@colt when you have some free time check it
Also consider making bf3(superman) some frames faster...something near to 10f?? so we use it for as a proper wake up attack and dont be afraid they gonna armor break us even on that moves which is already too much minus on block..
we cant even yolo..liu,lao,johhny,jax and other characters with armor breaking strings mop us on the wake up..
10-frame superman would mean free corner carry on so many things. While I like the idea of the Shinnok matchup becoming amazing, it feels like a luxury buff. I'd rather have Paulo be busy nerfing the hell out of Kobu Jutsu
i though about that too but already we have 6f punish and 8f far punish...that isnt about the punish but the wake up option..if we go for launcher ok armor break us..if you try armor break we superman ex..just to have an option..
In mk9 we had 10f superman iirc and everyone was ok with that..back then they nerfed the recovery not the speed
i though about that too but already we have 6f punish and 8f far punish...that isnt about the punish but the wake up option..if we go for launcher ok armor break us..if you try armor break we superman ex..just to have an option..
In mk9 we had 10f superman iirc and everyone was ok with that..back then they nerfed the recovery not the speed
Well 8f isn't really far imo, especially with miss inputs making you fall back.
Also having the starter frames of thunderfly reduced is asking a little too much, the hitbox can me quite tricky against some armor break.
At most reduce a little the recovery to avoid to get punished when you trade whiffs (you whiff jump the thunder fly, during that your opponent whiff full string but still can punish you while running full screen). This trade isn't really fair imo since both players are whiffing their moves. BUT I'm not talking about the situation where the opponent whiffes purposely to trigger mind game. Just the situation where both players whiffs punishables whiffing moves but Raiden is punished because of that huge recovery, even though he is fullscreen.
This change (recovery reduction) would give opportunity to give Raiden's player to not be afraid of AA with thunderfly, punished if doing randomly and corner carry if opponent jumps randomly. If a whiff trade occurs, both players are "safe", Raiden can at least guard but doesn't have priority. However, not talking about TPing characters, they could punish it with tp since there is no run.
I do think some characters having break armor wake up strings is ok, there are specific setup to input them and all. You have ways to get out of that (TP armor, but yeah, depends on character). What I think really weird, is that you can't punish them when they whiff it completely whereas you can do it against the only break armor wake up of Raiden (b32 in TG). Which has to be put as soon as you finish thunderfly because of early starter wake up (spin, slides...). Even if you do it as soon as you can, wake up delay punishes it T_T
While seeing some buffs such as Scorpion's, maybe put 21 like -2 or -3 instead of -6. It could bring more mindgames. If you fear about LRC being op, it just makes it positive at +2 at most (atm, 21 LRC is really negative and punished by SZ's slide post beta). This buff won't make it imba, it is not positive on block, its first hit is high and 10f (I don't remember someone said it became 8f in beta, even if it were, still high and punishable like the 6f). With this we could see a return of this string on pressing because what's he point to use it on guard (214 is -3 on block). We have f4 which is -4 (post beta) where no one knew that data and then you could armor. f12b2 to get push back and meterbuild. They made a huge change of b34 to make us use it, why not that change ? Still high 10f and not hacked positive on block.
Else, just give more advantage on hit to b14 or reduce its recovery. Being punished because restanding failed due to lag is just weird to see. Same to see that you can be armored when you restanded your opponent. You can lightning ball to avoid this problem though.
The biggest problem I see though, is the d3. What's the point of this move instead of telling your opponent tolow crush or armor you ? +6f on hit means there is no frame trap at all, you may also loose that advantage if you react a "little" to slow, but that is understandable, we need to master our timing and inputs. Even so, no frame traps on hit, same as punishable than d1 and slower than d1.
Let me explain the uselessness of this poke :
- you are at poke trading, you want to counter poke and get a frame trap on hit, d1 is better for that situation. Even if you hit with d3 because guard is high, opponent can still backdash you or jump or armor.
- you need to break opponent's pressing with a low profile move, d1 still better because of starter frame, same with hit advantage because you can b1, f1 or even 2 if you're skilled after than on hit.
- you hit on block, you've the same disadvantage than d3. Also most of players guards down, but it doesn't mean you'll think about safe overhead everytime.
- you want to poke grab, ok here d3 is cool because you can d3 and mash your grab button. You just need a little delay with your inputs after d1, but you can't see this delay with animation (d1's hit's animation hasn't ended yet when you input)
And I won't compare this d3 to other characters because it's fully understandable that every characters have to be different from each other. But I've never seen those two pokes on other characters being the same on disadvantage and being SO different on advantages they offer.
Ah also, there is a legend it may counter jump in/cross up because hitbox is moving and then you can link to f1 (this link isn't a legend though). This is still a risk and match up depending. You whiff d3 and opponents whiff also his jump in, you get punished by a 8f.
Yeah if I resume that, I'm mostly complaining about Raiden's recovery and I understand he is a strong whiff punish character. But when you see a b2 hit on a jump in/cross up, the 2nd doesn't, and then your opponent just punish you as soon as he stands up is a little intriguing.
Not talking about the grab being minus on hit, I think this is a great tool for pressing on corner (you know exactly if your opponent wakes up or delays it)
Well 8f isn't really far imo, especially with miss inputs making you fall back.
Also having the starter frames of thunderfly reduced is asking a little too much, the hitbox can me quite tricky against some armor break.
At most reduce a little the recovery to avoid to get punished when you trade whiffs (you whiff jump the thunder fly, during that your opponent whiff full string but still can punish you while running full screen). This trade isn't really fair imo since both players are whiffing their moves. BUT I'm not talking about the situation where the opponent whiffes purposely to trigger mind game. Just the situation where both players whiffs punishables whiffing moves but Raiden is punished because of that huge recovery, even though he is fullscreen.
This change (recovery reduction) would give opportunity to give Raiden's player to not be afraid of AA with thunderfly, punished if doing randomly and corner carry if opponent jumps randomly. If a whiff trade occurs, both players are "safe", Raiden can at least guard but doesn't have priority. However, not talking about TPing characters, they could punish it with tp since there is no run.
I do think some characters having break armor wake up strings is ok, there are specific setup to input them and all. You have ways to get out of that (TP armor, but yeah, depends on character). What I think really weird, is that you can't punish them when they whiff it completely whereas you can do it against the only break armor wake up of Raiden (b32 in TG). Which has to be put as soon as you finish thunderfly because of early starter wake up (spin, slides...). Even if you do it as soon as you can, wake up delay punishes it T_T
While seeing some buffs such as Scorpion's, maybe put 21 like -2 or -3 instead of -6. It could bring more mindgames. If you fear about LRC being op, it just makes it positive at +2 at most (atm, 21 LRC is really negative and punished by SZ's slide post beta). This buff won't make it imba, it is not positive on block, its first hit is high and 10f (I don't remember someone said it became 8f in beta, even if it were, still high and punishable like the 6f). With this we could see a return of this string on pressing because what's he point to use it on guard (214 is -3 on block). We have f4 which is -4 (post beta) where no one knew that data and then you could armor. f12b2 to get push back and meterbuild. They made a huge change of b34 to make us use it, why not that change ? Still high 10f and not hacked positive on block.
Else, just give more advantage on hit to b14 or reduce its recovery. Being punished because restanding failed due to lag is just weird to see. Same to see that you can be armored when you restanded your opponent. You can lightning ball to avoid this problem though.
The biggest problem I see though, is the d3. What's the point of this move instead of telling your opponent tolow crush or armor you ? +6f on hit means there is no frame trap at all, you may also loose that advantage if you react a "little" to slow, but that is understandable, we need to master our timing and inputs. Even so, no frame traps on hit, same as punishable than d1 and slower than d1.
Let me explain the uselessness of this poke :
- you are at poke trading, you want to counter poke and get a frame trap on hit, d1 is better for that situation. Even if you hit with d3 because guard is high, opponent can still backdash you or jump or armor.
- you need to break opponent's pressing with a low profile move, d1 still better because of starter frame, same with hit advantage because you can b1, f1 or even 2 if you're skilled after than on hit.
- you hit on block, you've the same disadvantage than d3. Also most of players guards down, but it doesn't mean you'll think about safe overhead everytime.
- you want to poke grab, ok here d3 is cool because you can d3 and mash your grab button. You just need a little delay with your inputs after d1, but you can't see this delay with animation (d1's hit's animation hasn't ended yet when you input)
And I won't compare this d3 to other characters because it's fully understandable that every characters have to be different from each other. But I've never seen those two pokes on other characters being the same on disadvantage and being SO different on advantages they offer.
Ah also, there is a legend it may counter jump in/cross up because hitbox is moving and then you can link to f1 (this link isn't a legend though). This is still a risk and match up depending. You whiff d3 and opponents whiff also his jump in, you get punished by a 8f.
Yeah if I resume that, I'm mostly complaining about Raiden's recovery and I understand he is a strong whiff punish character. But when you see a b2 hit on a jump in/cross up, the 2nd doesn't, and then your opponent just punish you as soon as he stands up is a little intriguing.
Not talking about the grab being minus on hit, I think this is a great tool for pressing on corner (you know exactly if your opponent wakes up or delays it)
it may took me 2 days to read it(no kidding) but i agree with a lot of things..but if you think of it now..doing superman after break isnt a bad option because the opponent cant run...
Except ofc against characters with combo full screen projectile like ermac,sub etc etc
ok i figured out what buffs raiden needs for being very good atleast in 2 variations and with this buffs he would go 5-5 against other strong characers like jax, johnny e.t.c. raidens weaknesses is very bad neutral game, being low profiled by almost everyone, he doesnt have good fast long range mids and good fast long range pokes for good neutral game and also his deffens is not that good his armor gets blown up by most of the cast.
right way to buff raiden properly imo. good neutral game and counters for low profiling.
1) df2 and ex df2 now mid - its would be very smart buff making electrocute df2 and shocker ex df2 mid its would be one of the answers for low profiling .
2) df2 down from -7 on block to -5 on block.
3) f2 down from 15 fr to 10 fr - you ask why 10 fr and most of you will say "10 frame is too fast omg bla bla bla e.t.c.", even if f2 was fixed its not true mid and can be low profiled (even if f2 wouldve be true mid, 15 frames startup for good true mid is too slow imo, atleast its needs to be 13 fr true mid for being very usefull), max dmg combo withouth meter in thunder god off of f2 is 15% if im not wrong. so making f2 10 frames would be very good and its would be good for neutral game.
4) d4 down from 13 fr to 10 fr - if they will buff f2 making its 10 frames, f2 still not true mid and still can be low profiled, b1 is too short and not true mid so 10 fr d4 would be answer for low profiling and also its would be very good for neutral game.
5) bf3 and ex bf3 down from 14 fr to 10 fr - like nivek said most of raidens armors gets blown up by most of the characters so raiden needs faster armor.
i think this buffs would be enough. its would be final buffs for making raiden complet and he would be very good atleast in 2 variations . i dont think this buffs make him broke op e.t.c. - no, he just would be strong and fair character with this buffs imo.
most of you probably will say something like this "raiden would be op with this buffs bla bla bla, he doesn need more buffs bla bla bla" if you say this and you are raiden player you most likely casual player and doesnt give fuck about wining big tournaments with raiden, making top 8s and dont care about other raiden players wining the big tournaments or making top 8s e.t.c., or you just hate raiden and dont want for him more buffs you just dont want him being good and dont want raiden going 5-5 against your characters, you just want your characters beating raiden 6-4, 7-3 and more for easy wins e.t.c. gtfoh.
including this buffs. give to raiden more love
remove gaps in f2 2+4 hold 2+4,1122 hold 2, b1122 hold 2, 3 2+4 hold 2+4 and remove gap if there is a gap before df2 when raiden cancel all lightning strings into electrocute df2
all lightnigs strings -7 on block
b2 down from 12 fr to 9 fr
b2 down fron -32 on block to -16 on block
f1 down from -6 on block to +1 on block
bring back old chip damage on lightning strings
bring back old damage on lightning strings
ok i figured out what buffs raiden needs for being very good atleast in 2 variations and with this buffs he would go 5-5 against other strong characers like jax, johnny e.t.c. we are raiden players and others raidens weaknesses is very bad neutral game, being low profiled by almost everyone, he doesnt have good fast long range mids and good fast long range pokes for good neutral game and also his deffens is not that good his armor gets blown up by most of the cast.
right way to buff raiden properly imo. good neutral game and counters for low profiling.
1) df2 and ex df2 now mid - its would be very smart buff making electrocute df2 and shocker ex df2 mid its would be one of the answers for low profiling .
2) df2 down from -7 on block to -5 on block.
3) f2 down from 15 fr to 10 fr - you ask why 10 fr and most of you will say "10 frame is too fast omg bla bla bla e.t.c.", even if f2 was fixed its not true mid and can be low profiled (even if f2 wouldve be true mid, 15 frames startup for good true mid is too slow imo, atleast its needs to be 13 fr true mid for being very usefull), max dmg combo withouth meter in thunder god off of f2 is 15% if im not wrong. so making f2 10 frames would be very good and its would be good for neutral game.
4) d4 down from 13 fr to 10 fr - if they will buff f2 making its 10 frames, f2 still not true mid and still can be low profiled, b1 is too short and not true mid so 10 fr d4 would be answer for low profiling and also its would be very good for neutral game.
5) bf3 and ex bf3 down from 14 fr to 10 fr - like nivek said most of raidens armors gets blown up by most of the characters so raiden needs faster armor.
i think this buffs would be enough. its would be final buffs for making raiden complet and he would be very good atleast in 2 variations . i dont think this buffs make him broke op e.t.c. - no, he just would be strong and fair character with this buffs imo.
most of you probably will say something like this "raiden would be op with this buffs bla bla bla, he doesn need more buffs bla bla bla" if you say this and you are raiden player you most likely casual player and doesnt give fuck about wining big tournaments with raiden, making top 8s and dont care about other raiden players wining the big tournaments or making top 8s e.t.c., or you just hate raiden and dont want for him more buffs you just dont want him being good and dont want raiden going 5-5 against your characters, you just want your characters beating raiden 6-4, 7-3 and more for easy wins e.t.c. gtfoh.
including this buffs. give to raiden more love
remove gaps in f2 2+4 hold 2+4,1122 hold 2, b1122 hold 2, 3 2+4 hold 2+4 and remove gap if there is a gap before df2 when raiden cancel all lightning strings into electrocute df2
all lightnigs strings -7 on block
b2 down from 12 fr to 9 fr
b2 down fron -32 on block to -16 on block
f1 down from -6 on block to +1 on block
bring back old chip damage on lightning strings
bring back old damage on lightning strings
After almost 9+ hours yesterday and 2hours today, Lord Raiden looks to be back on his feet! Fixes:
f2 has better hitbox but as move isnt straight and i think is more like a get out move and a kara-antiair move(jump ins 1 character away)..but at least it doesnt whiff point blank!!
b11 is at last fixed! I was expecting that months ago!! the second hit whiffed only 2 times the whole day and that was in weird hitbox situations like after d1 max range on hit,then b11 the first hit on block and the second whiff..but ib this situation b1 shouldnt hit because of range but it did!
b1 vertically has better hitbox! In the corner for example b2(first hit)ex vincinity blast f12b2(hold) then b14-fbrc-214 was veeeery hard to land because of b1..before if you would have done it too high it would have whiffed and too low it wouldnt combo the 214!! now it has better window for the correct timing!!
Buffs:
Of course f4 is a huge buff , thanks to @GGA pimpimjim for informing us. The buff is that f4 on block is +6 and can be +9 on max range!!
F4 is a strong pressure tool and a good to go in move BUT its more than 24f now which makes it either reactable or either difficult to connect it even on block..its gold against d3s and d4s..most of the time though loses to d1s and fast high/mid strings..it does help a bit his neutral but the irony is that to get the most out of it has to be far/max range and then you dont have moves to pressure the opponent(maybe only d4 reaches)
f12 +0 on block which makes the pressure better!
f12b2 (Dis and MoS) gap removed at last!
Connection:
It is the best experience i got from a fighting game(that i play)!! im very proud for it and i recomment it
I played against USA a lot and it felt reaaaaally good..when i was playing against Europe (under 100ms) was like the opponent was next to me!!
BUT shitty connections stay shitty #onlinewarriors..and not because of the game but because of players connection!
Match ups: The only characters i fought now that felt <<ok we still need something in neutral>> was JC (f3 won almost everything i was throwing at him, even jumping was a wrong idea,and JCs d4 ofc is still good for low profile, thanks for the matches @Asodimazze) , mileena(piercing b12 all day) and liu kang(his d3 goes under Raidens d1 lol)..
Variations:
ThunderGod feels a bit more stable with f12 on +0 and f4 with plus but he needs less damage scaling on his lighting strings.. 3,2+4 , f2,2+4 , b3,2 , (b)1,1,2,2 have crazy damage scaling..even in the corner you can combo max 20% for 30/40 hits lol. and 3,4 doesnt have any reason to be used imo..none..
also d3 needs either to be safe or have more + on hit.
Displacer got his f12b2 gap buff but other than that doesnt feel any better or changed.
All the plus strings (1,1,2 / f2,2+4 and f12b2) lose their meaning because they pushblock the opponent far..even if we have + we cant use it because of the distance IMO. only d1 can interrupt/pressure at that range..
Master of @st9rmhas the orb timing buff to 20sec which help you by not to pressure yourself to attack but he fells more empty than Displacer. Again. Maybe better recovery is the solution??or armor on ex orbs??(why not??SZ has armor on ex clone)
Conclusion:
Even that he has a better f4 on block and a safer f12 doesnt change the fact that he has a weak neutral game..we still need something.. but its a good move that we have the b11 fixed.
Is there even more damage scaling than prior to the BETA? Or are you just putting your thoughts on the current state of the characters? I can't even imagine more damage scaling in a game with 50% vortexes haha.
Also, I've heard there was a universal nerf to all chip damage from strings and normals. Could you notice it when you played? Someone said the nerf is percentage based which makes me think lightning strings would do almost non-existent damage, leaving them for spacing, armor break, and meter build only.
Awesome stuff, I wonder if they will take into account community thoughts before releasing this patch or if this is the new Raiden.
I'm personally really satisfied with how Raiden could be after these buffs (no beta for me so I can't truly say) and have very little more to ask for. The Raiden vs Jax/Kang/Cage doesn't really need to be 5-5 per se, it's okay for a character to have bad matchups. Then again I can't really name favorable matches for Raiden from the top of my head.
I'm personally really satisfied with how Raiden could be after these buffs (no beta for me so I can't truly say) and have very little more to ask for. The Raiden vs Jax/Kang/Cage doesn't really need to be 5-5 per se, it's okay for a character to have bad matchups. Then again I can't really name favorable matches for Raiden from the top of my head.
I have played the matchup for many games, and I don't think Johnny d4 is able to low profile ex db3...except from tip range maybe? But I don't think so, I've never seen it happen.
it may took me 2 days to read it(no kidding) but i agree with a lot of things..but if you think of it now..doing superman after break isnt a bad option because the opponent cant run...
Except ofc against characters with combo full screen projectile like ermac,sub etc etc
I like giving the most details I can to convince my audience ^^.
Haha, that include you expect no guard from your opponent. It works more when the Raiden player breaks since the opponent is dumbly rushing.
You have more yolo tactics with superman : after db1/db1 EX on block immediately superman. If you conditionned well, the guy would choose to try to jump, not fast enough to dodge superman though.
ok i figured out what buffs raiden needs for being very good atleast in 2 variations and with this buffs he would go 5-5 against other strong characers like jax, johnny e.t.c. we are raiden players and others raidens weaknesses is very bad neutral game, being low profiled by almost everyone, he doesnt have good fast long range mids and good fast long range pokes for good neutral game and also his deffens is not that good his armor gets blown up by most of the cast.
right way to buff raiden properly imo. good neutral game and counters for low profiling.
1) df2 and ex df2 now mid - its would be very smart buff making electrocute df2 and shocker ex df2 mid its would be one of the answers for low profiling .
2) df2 down from -7 on block to -5 on block.
3) f2 down from 15 fr to 10 fr - you ask why 10 fr and most of you will say "10 frame is too fast omg bla bla bla e.t.c.", even if f2 was fixed its not true mid and can be low profiled (even if f2 wouldve be true mid, 15 frames startup for good true mid is too slow imo, atleast its needs to be 13 fr true mid for being very usefull), max dmg combo withouth meter in thunder god off of f2 is 15% if im not wrong. so making f2 10 frames would be very good and its would be good for neutral game.
4) d4 down from 13 fr to 10 fr - if they will buff f2 making its 10 frames, f2 still not true mid and still can be low profiled, b1 is too short and not true mid so 10 fr d4 would be answer for low profiling and also its would be very good for neutral game.
5) bf3 and ex bf3 down from 14 fr to 10 fr - like nivek said most of raidens armors gets blown up by most of the characters so raiden needs faster armor.
i think this buffs would be enough. its would be final buffs for making raiden complet and he would be very good atleast in 2 variations . i dont think this buffs make him broke op e.t.c. - no, he just would be strong and fair character with this buffs imo.
most of you probably will say something like this "raiden would be op with this buffs bla bla bla, he doesn need more buffs bla bla bla" if you say this and you are raiden player you most likely casual player and doesnt give fuck about wining big tournaments with raiden, making top 8s and dont care about other raiden players wining the big tournaments or making top 8s e.t.c., or you just hate raiden and dont want for him more buffs you just dont want him being good and dont want raiden going 5-5 against your characters, you just want your characters beating raiden 6-4, 7-3 and more for easy wins e.t.c. gtfoh.
including this buffs. give to raiden more love
remove gaps in f2 2+4 hold 2+4,1122 hold 2, b1122 hold 2, 3 2+4 hold 2+4 and remove gap if there is a gap before df2 when raiden cancel all lightning strings into electrocute df2
all lightnigs strings -7 on block
b2 down from 12 fr to 9 fr
b2 down fron -32 on block to -16 on block
f1 down from -6 on block to +1 on block
bring back old chip damage on lightning strings
bring back old damage on lightning strings
1) If there is a reason they still didn't do it, it's because you have other armor to get anti pokes. Do you know what you're asking ? You're asking this move to be dumber. Yeah I know, db3 and df3 is riskier since it's instinctive to punish them. Guess what, df2 EX is punishable, so even if you whiff it by being blocked/low profiling, you'd get punished (shitty recovery)
Yes, all special moves of Raiden are whiff punishable even that so called safe anti air db2 EX.
Why this move isn't mid yet or will never be ? It is a great anti jump in (not to be confonded with cross up), the hitbox is humanly impossible to guess, and it's also anti cross up in corner, leading to a safe restand 50/50. Also, it is a great tool to use for whiff punish in footsies.
If you want another example of shitty wake up high : JC with his kick, there is a safe distance of nut punch and grab so you can just low croutch on his wake up, even in corner.
2)Seriously, if you want that change, just go for Goro. He has his punch walk at that exact frame data on block, double armor on his EX and also guess what, it is mid hitbox. Furthermore, he has better pokes than Raiden (6f, 6f, 9f) and their on block advantages are really low (something like -6f, -3f, -4f)
3)Even though that idea would seem really great when I want to mash my pressing in corner, I think you didn't get the purpose of this move. This is not a move anti poking which you need to do from a safe position. This is a move you need to do for rushing. You do it when you want to get your opponent after running, because f1 doesn't get you enough far (against Kung Jin's low starter for example). In TG, it triggers the 3+4 string, which is a good footsy asset. Also, it gives you a frame trap for grab or b11 (yes, it never whiffs when I set it up, because it's always in the damn corner). And no, I can get meterless around 20% in corner, getting 15% corner carry midscreen is legit because it's the purpose of it. You can get a run cancel with f2,4 with vicinity burst cancel, getting you more than 15%. How ? Use it as an anti jump in. It's hard right, but this game, competitively, isn't supposed to be easy to play. Why don't we use it like an anti air ? Cost efficiency not enough, just like 4, db2 RC.
4)In my opinion, I don't think NRS intended this move to be quick because of the advantages Raiden get. Excluding comparing his d4 to all others character, we've got that : blockstring on hit with f12b2 on any range d4 hits (timing on maximal range is tricky when you're tired, but it's is possible), on corner, you get a 50/50 on hit and on block you can again spam it, if your opponent cross up to dodge the 2nd one, the jump attack won't touch you (dive kicks excluded). Also, with the f12b2 phase, you can get meterbuild and also cancel the f12b2 (when the string ends ofc) to get a second one (after good conditionning ofc) => it gives you more than 1 bar.
Though, this d4 being 10f would be great in melee but I fear they will nerf those advantages I just quoted.
5)Explained in my post why it would be too much unreasonable to get it 10f.
And I didn't explained this part, but which characters especially ? Kung Lao ? Mileena ? Jax ? Liu Kang ? Those characters have setups to break ANY armor wake up (excluding double armor goro and armor parry), please... (Liu Kang can fail to break Raiden's armor because timing is really strict). If you want more characters example which breaking armor is universal (not counting Mileena roll, slides and 7f starter) : JC after a grab on corner, he can dumbly do 11 if you try to wake up, if you delay it, he isn't disadvantages about recovery. Jacqui with submachine gun. SZ GM, you need to time your hit when the opponent tries to armor your klone, because yes, not all armors are unsafe on block. Goro : just dumb punchwalk on wake up, he's got 2 armors, fair enough for no TP characters.
If you put this "buff", it's like asking to change this game's rules. There are situations where you're not allowed to just do wake up armor, Goro and TP guys included.
Also, guess what, Raiden TG is the only character to destroy TP wake up and Xray wake up, but no one ever told as a Raiden it was overpowered, me included.
Before you begin to state me as a casual player, I never said it would be OP to get your changes. I just said, indirectly, that you didn't argument enough your propositions, and directly, why they are irreasonable though I would like to have some changes to not make more use of my brain in this game. Being cheated tier doesn't mean it has to be top 8 in a tournament. We just need someone to fully understand that character and make good use of his tools, which is very hard. He has too much tool with conditionning. Making him hard to be reliant on ft2 format, ft3 is the less if you want to establish your mindgame. And I don't know if you realized, it's one of the only character, out of the god tier, which can play on equal foot against god tier (no jokes) : LK's loop doesn't last endlessy, just wait him to end his pressing and you have a lot of options to get rid of it. Tanya has to be careful in her pressing, you have too much armors for her and can easily punish into restand safe 50/50 her unsafe moves. What, her pressing with special move is -3 ? She tries to pokes you just after ? db3 EX dude... I can continue the list but if I do so, someone will come back 5 days later to read it x).
Spoiler's note :
- Calling people casual and you still didn't noticed that f12b2's and f2 3+4's disappeared ? I don't even know when since it was not stated in a freaking patch, but I certainly remember f12b2 (in TG) had this gap one day.
- Please, the gap is there for something, making people do mistakes with armors. I don't even know why you would try to do it with f2, 3+4 or 3, 3+4 since the pushback is so far it is legit to consider the gap, why don't you just LRC backdash or just run to do another string (f1, b1...) or even grab if you want more mind game.
- Wouldn't say no to -7, but almost useless, the push back is here for something, also I doubt it is -13f for f2 and 3 because well, can't be punished by SZ's reversal slide.
- b2 is 13f at first. And what 9f ? , so having a 35% meterless corner isn't enough ? You miss day one Raiden too aren't you ?
- b2 up to -16f from -32f, nah it's too much, at most you can get -18f or -20f for it if you really want a buff for this move. Goro can't punish that with his bnbs. Making it like I just said would still make b2 "safe" if your opponent is sleepy. It won't change anything about being sleepy though, you can punish a -16f or a -18f.
Nah first they should remove this weird gap Raiden has in his b2, that is so... useless. What they should do is certainly buff the 1st hit's frames advantage. Why ? Your opponent can jump in, take only the first hit and THEN punish you at their wake up, because b2 recovery is damn too long.
- We don't need to bring back the old chip dmg of lightning string if the ggpo beta gets some of its new stuff in game : all strings, excluded Raiden's Lightning's strings, are down on chip dmg by 20% if I read well about it.
As a summary :
You didn't argument enough to point out the necessary side of your requested changes, those can't really be taken seriously when they could.
Still when I pointed out what went wrong with your lack of argumentation, 2 majors problems came out, which I already said in my previous post : Raiden's on hit frames advantage being too low on some moves and his recovery being too long despite you hit your opponent.
@Nivek sorry, see you in 2-4 days for your opinion x)
I have played the matchup for many games, and I don't think Johnny d4 is able to low profile ex db3...except from tip range maybe? But I don't think so, I've never seen it happen.
im pretty sure you can low profile it if you do it meaty like kotals d4.. @ganondeurf im pretty sure youre doing this on purpose!!
cya ya back on Monday my friend.. lmao
I have played the matchup for many games, and I don't think Johnny d4 is able to low profile ex db3...except from tip range maybe? But I don't think so, I've never seen it happen.
Ask @IrishMantis, he knows well about that move, he did it to me a lot in training session. The d4 must not be launched at melee range if you want db3 ex to whiff. It's just a match up situation, that happens in every game that some moves may not work against some characters. It may also whiff against Shinnok.
Edit : @Nivek, yes, there is a range where you can low profile it, all characters included. But then you don't need to do it since it's an anti poke move. The distance is like, between mid and max range of d4 of Raiden
I think Raiden is good. I think the only changes he could use are ex df2 being mid. It's just as punishable as his other wakeups with a reward that's worth it. It makes sense for ex db2 to be high since its a safe launcher. I think people need to look at it this way. Raiden has arguably one of the best high strings in the game and great run speed. It opens up his other options, without me fully explaining. In EO Beta his man weakness, imo, is constant having to outplay characters in neutral. If you are Raiden, you must maintain pressure after a kd. Which is why I have felt for a while that Displacer is his best variation, because he has the most ways to deal with the neutral
After almost 9+ hours yesterday and 2hours today, Lord Raiden looks to be back on his feet! Fixes:
f2 has better hitbox but as move isnt straight and i think is more like a get out move and a kara-antiair move(jump ins 1 character away)..but at least it doesnt whiff point blank!!
b11 is at last fixed! I was expecting that months ago!! the second hit whiffed only 2 times the whole day and that was in weird hitbox situations like after d1 max range on hit,then b11 the first hit on block and the second whiff..but ib this situation b1 shouldnt hit because of range but it did!
b1 vertically has better hitbox! In the corner for example b2(first hit)ex vincinity blast f12b2(hold) then b14-fbrc-214 was veeeery hard to land because of b1..before if you would have done it too high it would have whiffed and too low it wouldnt combo the 214!! now it has better window for the correct timing!!
Buffs:
Of course f4 is a huge buff , thanks to @GGA pimpimjim for informing us. The buff is that f4 on block is +6 and can be +9 on max range!!
F4 is a strong pressure tool and a good to go in move BUT its more than 24f now which makes it either reactable or either difficult to connect it even on block..its gold against d3s and d4s..most of the time though loses to d1s and fast high/mid strings..it does help a bit his neutral but the irony is that to get the most out of it has to be far/max range and then you dont have moves to pressure the opponent(maybe only d4 reaches)
f12 +0 on block which makes the pressure better!
f12b2 (Dis and MoS) gap removed at last!
Connection:
It is the best experience i got from a fighting game(that i play)!! im very proud for it and i recomment it
I played against USA a lot and it felt reaaaaally good..when i was playing against Europe (under 100ms) was like the opponent was next to me!!
BUT shitty connections stay shitty #onlinewarriors..and not because of the game but because of players connection!
Match ups: The only characters i fought now that felt <<ok we still need something in neutral>> was JC (f3 won almost everything i was throwing at him, even jumping was a wrong idea,and JCs d4 ofc is still good for low profile, thanks for the matches @Asodimazze) , mileena(piercing b12 all day) and liu kang(his d3 goes under Raidens d1 lol)..
Variations:
ThunderGod feels a bit more stable with f12 on +0 and f4 with plus but he needs less damage scaling on his lighting strings.. 3,2+4 , f2,2+4 , b3,2 , (b)1,1,2,2 have crazy damage scaling..even in the corner you can combo max 20% for 30/40 hits lol. and 3,4 doesnt have any reason to be used imo..none..
also d3 needs either to be safe or have more + on hit.
Displacer got his f12b2 gap buff but other than that doesnt feel any better or changed.
All the plus strings (1,1,2 / f2,2+4 and f12b2) lose their meaning because they pushblock the opponent far..even if we have + we cant use it because of the distance IMO. only d1 can interrupt/pressure at that range..
Master of @st9rmhas the orb timing buff to 20sec which help you by not to pressure yourself to attack but he fells more empty than Displacer. Again. Maybe better recovery is the solution??or armor on ex orbs??(why not??SZ has armor on ex clone)
Conclusion:
Even that he has a better f4 on block and a safer f12 doesnt change the fact that he has a weak neutral game..we still need something.. but its a good move that we have the b11 fixed.
what?
, so having a 35% meterless corner isn't enough ? You miss day one Raiden too aren't you ? 
