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Debunking "spamming"

TaffyMeat

Infinite Meter Kombos
"I do better combos so im better than u haha"
Of course because I have not played injustice. But seriously, regardless of what people think of different ways to play the game, it's a good thing that there ARE different ways to play. An example would be some guy I played in mk vs dc years ago. He was rubbish, but I noticed his pattern and he was trying to copy how the computer used the character.
 

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
Of course because I have not played injustice. But seriously, regardless of what people think of different ways to play the game, it's a good thing that there ARE different ways to play. An example would be some guy I played in mk vs dc years ago. He was rubbish, but I noticed his pattern and he was trying to copy how the computer used the character.
That's impossible, no human can read your moves!
 

TaffyMeat

Infinite Meter Kombos
That's impossible, no human can read your moves!
With online, it usually tends to be the same people playing all the time, day after day. Play them enough and people get used to each others patterns and can read what will happen next. Because of familiarity with whom they're playing against.
 

Clark

Hides behind armor
There is no such thing as "spamming" or being "cheap" in a fighting game. There is "zoning," "keep away," "rushdown," etc. My favorite is getting hate mail for doing Superman's max damage combo every time I get an opening, and they say something like "yeah you spam that one combo." Oh, am I not supposed to do my max damage combo? My bad.
 

LEGI0N47

I like to play bad characters
Nice video Ketcheup.

People on-line are funny. I was in a lobby this week where an adolesant educated me that I was spamming because I kept doing the same thing over and over. This was with Bane and CW btw. So just FYI if you get in someones face and mix them up constantly you're a spammer ;)
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
I agree gunshots are more of a pain online, but nearly every character is harder to deal with when you play in a delayed connection, not just Deathstroke exclusively.

I always found playing against Sinestro being way worse online that fighting Deathstroke, mainly because of the overhead boulder hitting me 100% of the time. Even if I block a minute in advance.
It's also pretty character dependent due to dash speeds though. I play as Joker, who has pretty slow dashes, so this further exacerbates lag issues, whereas someone like Doomsday or Superman doesn't even really need to pay attention to their timing. But I certainly agree with what you put up here- it's in no way overpowered and doesn't deserve the nonsense that people say about gunshots being too good or overpowered. Good video man =).
 
TL;DR - You will have cancer by end of post.
Also people who complain about spam, will not care to watch a tutorial on it.

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Spamming: Doing the same thing over and over again that the opponent has made blatantly obvious that they can not work around. Usually doing something that exploits a weakness of another player's character choice and in the case of injustice "stage choice".

Camping: Utilizing an optimal spot within an FPS and holding your ground firmly. This tends to be in a spot where the camper would have the advantage i.e. behind a corner, a tight 1 way space in which they will ALWAYS see you before you see them. Normally exploiting a landscapes geography.

Running (3D PVP Beat-em up exclusive): People who have a primary weapon with good range i.e. Guns/Arrows ect. Since its not 2d they literally run around and force you to chase. In which they can then turn around and pop you. In many 3D PvP games they aren't the most balanced so given stage design this can be something that is exploitable.

The key words here are not "Spamming/Camping/Running". They key word is various forms of "exploit" the fact is most games today are not 100% skill based. As we know there are times where "this character can exploit this character simply because they exist." Hence "counter picking". In fighting games (Taking Injustice here), If I'm playing Green Arrow and I get stuck against a Super Man that's one thing. However couple that with being stuck vs Super Man on Roof Top. The Super Man doesn't have to be "great". Just simply serviceable and my uphill battle has become a full 90 degree climb and we haven't even started the match yet. The fact that a character can simply "DO" something that mine can't can skew the mind into believing that something is unfair. Because my character's exploitable lack of ability to do something.

Now the thing here is in an FPS all maps would have to be symmetrical. Each team would have to have access to the same weapons, power ups, ect all at equal distances from one another to make sure SKILL is what decides the game. So if someone on (Team A) decides to camp. Someone on (Team B) can now go camp in the mirrored location. Although this sounds ludicrous that is how the people complaining have their mentality set. If you can exploit that I don't have an EQUAL chance to do myself, it becomes on of the aformentioned ['ing] words.

(Example)​
A much more reasonable example is take the FPS genre. As we all know in some games (Team A) starts closer to the good power ups/weapons in relation to (Team B). If there is only one sniper rifle on the map and its right next to (Team A), it would make no sense whatsoever for (Team A) to say.​
"Guys its not fair... we're closer to the Rockets and the Sniper.. its only fair to let opposition gain access to one of these!"​
(Team A) is going to take both because the game allows it.​

Now is it unfair? To an extent. Can it eliminate skill from the equation? Yes it can. Now lets go back to fighters. As we all know every fight is not even. This is validated by the simple existance of the concept of MU numbers. You can simply exploit someone's choice of character by making a simple pick. No skill has been shown, just a simple handicap to cover a skill gap or to increase one. These games were designed for fun and now this uber competitive element has made it where a lot of "Gamers" can not even have the slightest bit of fun unless they win ALL THE TIME and have no problem with using the exploits given to them by the game. These games are primarily marketed to have FUN not to be a 100% competitively driven sport.

In sports you have the SAME amount of players on a SYMETRICAL field of play or at least the same point of origin and the ONLY thing that matters is your skill level. Not which racket you choose, which cleats you wear, not the type of goggles you got, your simple ability ALONE. Games are not sports, this is invalid way to think. There are balanced things and there are things that are just inherently bad and cannot be helped. Your skill level CAN overcome some of these imbalances however when you couple these imbalances with things like "lag", "host advantage", "latency", for some people who are here for just "jollies" are going to agitated. None of these people who cry spam/camp and all of that are going to be at events held for their respective games. So they don't understand the concept of "casual" and "high level" play and that there is a distinct different between those two metagames.

Like when I play Injustice with my dad who is decent'ish. I'm not going to pick Bane and just command grab the hell out of him because I know he can't stop it. I know we are playing to enjoy ourselves. Not to get better. Not to have a long drawn out match. Not to let ONE MOVE dictate out the other person will be playing. And that my friends is where babies come from. Oh and why people get so salty over things they shouldn't get salty about and why people justify an action that doesn't need to be justified.



And for the ONE person who read this. My fingers SOLUTE YOU!

Edit: Did I debunk it right?
 

ELC

Scrublord McGee
You should be able to do whatever is in the game. If it's in the game, do it. The problem I have is with players who never question whether or not what they're doing SHOULD be in the game. Is it fucking stupid or is it ok? That's where most fg players drop the ball. They don't think about design, and don't care about design. Many would play whatever you put in front of them as long as they can find something to exploit. That seems like a little kid mentality, and it's weird seeing adults with it. When I was 13 I loved doing robot smoke's 99% spear infinite on MK3, but I was a kid. I didn't care if it should be in or out. It was cheap, so it was good. It's dumb for people to keep complaining about a feature of the game that won't be changed, but it's not dumb to question if that feature is stupid or not.
Yes it is, at least when it comes to stategic diversity (noninteractive scenarios such as death combos and block infinites are indeed dumb). Just because one finds simple zoning dumb does not mean all others do as well or that even all forms of zoning are dumb (projectiles vs normals and spacing vs traps).

And to just to make it clear: go play Street Fighter 1 or Karate Champ and tell me that strategic diversity is not necessary for a game to be fun.
 

Saboteur-6

Filthy Casual
I know it's going to be talking to a brick wall for some viewers. I just put the video out there just in case, basically.
Sadly this. The people who would benefit the most from watching this video will never see it because it'd require:

1. Admitting that they don't know everything
2. Having a genuine interest in getting better at the game
3. Taking the time to actually pursue information to get better.

All of these qualities are not common in the type of person this video is made for. Regardless however, great great video PND_Ketchup.

P.S. I'd post the "If you spam I will ban you from me" meme but I can't find it.
EDIT: Thanks!

 

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
Sadly this. The people who would benefit the most from watching this video will never see it because it'd require:

1. Admitting that they don't know everything
2. Having a genuine interest in getting better at the game
3. Taking the time to actually pursue information to get better.

All of these qualities are not common in the type of person this video is made for. Regardless however, great great video PND_Ketchup.

P.S. I'd post the "If you spam I will ban you from me" meme but I can't find it.
Appreciate it buddy :) That's a shame, but it's likely the case. there's someone in the comments trying to tell me why characters like Zatana are OP, and that the patches are killing the game. Even though to my knowledge, the patches have made the game better gradually, as opposed to the all over the place patches that happened to MK.

The meme should be on google if you google "FGC scrub meme".
 

Saboteur-6

Filthy Casual
Appreciate it buddy :) That's a shame, but it's likely the case. there's someone in the comments trying to tell me why characters like Zatana are OP, and that the patches are killing the game. Even though to my knowledge, the patches have made the game better gradually, as opposed to the all over the place patches that happened to MK.

The meme should be on google if you google "FGC scrub meme".
That's because in the mind of a scrub, "Anything that I immediately don't know how to deal with is OP."

EDIT:
I figured out the reason people have such intense irrational and emotional reactions over video games though. It's all about the power fantasy which in essence, is what (most) video games provide and what most people come to video games for. However, when confronted with actual human competition (or anything else that would impede that fantasy) the opposite actually occurs. It elicits a feeling of POWERLESSNESS...the complete opposite desired outcome. Thus the emotional reactions / irrational justifications that manifest externally as "Shit talking hatemail, Anger, Finding excuses, Placing blame on ANYTHING other than the individual, etc."
 

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
That's because in the mind of a scrub, "Anything that I immediately don't know how to deal with is OP."
I'd hate to see his reaction to the tech that Deg uploaded involving the clone attack. He'd be calling for her to get the ban hammer most likely.

(Worth mentioning, I know nothing about that character lmao.)
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
Hey guys.

I know this video isn't exactly important on testyourmight, as you guys actually have braincells, and understand that zoning is legit. But I thought I'd share it anyway incase anyone wants to kill ten minutes.


I've had so much hate mail using Deathstroke, as much as I find it hilarious, I figured there may be a few people out there that are genuinely stumped at how to beat Zoning characters, so I put it together just in case someones having some issues.

Check it out and let me know what you think :)

Thanks!
Game is bad, players mad. Good players like you make it fun to watch at least :D
 

Saboteur-6

Filthy Casual
I'd hate to see his reaction to the tech that Deg uploaded involving the clone attack. He'd be calling for her to get the ban hammer most likely.

(Worth mentioning, I know nothing about that character lmao.)
Man Zatanna is under the radar right now because she's got obscure setups and people are writing her off. She's literally a character designed with an emphasis on the meta-game with your opponent as being integral to actual gameplay. I mean she actually has a move that fucks with your opponents button inputs...that's pretty damn meta.