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Mileena General Discussion

vegeta

Saiyan Prince
I should also state I THINK why some stuff isn't coming as naturally to me is historically in the past two games let's say, I've used characters and a fighting style that is based heavily on pressure/spacing/whiff punishing at "Range" and also trapping. In MKX I used Scorpion, Sektor and Tanya and MK11 Scorpion and Frost (With frostbyte). So with mileena having the shortest range normals and lowest frames out of all of them I think that's why I'm so inconsistent with her in the neutral. I'm solid with Ashrah but part of that is because of the "Easy" dirt she has and her general range. Need to figure out how to fix that or what baits to use to get people to try to whiff on mileena. I try to play a little strike throw on occasion but people usually mash out or neutral duck too. Also I know it's situational match to match and such but where would you generally want to use your Lao hat most? Or do you guys use it in the best balance you can between neutral, making something safe and the OH/low stuff? I noted I tend to use it more to setup the OH/low or soft challenge in projectile wars
 
I should also state I THINK why some stuff isn't coming as naturally to me is historically in the past two games let's say, I've used characters and a fighting style that is based heavily on pressure/spacing/whiff punishing at "Range" and also trapping. In MKX I used Scorpion, Sektor and Tanya and MK11 Scorpion and Frost (With frostbyte). So with mileena having the shortest range normals and lowest frames out of all of them I think that's why I'm so inconsistent with her in the neutral. I'm solid with Ashrah but part of that is because of the "Easy" dirt she has and her general range. Need to figure out how to fix that or what baits to use to get people to try to whiff on mileena. I try to play a little strike throw on occasion but people usually mash out or neutral duck too. Also I know it's situational match to match and such but where would you generally want to use your Lao hat most? Or do you guys use it in the best balance you can between neutral, making something safe and the OH/low stuff? I noted I tend to use it more to setup the OH/low or soft challenge in projectile wars
She just simply has some bad matchups atm, Even the top players will truthfully tell you shes bad. Theres this Raiden Kano at my local that im basically 1-9 against with LeenaLao. Ive taken one set from him to reset grands and thats it lol. The guy plays extremely well in just about every fighter out there.. wins in Strive, Mk, plays on a hitbox... anyways, very smart player, never zones too obvious for me to down tele on react everytime, will throw out the tackle or F43 when kano is ready, very good at staying unpredictable during his turn, blocks my low hat 12 setup 95% of the time. Its really forced me to flawless block as much as possible to avoid stormcell chip or just as much chip dmg as possible. It limits my game and forces me to play slower having to bait/catch him whiffing with roll or having to grab him after at least 2-3 times a round including 20-40% of chip throughout the round to beat him on occasion.

I just wish sometimes I could back dash into f1 to punish the low profile F43 without having to delay timing or accidently throwing high sai. Sometimes its just better to reset neutral and backdash out after a combo/knockdown into oki chip dmg or grab mix. also Lao hat hold is good for baiting jump backs on wakeup to ex air roll them into another 25-30%+. If you can catch them landing with the laohat full screen you can also forward dash roll convert into another 25-30%+ with precise timing. Its not easy but its a unique full screen combo conversion that nobody else except maybe omniman in the game can do and is worth labbing for a while to get the timing consistently.

tldr she really is a bottom 10 character and you have to work harder/think alot more to succeed with her.
 
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vegeta

Saiyan Prince
She just simply has some bad matchups atm, Even the top players will truthfully tell you shes bad. Theres this Raiden Kano at my local that im basically 1-9 against with LeenaLao. Ive taken one set from him to reset grands and thats it lol. The guy plays extremely well in just about every fighter out there.. wins in Strive, Mk, plays on a hitbox... anyways, very smart player, never zones too obvious for me to down tele on react everytime, will throw out the tackle or F43 when kano is ready, very good at staying unpredictable during his turn, blocks my low hat 12 setup 95% of the time. Its really forced me to flawless block as much as possible to avoid stormcell chip or just as much chip dmg as possible. It limits my game and forces me to play slower having to bait/catch him whiffing with roll or having to grab him after at least 2-3 times a round including 20-40% of chip throughout the round to beat him on occasion.

I just wish sometimes I could back dash into f1 to punish the low profile F43 without having to delay timing or accidently throwing high sai. Sometimes its just better to reset neutral and backdash out after a combo/knockdown into oki chip dmg or grab mix. also Lao hat hold is good for baiting jump backs on wakeup to ex air roll them into another 25-30%+. If you can catch them landing with the laohat full screen you can also forward dash roll convert into another 25-30%+ with precise timing. Its not easy but its a unique full screen combo conversion that nobody else except maybe omniman in the game can do and is worth labbing for a while to get the timing consistently.

tldr she really is a bottom 10 character and you have to work harder/think alot more to succeed with her.
Ironic you said that, my training partner runs Raiden/Sektor. We played today again and he beat me like 10-3, I have so much trouble with Raiden due to his ranged normals. I switched to Kitana and Ashrah and it was almost reversed (though he doesn't know Kitana too well but the spacing game I try to play actually works with her since she reaches). Problem with me trying to reset neutral against a lot of people including him is they either then run from me and just keep me spaced out and try to bait OR they are able to chase me down with dash normals or in some cases just normals.
 

vegeta

Saiyan Prince
I just started messing with that team and they got some dirt man but good LORD what is this? LOL. That said Lao getting nerfed. Low had not plus on block up close. Wonder how much that'll change some stuff including mileena. no more free pressure. Good thing I had some other kameos in my back pocket since I knew that would inevitably happen (depending on how bad this ends up being)
 

FoughtDragon01

Ask me about my Mileena agenda.
Them teasing in the Kombat Kast that some characters will have new moves added in future patches just makes me remember that they gave Mileena Tarkatan blades that she never uses outside of two special moves. I'd kill for some normals and strings that actually utilize them.
 
Them teasing in the Kombat Kast that some characters will have new moves added in future patches just makes me remember that they gave Mileena Tarkatan blades
Do you think they'll give her a better low starter. The low hat move has been indispensable, I wonder whether its nerf affects us much. I'm curious to see what high-level players like MKMike or Hourglass do now.

Seems like Mileena is about conditioning your opponent to block low w/ her strings like F1,44 and F2.4,3 and then catching them with her devastating combos out of 1,2. It could be a great win condition if we had some variety of strings. could they make ball a low or would that be oppressive?
 
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vegeta

Saiyan Prince
Do you think they'll give her a better low starter. The low hat move has been indispensable, I wonder whether its nerf affects us much. I'm curious to see what high-level players like MKMike or Hourglass do now.

Seems like Mileena is about conditioning your opponent to block low w/ her strings like F1,44 and F2.4,3 and then catching them with her devastating combos out of 1,2. It could be a great win condition if we had some variety of strings. could they make ball a low or would that be oppressive?
The "conditioning" for 12 only really works up to a certain level (When considering offline). The F4 she has hits more in that regard because it's just an outright OH and if you condition them with specific movements/tactics you can squeeze one it. I hit and see 12 hit more as a punish or whiff punish (or if it was setup with Lao hat). But to me I think she just needs maybe one more low plus move on block or something. and make the sai's go a bit further. Maybe make her EX BF1 one bar instead of two since for the most part tons of people up block it now. They just changed Subs ice clone to be 1 or 2 bars.

That said I've been looking into stryker which fills in some of those "holes" I was talking about and he's got direct OH/Low mixup and plus. In addition to that new tech that was posted in here a while ago it's a pretty devastating team
 

FoughtDragon01

Ask me about my Mileena agenda.
Do you think they'll give her a better low starter. The low hat move has been indispensable, I wonder whether its nerf affects us much. I'm curious to see what high-level players like MKMike or Hourglass do now.

Seems like Mileena is about conditioning your opponent to block low w/ her strings like F1,44 and F2.4,3 and then catching them with her devastating combos out of 1,2. It could be a great win condition if we had some variety of strings. could they make ball a low or would that be oppressive?
Hourglass said in his stream that he doesn't believe the nerf affects Mileena that much, and I can see why. Low Hat's strongest utility was never the +2, most people just mashed after it anyway. The neutral control, its use as a projectile, and its setplay are all still intact and that's what makes Mileena so good with it. The nerf just further enforces a sort of 'hit-and-run' playstyle for her rather than using Low Hat to stay in the opponent's face like a budget Johnny Cage.

As for new moves, I don't see NRS creating brand new animations, but they could possibly use the 4 in her F24 string as a possible low starter, but that doesn't seem likely. I'd love it if they changed F1 to B1 so that we can use it to shimmy without fear of accidentally getting Sai Toss. Maybe make her F2 faster so it's a more effective footsie tool. Or maybe make it a mid since it's 18 frames. I'd also like to see her Low Sai recover faster. There's some potential dirt with other Kameos that just isn't possible right now because of the long recovery.

As for Roll being a low, I'd have LOVED that back in MKX, hell, even MK11, but in this game? Nah, that'd be broken-broken. They'd probably have to compensate by nerfing 12 into a mid instead of overhead so that we couldn't use assists to make our full combo 50/50s safe lol.
 
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projectzero00

nomnomnom
As for Roll being a low, I'd have LOVED that back in MKX, hell, even MK11, but in this game? Nah, that'd be broken-broken. They'd probably have to compensate by nerfing 12 into a mid instead of overhead so that we couldn't use assists to make our full combo 50/50s safe lol.
Agreed. As much as I'd love that, it would be the most OP move in the game. A (pretty much) full screen range special that's low and juggles would be nuts. Especially since she has 2 overheads in her strings, it would be too deadly to guess wrong against her. The main things I'd want for her (but doubt we're getting) are:
  1. Fixing how her reversal will literally whiff on an opponent that's slightly moving forward. That shit wastes one bar AND will get you punished for guessing right on your opponent trynna pressure you.
  2. Giving her full screen projectiles. I still don't get why she out of all characters doesn't have one.
  3. Making her ex-sai not cost 2 bars. That shit lost its element of surprise the 2nd week, so now it will just waste your bars for no reason.
  4. Making her ball roll have better recovery on whiff. If they won't give her full-screen projectiles, she needs a good tool to get close on projectile-spammers (looking at you Reiko). All her tools are so punishable, so at least fullscreen ball roll could get you up to their face to start some closeup pressure, but even that has terrible recovery and will get you punished too.
  5. Making her ex-airball and extended ex-airball have some use.
 

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
Agreed. As much as I'd love that, it would be the most OP move in the game. A (pretty much) full screen range special that's low and juggles would be nuts. Especially since she has 2 overheads in her strings, it would be too deadly to guess wrong against her. The main things I'd want for her (but doubt we're getting) are:
  1. Fixing how her reversal will literally whiff on an opponent that's slightly moving forward. That shit wastes one bar AND will get you punished for guessing right on your opponent trynna pressure you.
  2. Giving her full screen projectiles. I still don't get why she out of all characters doesn't have one.
  3. Making her ex-sai not cost 2 bars. That shit lost its element of surprise the 2nd week, so now it will just waste your bars for no reason.
  4. Making her ball roll have better recovery on whiff. If they won't give her full-screen projectiles, she needs a good tool to get close on projectile-spammers (looking at you Reiko). All her tools are so punishable, so at least fullscreen ball roll could get you up to their face to start some closeup pressure, but even that has terrible recovery and will get you punished too.
  5. Making her ex-airball and extended ex-airball have some use.
Agree on the projectiles, even if gave one of them, like leave low as in and make straight one full screen

But i disagree on ex-air sai.
I use that move a ton!
Awesome jump back whiff punish tool, ex-airsai-air sai, roll, j22-airsai Very good vs alot of projectiles aswell.


Is kinda tricky that only cancels on hit so you cant really buffer the air sai cancel so easy to miss, especially if online
 

vegeta

Saiyan Prince
Yeah that irked me when I first started playing her. I was like WHY the HELL does she not have full screen sai? Like what? It also limited her a bit since everyone runs Lao with her for both the full screen projectile harassments and the setups but overall they put all these measures in place for like...........what? Also the shimmy thing. I'm still like (even after decades) BD notation for her sucks because I'll try to backdash and do like a d+4 as a trip guard or poke and forget it counts as a buffer and ball roll comes out and I die. Same with Sai on occasion when I backdash and do F1. I dunno I still think she could use a few more tweaks, some that were mentioned already now that NRS's random "fear" has been proven wrong about her.

I still think give her something that's plus on block. I'll even take +1 but just SOMETHING to keep some pressure if you really need it. I've reverted back to my Original Team with Sektor and she has pretty solid pressure with him but regardless of her being paired with him or Lao I still feel like I'm working so much harder than when I play someone like Ashrah. My issue is just legit opening people up without putting my own head on a chopping block. I especially hate fighting characters like Li Mei, I always said Li Mei seems like what Mileena SHOULD have been. All she's missing is a TP and a roll lol. Like you wanna fight up close but Li Mei can do it better because of all her stupid plus, and her zoning is OD too. Could just be a matchup thing but even when I used her but tried to play like I play Mileena I was wrecking people and didn't even fully know the character.
 

vegeta

Saiyan Prince
OH that's the other thing, dunno bout you guys but I think the "Active" frames on her ball roll should start a bit sooner. Can't tell you how many times I use it to try to anti air a jump in or projectile even off a hard read and I'M the one who gets hit. You even see the purple aura around her already and I'm like.........................ok.
 

vegeta

Saiyan Prince
What kinda dirt you guys finding with Khameleon? I just got to sit down and mess with some stuff. For my part going over one disguise at a time to figure stuff out. I'm sure there's a TON of OD stuff but here's just a few things I figured out with the Kitana variant (which is what I'm still trying to lab)

 

FoughtDragon01

Ask me about my Mileena agenda.
I can record some examples when I get home, but Mileena can combo off of all sorts of things like her armored special and her overhead F4 by canceling into Close Fan Lift and immediately doing Air Ball Roll for about 24% meterless, iirc.

She honestly gets some pretty good mix in all three forms. OH/Low mix with KhamKit and KhamMil, and scary Strike/Throw off of KhamJade's Glaive if they don't jump out. And if they do jump out, they risk getting anti-air'd lol. I'm calling it early, but I think Khameleon's gonna be one of Mileena's best kameos, right alongside Kung Lao.
 
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FoughtDragon01

Ask me about my Mileena agenda.
Okay, so I've done some labbing, and I REALLY like what Khameleon has to offer our girl. I've gone through all three of her forms and tried to figure out some dirt, and I've gotta say, while individually, there's no 'Low Hat Vortex' levels of filth, there's some stuff here that, when combined, makes Mileena even more annoying to play against than she already is.

MILEENA FORM
This feels like the most basic and straighforward of the three forms. It's biggest strength by a country mile is the fact that it gives Mileena 50/50s off of literally any blockstring. Along with any natural low in her strings (F24, F144), she can use EX Low Sai into Air Sai assist to enforce a guess between either that or KhamMil's ungodly fast overhead Roll. The pushback on the Roll will definitely be a gimmick until people figure out how to punish it properly, but it's still funny seeing people whiff their punishes.


KITANA FORM
Yeah, Fan Lift lets Mileena combo off of things that she has no business comboing off of. Combo off of Low Sai, combo off of 21 1+3, combo off of Ex Down Telekick, and if you time it correctly, she can even get a combo off of her F4.

Worth noting that all of these combos use Close Fan Lift.

The main downside with these is that they all require some pretty intense finger dexterity in order to pull them off, but fortunately, these aren't what I consider to be the biggest strength of this form. No, that would be the throw combo. Not only does it do an impressive 24.5%, but it plays into something that I'll get into near the end of this post. Whereas KhamMil specializes in OH/Low 50/50s, KhamKit gives Mileena a very scary Strike/Throw mix that most kameos can't offer her, and it is far more reliable and far less expensive than the ones that can.

Oh, and here's an extra something if you ever want to play like a true degenerate. Use Far Fan Lift:


EDIT: Oh, wow. I just found this out. You can also combo off of meterless Up Telekick with Far Fan Lift. I think it keeps you safe on block too:


JADE FORM
This is the form that sold me on this entire kameo because it deals with two of Mileena's biggest weaknesses: her lack of solid space control, and her subpar projectiles. Glaive has got to be one of the biggest fuck-yous to neutral that I've seen in this game, and it fits Mileena like a glove. Pop on Glow to negate projectiles, move in to about round start distance, throw Glaive, and now your opponent has to make a choice. Either they jump out after the first hit and risk getting anti-air'd for 30% minimum, they risk the armored reversal, or they just hold it and have to guess between strike or throw follow-up. You'll be close enough at roughly round start distance to dash in and frame trap with F1 or even jail with S1 if you're fast enough.

Speaking of Glaive, here's a cheeky 45% combo for no super meter. The trick is to input F1xxBall Roll literally as close to frame 1 as you're able to, otherwise you won't hit at the same time as the glaive:


With all of that said, I wanna offer what I think could prove to be an effective way to use this kameo with Mileena, considering how new Khameleon still is:

SEQUENCES:
Due to Khameleon's timed rotations, one of the first things I wanted to get a better hold of was how to get the most bang for my buck without getting screwed over by an unfortunate form switch mid-combo. After a few hours, I think I've found something that touches on the strengths I've mentioned above for all three forms, so this is that basic concept I worked out.

This first one relies on starting with KhamJade, and only works once the opponent's been conditioned to stop jumping out of Glaive:

And here's an example of what you can do if they do try and jump out of Glaive:

This one starts with KhamKit:

This last one starts with KhamMil:

EDIT #2: I've also found sequences that work off of punishes. Starter can be anything you want, but the trick is to input Back+Kameo so that you'll switch over to the next form. That way, you'll have the maximum amount of time to work with while also minimizing the chances of getting an unexpected form switch:

Starts with KhamMil:

Starts with KhamJade:

Starts with KhamKit:


Again, I am very, very happy with this kameo, and we've only just scratched the surface of what she has to offer. I'm not exaggerating when I say that she's probably one of Mileena's best kameos right now. Depending on how she develops, she might even dethrone Lao as #1. Better enjoy her now, because it ain't gonna be long before this chick gets hit with nerfs lol.
 
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1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
Really digging khameleon with mileena.

Was always jealous of people who have there fav chars as kameos and full cast
Ie sub zero/sub zero etc etc

So to be able to play mileena/mileena partly is awesome to me haha.
The mix when she has mileena kameo is something else aswell, dead on block yea but still very nice
(Saying that they should prob reduce pushback on a blocked roll,)

Ill still keep mileena/lao for some matches i think though
 

Lifted

Noob
I keep reading distinct opinions about her gameplay, but I think the general consensus is that she's mid/B-tier, right?