Match-up Discussion MK2 Scorpion VS Sub Zero

VS

Rules of this discussion:

• You may contribute anything that will further the interest and understanding of the matchup. This includes strategies, videos, combos, etc.
• Feel free to answer the default questions posed in the first reply, though you are not required to do so.
• Please keep the discussion focused on the two characters in question.

Much like Ryu VS Ken in SF, this classic matchup defines Mortal Kombat for the entire series, at least in terms of the story. People are always willing to go a few rounds with these guys. Unfortunately, the ninja warriors are low on the tier list, with Scorpion barely cracking into the lower mid-tier.

Scorpion has a definite advantage if both characters decide to turtle in this match. Scorpion can wait for a freeze and then teleport punch away all day. He really negates Sub's ability to jump in as well. If Sub jumps from full screen, toss a spear (or double if far enough) and land the free uppercut. Should be obvious, but don't spam the spear or you will get frozen eventually. Counter slides with an uppercut and RH all jump-ins.

Sub has to go on the offensive here, unless he gets a life lead. If you do get a lead, back away and stand block, ready to punish the incoming teleport or of course aaRH the incoming jump-in. Expect a lot of teleports here, so be ready to freeze and punish with an uppercut. Also make liberal use of the ground freeze. I often play Scorpions who love to teleport in this match, so I toss an ice puddle then laugh as they teleport right onto the ice for a free uppercut. That aside, it's best to stay grounded here as Scorpion has a lot of nasty aa surprises, including the not-too-used air throw.

Scorp has the advantage with his ability to frustrate and get out of danger with the telepunch. He takes it 6-4.

autofire? how the hell could Scorpion benefit from an autofire? I am amazed by the insane things you write- I hope no one actually believes them.

Ok now to contribute to this without posting anything crazy...
I still can't get over...did he really just say online Scorpion players cheat with an autofire THROW? lol. First he says Kitana is #1 on the tier list, now this... folks if you want to learn MK2, please just disregard anything gamemk says.

I remember reading someone said (Fooz?) that if two elite players play Scorpion vs Sub-Zero, Sub-Zero will always win. I laugh about that, because that is never the case when I play online. Scorpion is the best of the 3 ninjas, and he has an advantage in this match, though not too overwhelmingly.

SUBZERO:
This is a fun match for Subz because he can actually be somewhat aggressive. Ninja vs Ninja is always fun CQC because they all are weak up close, but it's still exciting. I would not recommend turtling with Sub-Zero in this match. If you stay back and freeze spam, Scorpion will just telepunch.

SCORPION:
Scorpion has more options in this- he can turtle or be aggressive. So the match is more in his hands. Though if you're going to play the CQC game with Subz you gotta always be watching for that floor ice.

I'd agree it's a 6-4 match for Scorpion. Both players have to work to win. It's a classic matchup for sure, and one that is always entertaining.

I actually think Sub is a slight favorite in this match up. Once you've established yourself with the slide, getting in becomes easier. Those random spears gamemk was talking about are useless against a turtling Sub because you'll just get slid on. I just feel like one mistake by scorpion and the match is over. Imho, Sub can make a mistake and still bounce back.

Sub is the favorite in this match, I can beat all the elite scorpions 7-3 in this match, forcing scorp to jump around is a must, and then control the match from there. I will turtle or be aggressive depending on who I play. A classic match for sure! I always enjoy a nice sub vs scorp match! "El Mat Ta Dor 81" is my fav opponent!

Sub0's-Icy-Balls said:

Sub is the favorite in this match, I can beat all the elite scorpions 7-3 in this match, forcing scorp to jump around is a must, and then control the match from there. I will turtle or be aggressive depending on who I play. A classic match for sure! I always enjoy a nice sub vs scorp match! "El Mat Ta Dor 81" is my fav opponent!

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I'm sorry, but when have you ever beat an elite Scorpion 7-3 in this matchup?

I play that match up all the time against 17 and 1800 rated scorps and I win 70% of the time, I'm not talking about you, you are a damn freak of nature and I would probably be 1-50 against you, if that.

Sub0's-Icy-Balls said:

I play that match up all the time against 17 and 1800 rated scorps and I win 70% of the time, I'm not talking about you, you are a damn freak of nature and I would probably be 1-50 against you, if that.

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You do make a good point though. You are winning the majority of your matches against Scorpions of a similar skill level to you, which is what these threads are all about.

MIKECALDWELL said:

I'm sorry, but when have you ever beat an elite Scorpion 7-3 in this matchup?

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Mike, I'm curious what elite Sub-Zero's would be able to beat your Scorp 6-4 in this matchup? I'm sure you know this match better than I do, it's just in my experience, Scorpion usually wins it. I'd imagine a Scorpion like yours wouldn't have any trouble with bottom tier.

mortal_jason said:

Mike, I'm curious what elite Sub-Zero's would be able to beat your Scorp 6-4 in this matchup? I'm sure you know this match better than I do, it's just in my experience, Scorpion usually wins it. I'd imagine a Scorpion like yours wouldn't have any trouble with bottom tier.

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We need to get real_talk718 in here for this one. I'm sure he would give my Scorpion hell with Sub. I can't give you any specific examples that have actually happened though.

CYracks said:

I think Scorpion takes this match up 6-4 vs sub. He can easily out turtle sub and if you want to see top sub vs top scorp going at it watch this: (video removed)

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This is an MK2 discussion.

gamemk, mortal_jason, and MIKECALDWELL
Although some good points are being brought up about cheating, autofire, etc, your discourse here and a couple other threads has the scent of trolling all over it. I'm gonna ask that any personal attacks be left to PM or just removed from conversation. I don't like to warn friends and longtime acquaintances, but if necessary I will. Thanks

MKillBill said:

This is an MK2 discussion.

gamemk, mortal_jason, and MIKECALDWELL
Although some good points are being brought up about cheating, autofire, etc, your discourse here and a couple other threads has the scent of trolling all over it. I'm gonna ask that any personal attacks be left to PM or just removed from conversation. I don't like to warn friends and longtime acquaintances, but if necessary I will. Thanks

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lol my bad

Apologies if I sounded a bit abrasive....

But I'm making no personal attacks, and definitely not trolling- just pointing out how ridiculous is it to say people "autofire throw" with Scorpion. You hit block to air throw with Scorpion, why would you need to autofire that?

I don't argue with the fact that lag is a huge problem for MK2. However, I'd never accuse someone of using "a lag switch". No one WANTS lag in this game. Lag is the problem of the game/server itself, or someone's bad internet. As Kevin592c said to me this week, "We can put a man on the moon, but can't play a 20 year old video game without lagging..."

I've been playing on PS3 for 2 years now. I've played David Gem, Dciguy, btbb99, Realtalk, yungnicca, dookiebrain, ectonaut, Cuko, and Kensi.
Those guys are all still on my friends list, all cool guys that I respect. I do very well against all of them. When I was new to PS3, btbb99 and RealTalk both killed me. But that's what made me a strong player, and later on I got them back . Win or lose, those guys are all good sports. Unlike other people I play, who message me after they win 1 match out of 50, and use profanity to get across their point that I'm a "cheater".

MIKECALDWELL said:

We need to get real_talk718 in here for this one. I'm sure he would give my Scorpion hell with Sub. I can't give you any specific examples that have actually happened though.

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True, his Sub-Zero is a beast... but I actually think your Sub is a little tougher. If only we could see your Sub vs your Scorpion... haha

Honestly I think this is 6-4 Scorpion. He has more options, and his tools works well against Sub-Zero. Sub-Zero always has his Ice Puddle in close range, so you have to be smart when you get aggressive.

You'll always get your Sub-Zero players who say the MU depends on skill....of course! It's still 6-4 no matter how you slice it, but 6-4 is only SLIGHT advantage.

K.O.E_18 said:

Honestly I think this is 6-4 Scorpion. He has more options, and his tools works well against Sub-Zero. Sub-Zero always has his Ice Puddle in close range, so you have to be smart when you get aggressive.

You'll always get your Sub-Zero players who say the MU depends on skill....of course! It's still 6-4 no matter how you slice it, but 6-4 is only SLIGHT advantage.

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You guys will have to prove me wrong then. My sub isn't that great, but I'll test this with someone's scorpion.

MIKECALDWELL said:

You guys will have to prove me wrong then. My sub isn't that great, but I'll test this with someone's scorpion.

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If I ever get gold again I'll play lol.

K.O.E_18 said:

If I ever get gold again I'll play lol.

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You're on xbl right? Just get mkak.

edit* Oh you meant a gold account right?

MIKECALDWELL said:

You're on xbl right? Just get mkak.

edit* Oh you meant a gold account right?

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Yeah, my account is silver at the moment lol

Scorpion has the "safe" Teleport ranges that get him in prime position to sweep for chip damage. Sub-Zero does not have any way to safely get in range to do this and has to chase Scorpion down once he is down on life.

Easier to chip and get life lead award goes to Scorpion and why I say 6-4 Scorpion.

I'd have to change my initial 6-4 for Scorpion assessment and say that I now believe this to be a 5-5 match.
It's one of the most balanced matches in MK2. I still prefer Scorpion in it, myself.

Updated the initial strat post to break down each character individually.

@MKB

Here's @mortal_jason's take:

Revy said:

@MKB

Here's @mortal_jason's take:

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Yeah pretty consistent with what he wrote all those years ago. I would love to call this a 50/50 match given its popularity, but Scorpion's telepunch gives him an edge no doubt.