Joker 1.03 Patch Thoughts (from a actual joker player)

[Cat]

f2, 1

it's a good string, but still there's no reason to do anything but block high since b1,3 is more annoying than scary.

Also, shoutouts to how awful b2 is? 20 something startup frame overhead that leads to nothing and knocks away to full screen. lol

I love B2!!! It's not good but the animation is tight. Lol.
I been finding few uses for it. Mostly after a jump in 2 is blocked I go into b2 and ppl get hit a lot because they crouch block as soon as they block the jump in. Sometimes I do b1 flowe after a jump in to condition them so I can just land this sweet move.


Also something I'm working on from my guide.

• depending on your stance flower pushes back less or farther. As well as the advantage on it being on one stance and not the other.

Ex: do 21 flower with the regular stance (jokers front body facing you) on block and do b1 after (21 is plus. So it's a frame trap) and see if the b1 connects

Now switch stance and do the same thing and see if b1 connects or whiffs.

You can notice the difference in the pushback. You want to do the one with less pushback in order to be able to connect strings after.

If you do the 21 string on one stance and superman does f2. And you do b1 to frame punish. He will beat you out depending on the stance. Since one seems to grant advantage over the other one. Might also be since his flower is farther away on the other stance

Note: jump in attacks switch your stance.

 

[Cat]

MBing the teeth for an unblockable when trait is up is a good idea. It's balanced because if you make a read with parry you are playing very good and deserve a big combo. If they used an unsafe string or special and you parry it that is great. 25-30% parry damage would be as good as having the reset. Even better because the damage is up front.

Ya that stuff of whiffs on 212, 21, and possibly the worst b2 is awful lol.

Yeah you make a good read and still need a bar to mb the teeth.

B2 is pretty bad. I just like the animation. Wish it was like 12 frames

 

[Cat]

The suggestion of making the HAs manually activated is a good idea. But i wanna add a little something.

Add a parry against jumping attacks, special moves like Black Adam "foot dive" and similar. The timing is already very strict but makes his trait more threatening compared to Bats/KF, has another anti-air besides d2, and basically gives him more control against pressure. Obviusly this could mean that the HAs and/or the damage might get nerfed since Joker becomes harder to hit.

Another option is to add a "wager" parry. Meter burning so can parry in the middle of a combo. The meter cost could be higher than a normal Meter Burn though (2-3 stocks maybe?). As alternative, the HAs might work as the cost, but doesn't give a HA if it connects.

Jump in parry would be nice. It would make him a bigger threat overall. If you Mistime the parry or a opponent does a empty jump to bait it. You will get full combo punished.

He has no AA and all his wake ups lose to jump ins. So it will help him a great deal

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Jump in parry would be nice. It would make him a bigger threat overall. If you Mistime the parry or a opponent does a empty jump to bait it. You will get full combo punished.

He has no AA and all his wake ups lose to jump ins. So it will help him a great deal

He has no AA wake-up, but I think d2 is pretty solid for AA and can lead into combos/resets. I guess it's a tad slow, but I think it does pretty well.

 

[SunLord5]

Another idea of a buff is once you get to 3 ha's you can pushblock that deals 20% damage for free and you can stack ha's when not touching the opponent.

 

[Dracain]

I posted this in another thread, but thought I would post it here. I thought that an interesting idea would be if Joker gained HAs by throwing exploding playing cards instead, kind of like how Johnny gains levels with mist finer in GG by throwing coins. I think this would be better both mechanically, and fit the character better. What do you think?

 

[shogunoflive]

"Lol what a joke of a trait. " - Cat

Finally someone gets it

 

[Cat]

I posted this in another thread, but thought I would post it here. I thought that an interesting idea would be if Joker gained HAs by throwing exploding playing cards instead, kind of like how Johnny gains levels with mist finer in GG by throwing coins. I think this would be better both mechanically, and fit the character better. What do you think?

Reminds me of his throwing cards in mkvsdc. That be a neat idea but probably too significant of a change for them to implement it :/

 

[Dracain]

Reminds me of his throwing cards in mkvsdc. That be a neat idea but probably too significant of a change for them to implement it :/

What if they changed it into some sort of grab instead? I still think the cards could work, but a grab is another option.

 

[Necrophia]

The cards if implemented could increase a tiny bit of "HA meter" so is not just keepaway spamming cards until hit three times. But still Joker has good enough with his gun and the 1.03 rolling gas tank as projectiles.

Thinking about it, giving him a way to fill a HA meter with certain attacks or combos he already owns while the parry fills a full HA as already does, might improve the trait overall. Like a gas tank hit fills 2/10 of a single HA, gun gives 1/10, the parry already gets a full HA...

 

[Dracain]

The cards if implemented could increase a tiny bit of "HA meter" so is not just keepaway spamming cards until hit three times. But still Joker has good enough with his gun and the 1.03 rolling gas tank as projectiles.

Thinking about it, giving him a way to fill a HA meter with certain attacks or combos he already owns while the parry fills a full HA as already does, might improve the trait overall. Like a gas tank hit fills 2/10 of a single HA, gun gives 1/10, the parry already gets a full HA...

Another idea would be that the trait activates the HA bar, and you can activate it at any time, but the more the bar is filled up, the longer it lasts.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

They aren't going to completely rework the trait. That's just not something they do. These are some cool ideas (I'm diggin the cards thing, I always felt like he was missing something with cards) but some sound like they could be a bit overpowered and weird to implement. I think the best we can hope for is more frames that the parry is active for and maybe it working against more moves. Hopefully these things get addressed in the near future so that the thing is actually worth using...

 

[Dracain]

They aren't going to completely rework the trait. That's just not something they do. These are some cool ideas (I'm diggin the cards thing, I always felt like he was missing something with cards) but some sound like they could be a bit overpowered and weird to implement. I think the best we can hope for is more frames that the parry is active for and maybe it working against more moves. Hopefully these things get addressed in the near future so that the thing is actually worth using...

Characters have had MASSIVE reworks in fighting games before. Look at Hazama in BB:CS. He got a huge change from when the game first released and later on. I had to learn to change my playstyle, but I understand why they did it. To be honest, the card idea would be a lesser change then what happened to Hazama, because with Hazama the whole playstyle needed reworking. We hardly use the trait now, so it would just mean the trait wouldn't suck, not to mention, it doesn't need to do that much damage, because it builds HAs as well.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Characters have had MASSIVE reworks in fighting games before. Look at Hazama in BB:CS. He got a huge change from when the game first released and later on. I had to learn to change my playstyle, but I understand why they did it. To be honest, the card idea would be a lesser change then what happened to Hazama, because with Hazama the whole playstyle needed reworking. We hardly use the trait now, so it would just mean the trait wouldn't suck, not to mention, it doesn't need to do that much damage, because it builds HAs as well.

Not familiar with BB:CS, but I'm referring specifically to NRS. I can't recall a time when they have done anything beyond changing frames, whether moves were high/mid/low/overhead/etc, hit boxes, and things on that order. Could be wrong though.

I do really like the idea of using cards though. Would be awesome if they did something like that, just not sure how it would be done. Maybe a slow moving projectile like reptiles balls that you could run past and apply pressure while it approaches? Something like that would be interesting, but might be a little broken. Depends...

 

[DaiHuu]

Reminds me of his throwing cards in mkvsdc. That be a neat idea but probably too significant of a change for them to implement it :/

Did you play Joker in Mkvsdcu? If so, I respect you so much for your character loyalty. O.O;;

 

[Necrophia]

We have to keep on mind though that his trait is the only one with a defensive purpose overall. Characters like Superman, GL, or Bane can easily obtain a temporal boost even during a combo, while Joker has to risk to be comboed for get a brief speed boost. Due how timed his parry asks to be and how the rest of the cast can easily go arround their traits with no problem, he should get alternatives for get HAs or simply buff the parry so has more chances to connect beyond a charging Bane or Doomsday.

Joker overall is good of course, but is obvius that the trait needs a serious treatment. Until then he has limited tools compared to the rest of the cast.

 

[laudanum09]

We should try and get a consensus going. It will make our case stronger overall when NRS reads through this (hopefully).

Without going into specifics this is like the broad mindset of what I'm thinking about when considering Trait buffs:

• Keeping Has the same: If Ha's keep the same properties, Parry needs to not only be safe but easy to land, at least easy enough to get 3-5 on average per game or whatever other characters with 1 button buffs get per game.
• Keeping Parry the same: If parry stays the same, Has need to be buffed tremendously considering it is highly unlikely to land more than 1 parry per game and even that is a rarity. Access to MB specials, damage boost, speed boost etc. That's kinda dumb though and shows how awful parry is if we need to go to this extreme just to be balanced.
• Changes to both Parry and Has: Parry should be easier to land but not as easy as Superman derp push a button get a huge stat buff mid combo. Has should do more than speed boost, i.e. stack and activate with Trait+MB button.
• Overall as a TRAIT, parry should be the most unique, useful parry in the game. No question about that. Right now it's the WORST parry in the game. Ha's are also quite possibly the WORST stat buff in the game.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

We should try and get a consensus going. It will make our case stronger overall when NRS reads through this (hopefully).

Without going into specifics this is like the broad mindset of what I'm thinking about when considering Trait buffs:

• Keeping Has the same: If Ha's keep the same properties, Parry needs to not only be safe but easy to land, at least easy enough to get 3-5 on average per game or whatever other characters with 1 button buffs get per game.
• Keeping Parry the same: If parry stays the same, Has need to be buffed tremendously considering it is highly unlikely to land more than 1 parry per game and even that is a rarity. Access to MB specials, damage boost, speed boost etc. That's kinda dumb though and shows how awful parry is if we need to go to this extreme just to be balanced.
• Changes to both Parry and Has: Parry should be easier to land but not as easy as Superman derp push a button get a huge stat buff mid combo. Has should do more than speed boost, i.e. stack and activate with Trait+MB button.
• Overall as a TRAIT, parry should be the most unique, useful parry in the game. No question about that. Right now it's the WORST parry in the game. Ha's are also quite possibly the WORST stat buff in the game.

Good idea, and good points. I think the best thing to do is to make it a little easier to land and just remove the whole stacking concepts. Instead, have it result in a more midline speed boost (maybe the boost from 2 HAs) and something else to make HA actually threated, whether it's altering what certain moves do slightly, boosting damage slightly, or something else.

 

[laudanum09]

Good idea, and good points. I think the best thing to do is to make it a little easier to land and just remove the whole stacking concepts. Instead, have it result in a more midline speed boost (maybe the boost from 2 HAs) and something else to make HA actually threated, whether it's altering what certain moves do slightly, boosting damage slightly, or something else.

Sounds good to me, I think the best is to buff the parry itself and buff the Has to do a little more or something different than what it does now.

Either way, Parry needs to be reasonably easy to use so that we can practically get at least 2-3 per game. Guesswork and risks should be for major reward and I don't want some huge gdlk buff to Has so parries should be easy to get and safe as an option so long as Has just give him modest stat and property changes.

 

[Cat]

The cards if implemented could increase a tiny bit of "HA meter" so is not just keepaway spamming cards until hit three times. But still Joker has good enough with his gun and the 1.03 rolling gas tank as projectiles.

Thinking about it, giving him a way to fill a HA meter with certain attacks or combos he already owns while the parry fills a full HA as already does, might improve the trait overall. Like a gas tank hit fills 2/10 of a single HA, gun gives 1/10, the parry already gets a full HA...

You know. When I first heard of the trait. I thought he would get the boost off moves that make him laugh.

Laughing gas (why does this not give a ha? Lol)

Grabs.

And the parry

Laughing gas to be limit to only the one he throws in the air. As it is slower and harder to hit ppl with outside of a combo.

 

[laudanum09]

You know. When I first heard of the trait. I thought he would get the boost off moves that make him laugh.

Laughing gas (why does this not give a ha? Lol)

Grabs.

And the parry

Laughing gas to be limit to only the one he throws in the air. As it is slower and harder to hit ppl with outside of a combo.

Makes me think of Frank West in UMVC3 where depending on the amount of hits per combo, he 'levels up' after he ends a combo with a photo.

 

[Cat]

Did you play Joker in Mkvsdcu? If so, I respect you so much for your character loyalty. O.O;;

He was my main in that game. With sub and Kano being secondaries.
His parry was so much better in that game. And his unblockable bombs were nice.

 

[Qwark28]

You know what I would've wanted? Gas bombs to be actually used during zoning. Make em 20something frames and roll much faster so they can actually be used if they're made not too - on block.

Normal gas tanks only use is scream yolo and throw it out hoping it hits superman or wonderman in the face during flight

 

[Cat]

Sounds good to me, I think the best is to buff the parry itself and buff the Has to do a little more or something different than what it does now.

Either way, Parry needs to be reasonably easy to use so that we can practically get at least 2-3 per game. Guesswork and risks should be for major reward and I don't want some huge gdlk buff to Has so parries should be easy to get and safe as an option so long as Has just give him modest stat and property changes.

The stacking of Has to use whenever is probably the easiest buff to implement in my opinion.

I feel they just rushed to buff it by doing the same thing as banes trait. Adding buff timing and more damage (instead of taking less damage like banes).

They thought it be the easiest (laziest) fix , but avoided the entire reason why the trait is bad (it's not easy to land!!)

Adding frames for it to connect should help. But not where he is able to get whiff punished for free.

In mk vs dc.
Jokers parry had a good window. And while it was out the parry was active. So even if you got hit late as he is finishing his parry animation, it will still parry. So it was basically hard to whiff punish since it was active the entire time and when done, he was able to block instantly.

This can be a great way to make his parry able to land more. Opponent can still punish by doing the right string (you do standing parry, they punish with a low starter, you do low parry , they punish with a mid, high, overhead, etc )

 

[Cat]

You know what I would've wanted? Gas bombs to be actually used during zoning. Make em 20something frames and roll much faster so they can actually be used if they're made not too - on block.

Normal gas tanks only use is scream yolo and throw it out hoping it hits superman or wonderman in the face during flight

Me and scar call the flying tank special move. That troll tank.
Usually use it to troll someone and kill them in a humiliating way (cus getting hit in the head with a gas tank is hilarious ) lol