved. Fixing the glitches is obvious, mid stuff that doesn't hit and stuff that inexplicably turns of when supers / clashes activate, but taking away batman's bats, killing aquaman's trait, destroying frosts slide and taking away black adam's only meterless wake up, then handing out insane tools like a free wallbounce for HG or Cyborgs +40, hard knockdown, instant punish, giving Grundy BA's trait, or giving Joker Batman's parry with an MB option to make him faster than BA is risky bordering on insane. I think you should try playing Killer Frost for a week before you decide she should have as shitty a slide as Green Arrow.

how are batman's bats taken away? i explained it on post #14. same with aquaman's trait.

destroying killer frost's slide? how so? -5 would still be safe on block. the invincibility is still there on wake-up for about a character space in traveling distance. the added whiff recovery to slide would not be much, just about five frames.

black adam still has his d,f+1 as a safe wake-up if you read your opponent is going to bait your cage. and you could always meter burn lightning cage on wake up if you're wrong on the guess.

why do you find the hawkgirl buff to her wing evade 1 so ridiculous? i think it's fair with how insanely hard it is to land on any human opponent. you should be rewarded.

+40 knockdown for cyborg is similar to his 1,1,2 knockdown hit advantage. i don't see what's the big deal.

grundy having black adam's trait? not even close. do you know how much recovery regular grave rot has? and the damage you get off for being up close the entire duration is nothing overbearing.

joker's trait should be that good. and even then, it would still be hard to land.


i think some of your comparisons are way off a little bit.

 

[osso]

I think I just read "nerf the entire cast except for my mains"..... again.

my main is mmh and batman. >_>

 

[jozuvloke]

Wait I thought there's no more nerfing going on! Just low tier getting swole? Lol... and some of this stuff is crazy! Take away dd block advantage on mb shoulder and mess with the earth shaker and hell b garbage! And sups is fine just the way he is! Shazam needs faster projectiles quicker trait activation and that damn torpedo needs help! Change these ridiculous bdf inputs too please!

 

[187x]

these are terrible suggestions.

 

[THTB]

The Superman changes are absolutely hilarious. I don't know if serious or not, but regardless, that would be HILARIOUS if NRS were to do a 1-day hotfix troll like that LMFAO!

 

[TH3DISTURBED1]

I could come up with better buffs and nerfs without having any idea how to play. Destroy the top tier and buff the bottom tier to S+ status. Great idea.

 

[Goldi]

my main is mmh and batman. >_>

I could tell lol

 

[TarkatanDentist]

Controversial opinion -I don't think Superman's f23 is nearly as bad as it's so often claimed to be. It's very obviously a great tool, but I don't think it needs to be nerfed to the ground. In fact, all they need to do is either increase the block pushback on Ice Breath, or make Ice Breath -2 on block (not both!), and then f23 is fine.

However, he could really do with his Super being reduced in damage by a few percent and hitting mid rather than overhead. Also, his trait shouldn't buff his damage nearly as much as it does - a 10% damage buff would be just fine.

 

[osso]

The Superman changes are absolutely hilarious. I don't know if serious or not, but regardless, that would be HILARIOUS if NRS were to do a 1-day hotfix troll like that LMFAO!

would you care to explain? i'm interested in what you mean exactly.

these are terrible suggestions.

which ones do you think are the worst?

I could come up with better buffs and nerfs without having any idea how to play. Destroy the top tier and buff the bottom tier to S+ status. Great idea.

i still don't understand how the top tier are "destroyed" exactly.

I could tell lol

i'm not sure what that means exactly. do you think mmh and batman were not nerfed enough?

 

[DownfouralitY]

REO, add increased viability of Ares' wakeups/backdash speed and I will agree with you.

 

[Mighty Durpyena]

I stopped reading at the KF Part. That shit was wacky.

 

[osso]

DownfouralitY flying over your opponents head on wake up with the meter burn god smack buff is not enough to fuel your conflict?

Mighty Durpyena but killer frost doesn't need it ;_;

 

[DownfouralitY]

DownfouralitY flying over your opponents head on wake up with the meter burn god smack buff is not enough to fuel your conflict?

Mighty Durpyena but killer frost doesn't need it ;_;

yes lol

 

[TH3DISTURBED1]

would you care to explain? i'm interested in what you mean exactly.


which ones do you think are the worst?


i still don't understand how the top tier are "destroyed" exactly.



i'm not sure what that means exactly. do you think mmh and batman were not nerfed enough?

Aquaman is an unsafe character. When his trait is on cd, he must turtle. The point of trait is he can take a few risks here and there and no be full combo punished.

Batman has no range on his normals. The point of his trait is to "extend his arms." To eliminate his ability to ground combo with 1 or 2 bats into 25-40% takes him from good to below average. Changing the last hit of 122 to overhead is useless.

Superman having -20 on block for his F2, and F23 makes it so the worst of fighting game players can punish it. Instead of you learning how to play against it, you would rather it be nerfed to the point of the opponent being scared to throw it out. If you don't like the loop, feel free to suggest that outside of the corner, there is either no pushback on superbreath, or it pushes you outside the range of F2.

The reason Black Adam's B23 is +3 is because it is SLOW to come out.

Why don't you just come out and say you have never played a fighting game before, and do no understand how balancing works?

 

[4x4lo8o]

Not enough Ares buffs. Those buffs are mostly useless

 

[SatsuiYesHadou]

It should be front paged how ridiculous these changes are.

 

[osso]

Aquaman is an unsafe character. When his trait is on cd, he must turtle. The point of trait is he can take a few risks here and there and no be full combo punished.

aquaman is an unsafe character? ground trident is one of the safest ground tracking attacks in the game. you can end everything you do on block with trident rush for 5% chip which is safe against 97% of the cast. you can learn to hit confirm off of his b+1,2 string. what exactly makes him such an unsafe character? his trait is the icing on the cake. he is a very good character without it. he's hard to open up if played properly. the way his trait is now does nothing but make a lot of matches very lop sided. see harley, catwoman, zatanna, batgirl, green arrow, etc. etc.

Batman has no range on his normals. The point of his trait is to "extend his arms." To eliminate his ability to ground combo with 1 or 2 bats into 25-40% takes him from good to below average. Changing the last hit of 122 to overhead is useless.

the point of his trait is to initiate offense or zone actually. using it as "extended arm of reach" is just a bonus as is many other attributes it gives. he would still be high tier as his bats get to keep their ridiculous cooldown. his extremely good jump 2. his absurd meter burn batarang advantage. his bat trait cancel advantage. his strong zoning. etc. etc.

Superman having -20 on block for his F2, and F23 makes it so the worst of fighting game players can punish it. Instead of you learning how to play against it, you would rather it be nerfed to the point of the opponent being scared to throw it out. If you don't like the loop, feel free to suggest that outside of the corner, there is either no pushback on superbreath, or it pushes you outside the range of F2.

you can block confirm breath off of f+2,3 to make it safe.

The reason Black Adam's B23 is +3 is because it is SLOW to come out.

15 frames is very fast for an overhead. especially one with the range of black adam's, that is safe, and goes into full combos.

sinestro has a 14 frame b+2 overhead. is that also slow? no way. how about wonder woman's 17 frame overhead which is b+2? these are fast overheads. even killer frost who has a 19 frame f+3 overhead is considered fast.

 

[Compbros]

you can block confirm breath off of f+2,3 to make it safe.

Then why even make it that negative on block?