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F Champ Receives Lifetime Ban, Racism in the FGC/USA, and Other Prevalent Social Discussions

Pangolin-man

My trusty sidekick is not amused!
I really am sorry about my posts on the Civil War, I shouldn't have posted on something I haven't learned about since 5th grade history class. @Pangolin-man @CrimsonShadow I am sorry, I hope yall can forgive my ignorance on the subject, I will spend some time reading up on the actual history instead of the censored version I learned in school. I still have my doubts about how realistic some of the gun subjects crimson and i were debating are but he and I are both smart guys and I can agree to disagree, I still respect him quite a bit.

I thought about deleting my civil war posts but I won't because I bet I am not the only one ignorant on the subject and perhaps other readers can learn from my mistake.

I appreciate your apology. It is big of you to admit a mistake. No worries. I respect someone who can admit they are wrong. If I make a mistake, I always attempt to admit it as well. Once again, no worries.
 

Pangolin-man

My trusty sidekick is not amused!
When you live in the far-left Internet bubble, I can understand how reading different points of view may seem like trolling, but I assure you that I would not troll about political, economic, and social issues that affect millions of people.

I appreciate your research, but you still failed to offer any examples that are as consequential and as prevalent as today's examples with Kaepernick and the NBA. I ask again. When before in sports history have the playoff games of a major league been canceled for a week because players objected to a police shooting?

You previously asked when has American sports been this political. I gave you 5 life stories of instances that were just as or even more political. As I said before, kneeling during the national anthem is not the only form that politics can take. What makes canceling some games more political than riots that lead to dozens of deaths like in the Jack Johnson case?

I can now also add Moving the Goalpost statements to your neverending logical fallacies. You asked to provide examples of politics in American sports and I give them to you. You then ignore those examples and say where in sports history have games been canceled for a week. A completely different topic. Your arguments are an entire school of red herrings swimming furiously towards moving goalposts.

Boxy and Itsyaboi give you countless examples about Right-wing demagogues and ask you to provide Left-wing counter examples. Yet, you can't do it.

Everybody commits logical fallacies but reading your posts is like playing Logical Fallacy Bingo.

By the way, I think it is funny that the first thing you do is spew generic right-wing canned phrases from somebody's Youtube channel. Far-left Internet bubble. If you think what the people writing on here is Far-left, you clearly have no clue what you are talking about. It may seem Far-left to you because that is how far to the right the Overton Window (Look it up) has shifted in American political discourse. But hey, if that is the best you can do, that is the best you can do.
 

Pangolin-man

My trusty sidekick is not amused!
What made you decide to study history?

I used to be a zookeeper in animal conservation. Hence, the African Civet in my profile. I just got tired of the way some places, not all, take care of their animals. I have a biology degree as well.

History is my second love after animals. I am doing graduate level work. Probably going to end up teaching college or something along those lines.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
By the way, I think it is funny that the first thing you do is spew generic right-wing canned phrases from somebody's Youtube channel. Far-left Internet bubble. If you think what the people writing on here is Far-left, you clearly have no clue what you are talking about.
It may seem Far-left to you because that is how far to the right the Overton Window (Look it up) has shifted in American political discourse. But hey, if that is the best you can do, that is the best you can do.
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Bernie Sanders, and Ilhan Omar are the first self-described "democratic socialist" politicians who argue for the same policies found in Nordic and Western European countries. Besides, I am sure that as a historian you know that the Overton Window tends to shift to the left as certain changes are inevitable.

I have been a part of the fighting game community for almost two decades. The people in the FGC are generally very liberal. They advocate for policies that you have read about in this thread such as reparations, free college, and the abolishment of police and prisons. Some people even defended Black Lives Matter, the movement, not the slogan, and their Marxism for crying out loud. To claim that the writing in this thread is anything but far left is disingenuous when most people have already revealed their socialism and Marxism 30 or 40 pages ago.

As far as me being a conservative and spewing generic right-wing talking points, I have yet to vote for a Republican. I voted for Barack Obama in 2012 and Gary Johnson in 2016.
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
I used to be a zookeeper in animal conservation. Hence, the African Civet in my profile. I just got tired of the way some places, not all, take care of their animals. I have a biology degree as well.

History is my second love after animals. I am doing graduate level work. Probably going to end up teaching college or something along those lines.
Nice! Takes a lot out of you to be a teacher, not sure that would be for me so I definitely respect that.

I'm in Occupational Therapy school, I love anatomy, kinesiology, fitness, injury prevention, and things of that nature, so I understand your visceral reaction to me misrepresenting history earlier. It's the same way I feel when I see a "personal trainer" having a teenager just trying to get stronger or a morbidly obese person trying to change their habits to save their life, do bad and dangerous lifts that destroy their joints, rotator cuffs, and lower backs. That's why I asked, because it is frustrating to see something you're passionate about be misused or treated badly. Also, I love animals too but in a different way I would say, most of my recreational reading is studying animals like Alligators or super predators like them that are unfortunately extinct.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Bernie Sanders, and Ilhan Omar are the first self-described "democratic socialist" politicians who argue for the same policies found in Nordic and Western European countries. Besides, I am sure that as a historian you know that the Overton Window tends to shift to the left as certain changes are inevitable.

I have been a part of the fighting game community for almost two decades. The people in the FGC are generally very liberal. They advocate for policies that you have read about in this thread such as reparations, free college, and the abolishment of police and prisons. Some people even defended Black Lives Matter, the movement, not the slogan, and their Marxism for crying out loud. To claim that the writing in this thread is anything but far left is disingenuous when most people have already revealed their socialism and Marxism 30 or 40 pages ago.
You keep attaching labels that don't fit and naming names without any useful context, and it keeps not working.

You know what else is in this thread? The long and elaborate disclaimer I wrote and signed saying that I have never been nor will ever be a Marxist or a far-leftist. But go on and keep shooting your shot, ignoring me, and pretending people somehow can't believe in the tenets of different ideologies without having to adhere to then or fall under their labels and titles, so you can keep your winning record and pretending I'm an ideologue not worth acknowledging, and not the guy making your argument look sillier than Freddy Krueger in a prom dress.

:coffee: .
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Like who? And YET AGAIN, there's the Liberal label when you have absolutely no fucking idea what I believe in or adhere to, at all.
After participating in this thread for almost 70 pages, I actually think I have a very good idea what people believe and adhere to.

You have to be honest with yourself and admit you are very liberal.
 

ChaosTheory

A fat woman came into the shoe store today...
I would say the protestors in Kenosha who are looting local businesses and destroying federal as well as private property are toxic, would you not?
Good luck getting a denouncement here. You're talking to guys that, at the least, support these actors. Likely, they find these acts morally correct.

The prominent voices aren't going to come out and endorse it (for the most part). What they have done for months is refuse to acknowledge it. They still refuse to use the term "riot" in lieu "mostly peaceful protest." It's their constituency and they can't burn bridges with them.

By the way, Rand Paul was attacked by a mob chanting Breonna Taylor's name last night.


Same Rand Paul.
 

ChaosTheory

A fat woman came into the shoe store today...
You have to be honest with yourself and admit you are very liberal.
To be fair, the far-leftists (communists, socialists, etc.) purport to hate liberals just as much as right-wingers. I know what you mean by liberals, though.
 

Anarchist_Gib

Shao Kahn main, please your send prayers!
This tendency to relegate a person to a label contributes to the devolution of robust discourse (there are examples of this from both sides here). I am philosophically a classical liberal, but you'd never be able to deduce my specific opinions on the firearms issue for example from that fact alone. Likewise, I've met modern liberals who are pro-gun or pro-life. Yes these terms CAN give us a relative estimation of one's general perspective, but what good is that when people are nuanced in the life experiences that shape their political/philosophical perspectives? I can't help but notice that in my exchange with multiple people on an issue in which I was clearly in the minority insofar as this site is concerned, I don't recall ever being denounced as a fear-monger or any other common negative descriptors applied to the passionately pro-gun perspective, and I'd like to think that it was due to the way I consistently conducted myself.

In other words, "you're liberal", or "you're right-wing" isn't a substantive argument that contributes anything constructive and has the effect of removing any nuance from the discussion on top of being inflammatory.
 
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Pangolin-man

My trusty sidekick is not amused!
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Bernie Sanders, and Ilhan Omar are the first self-described "democratic socialist" politicians who argue for the same policies found in Nordic and Western European countries. Besides, I am sure that as a historian you know that the Overton Window tends to shift to the left as certain changes are inevitable.

I have been a part of the fighting game community for almost two decades. The people in the FGC are generally very liberal. They advocate for policies that you have read about in this thread such as reparations, free college, and the abolishment of police and prisons. Some people even defended Black Lives Matter, the movement, not the slogan, and their Marxism for crying out loud. To claim that the writing in this thread is anything but far left is disingenuous when most people have already revealed their socialism and Marxism 30 or 40 pages ago.
In what magical fantasy land are Bernie Sanders or Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez demagogues like Trump or Tucker Carlson? Also, they are not even remotely close to the first self-described "democratic socialists" in the United States. Why don't you look up Eugene Debs and the Wobblies for starters? Why don't you look up Eisenhower's (not exactly a bleeding heart liberal) personal memos about how people who are against Social Security, such as the John Birch Society, are fools. If Eisenhower's policies were around the same way today, he would be considered a screaming liberal. Omar has admittedly said some dumb things but nothing near scumbags like Steve King.

You just undercut your own argument. You just admitted that these ideas are mainstream in Nordic and Western European countries. You know what else? They used to be mainstream in the United States. The Overton Window has severely shifted to the right in America since the election of Reagan. To call Bernie Sanders far left, when his policies simply translate to the same policies as FDR's New Deal is ridiculous. I just told you about Eisenhower. Also, you keep equating democratic socialism with communism. Not the same things buddy. ANOTHER LOGICAL FALLACY of False Equivalance. Yet another obvious instance of you repeating talking points from some right-wing loser's youtube page, probaby Dave Rubin or Ben Shapiro. By the way, I do watch a lot of the right wingers on the internet and read their magazines. It's part of my education to get a better understanding of how to construct history. The arguments are typically fallacious and ahistorical. Truly far left ideas would be well to the left of the New Deal like Leninism, which I am against.

To give you a little more history of politics in the US, look up the 1971 Powell Memorandum. All of the ridiculous right-wing think tanks that exist today have their origins in the ideas of the Powell Memo. The whole goal was to undue the New Deal and deregulate everything. It was called the "Excess of Democracy." It was a blueprint for elite businessmen and corporations to undermine the New Deal and take power aware from the movements in the 60s. I guarantee you most of the goofs you quote and read have their origins and funding from this era of history. The Koch brothers, Murdoch and other like them, who fund dipshits like Rubin, Shapiro, Hannity, Carlson, Fox News, Breitbart and others have their funding origins in the Powell Memo ideas.

I have been playing fighting games for three decades. I am old enough to have played the Original Street Fighter in the arcade. The FGC is liberal but not a bunch of far-left crazies like the Weather Underground or something.

Lastly, here is a list of socialist programs and government institutions that seem to work fine last time I checked.

1. Social Security, 2. Medicare, 3. Medicaid, 4. All branches of the armed forces, 5. State Colleges, 6. The Interstate Highway System, 7. All fire departments and police departments (although police departments may be an obvious exception), 8. the Postal Service (unless Trump has his way), 9. the Internet, (The internet has its origins in the tax-funded government program that created it), 10. the Computer (the computer started as a government program as well), 11. NASA and the Space program (all of the modern conveniences such as cell phones and personal computers have their origins in the space program because the goal was to make computers small enough to fit on the Apollo and other space shuttles). I could go on.

But hey, socialism doesn't work at all right?

You want unfettered "free-markets" (there is no such thing in reality) where oligarchs run the show with no regulation? Just look at the Gilded Age in the US. Better yet, Russia is run by oligarchs. Last time I checked, Russia is not exactly super-fun happy land.

Once again, you dodged the original comments about politics in sports. Yawn.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
After participating in this thread for almost 70 pages, I actually think I have a very good idea what people believe and adhere to.

You have to be honest with yourself and admit you are very liberal.
To quote Chris Rock: "I have some shit I'm conservative about, I have some shit I'm liberal about."
No reason under the sun I can't have both. Sorry not sorry that that completely invalidates your "he's a liberal Ideologue Marxist whatever else you have to call me to make me wrong" strategy.
And once again, like the last 70 pages you mention, you are applying labels that don't stick and dodging questions you can't answer.

:coffee: .
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
In what magical fantasy land are Bernie Sanders or Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez demagogues like Trump or Tucker Carlson? Also, they are not even remotely close to the first self-described "democratic socialists" in the United States. Why don't you look up Eugene Debs and the Wobblies for starters? Why don't you look up Eisenhower's (not exactly a bleeding heart liberal) personal memos about how people who are against Social Security, such as the John Birch Society, are fools. If Eisenhower's policies were around the same way today, he would be considered a screaming liberal. Omar has admittedly said some dumb things but nothing near scumbags like Steve King.

You just undercut your own argument. You just admitted that these ideas are mainstream in Nordic and Western European countries. You know what else? They used to be mainstream in the United States. The Overton Window has severely shifted to the right in America since the election of Reagan. To call Bernie Sanders far left, when his policies simply translate to the same policies as FDR's New Deal is ridiculous. I just told you about Eisenhower. Also, you keep equating democratic socialism with communism. Not the same things buddy. ANOTHER LOGICAL FALLACY of False Equivalance. Yet another obvious instance of you repeating talking points from some right-wing loser's youtube page, probaby Dave Rubin or Ben Shapiro. By the way, I do watch a lot of the right wingers on the internet and read their magazines. It's part of my education to get a better understanding of how to construct history. The arguments are typically fallacious and ahistorical. Truly far left ideas would be well to the left of the New Deal like Leninism, which I am against.

To give you a little more history of politics in the US, look up the 1971 Powell Memorandum. All of the ridiculous right-wing think tanks that exist today have their origins in the ideas of the Powell Memo. The whole goal was to undue the New Deal and deregulate everything. It was called the "Excess of Democracy." It was a blueprint for elite businessmen and corporations to undermine the New Deal and take power aware from the movements in the 60s. I guarantee you most of the goofs you quote and read have their origins and funding from this era of history. The Koch brothers, Murdoch and other like them, who fund dipshits like Rubin, Shapiro, Hannity, Carlson, Fox News, Breitbart and others have their funding origins in the Powell Memo ideas.

I have been playing fighting games for three decades. I am old enough to have played the Original Street Fighter in the arcade. The FGC is liberal but not a bunch of far-left crazies like the Weather Underground or something.

Lastly, here is a list of socialist programs and government institutions that seem to work fine last time I checked.

1. Social Security, 2. Medicare, 3. Medicaid, 4. All branches of the armed forces, 5. State Colleges, 6. The Interstate Highway System, 7. All fire departments and police departments (although police departments may be an obvious exception), 8. the Postal Service (unless Trump has his way), 9. the Internet, (The internet has its origins in the tax-funded government program that created it), 10. the Computer (the computer started as a government program as well), 11. NASA and the Space program (all of the modern conveniences such as cell phones and personal computers have their origins in the space program because the goal was to make computers small enough to fit on the Apollo and other space shuttles). I could go on.

But hey, socialism doesn't work at all right?

You want unfettered "free-markets" (there is no such thing in reality) where oligarchs run the show with no regulation? Just look at the Gilded Age in the US. Better yet, Russia is run by oligarchs. Last time I checked, Russia is not exactly super-fun happy land.

Once again, you dodged the original comments about politics in sports. Yawn.
Thank you kindly for revealing your liberal bias by disparaging every conservative pundit and financier in America. If you had practiced even a little bit of self-restrain, you could have fooled me by pretending to be an objective historian. Instead, you are as partisan as any other liberal in this thread. Your conspicuous biases really make disproving you very easy when it would have been very difficult otherwise considering that you know more history than I do.

As far as social programs are concerned, I disagree with the conservative premise that "government sucks at everything" as someone like Ben Shapiro or Rush Limbaugh would claim. Examining the role of government, more specifically when government should intervene and when not, seems like a reasonable discussion to me. Just because you support government intervention on some issues does not make you or the system socialist. Likewise, just because you do not support government intervention on some issues does not make you or the system capitalist. The reality is that most of the world's economies are mixed economies as you alluded to. However, when your solution to every single economic and social issue involves government, you are liberal. Merge such solution with identity politics and you are a democratic socialist as most people in this thread are. I have no idea why you and many others are deeply offended by this label when I am describing you using Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's own words. Some people in this thread have described me as center or center right, yet I take no issue with this label.

To quote Chris Rock: "I have some shit I'm conservative about, I have some shit I'm liberal about."
What are you conservative positions?
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
What are you conservative positions?
Gun control and the death penalty. But even my opinions on those wouldn't be conservative enough to get on a Fox News panel, because I only believe in executing the irredeemable and I'd love to see comprehensive background checks be passed sometime this century.

Also, the fact that @Pangolin-man just gave us all a literal education, and your only argument is STILL sticking the liberal label on it as if that somehow negates his argument, is not a good look.

:coffee:
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Also, the fact that @Pangolin-man just gave us all a literal education, and your only argument is STILL sticking the liberal label on it as if that somehow negates his argument, is not a good look.
If you have not noticed, I really could not careless about optics in a thread in which 90% of the people share the same political ideology. I am confident that most perspectives expressed in this thread are outside of the political mainstream of America. I can provide a dozen examples if you would like me to. If Biden supports defunding the police, massive wealth distribution programs, white privilege, cancel culture, or any other loony, far-left policy or trend, he will most certainly lose in November.

As far as Pangolin-man is concerned again, he plays the deceptive role of an objective historian when he is partisan in reality. He trashed every conservative pundit and media outlet in a single post, which I know that very liberal people like you loved, while pretending to be impartial.
 

xKMMx

Banned
IN my opinion defunding Police is a HUUUUUGGGEE mistake. We need to put more money into the police. Not in their paychecks as at least in my area of my state police are paid very well as they should be because lets face it your life is on the line every day as an officer. BUT! More money needs to go into a program of some sort that background checks and psychologically profiles applicants to police departments nationwide. I also feel there should be MANDATORY psychological debriefings of some sort that any officer at any rank in this country should have to go through quarterly so we can make sure these people are always playing with a full deck. A lot of these police after years on the job are dealing with P.T.S.D and do not get treatment for it and while I will never make excuses for police violence I can say that my thoughts are that some of this violence comes from that and the rest probably comes from people that are shitty to begin with that became cops to push people around that they do not like. Either way I think more money going to weeding out these individuals altogether is not a bad idea because clearly we are letting a lot of these people that should NEVER have that authority put on a badge.
 

Pangolin-man

My trusty sidekick is not amused!
Thank you kindly for revealing your liberal bias by disparaging every conservative pundit and financier in America. If you had practiced even a little bit of self-restrain, you could have fooled me by pretending to be an objective historian. Instead, you are as partisan as any other liberal in this thread. Your conspicuous biases really make disproving you very easy when it would have been very difficult otherwise considering that you know more history than I do.

As far as social programs are concerned, I disagree with the conservative premise that "government sucks at everything" as someone like Ben Shapiro or Rush Limbaugh would claim. Examining the role of government, more specifically when government should intervene and when not, seems like a reasonable discussion to me. Just because you support government intervention on some issues does not make you or the system socialist. Likewise, just because you do not support government intervention on some issues does not make you or the system capitalist. The reality is that most of the world's economies are mixed economies as you alluded to. However, when your solution to every single economic and social issue involves government, you are liberal. Merge such solution with identity politics and you are a democratic socialist as most people in this thread are. I have no idea why you and many others are deeply offended by this label when I am describing you using Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's own words. Some people in this thread have described me as center or center right, yet I take no issue with this label.



What are you conservative positions?

Thanks for conceding man! I really appreciate it!

The very fact that you state simple historical realities as liberal bias tells me, and everyone else here, all I need to know. Reality has a liberal bias, I know. Sucks doesn't it?

I am a democratic socialist. Proud of it. Never said I wasn't. However, there are plenty things of that I think the government should stay out of and not intervene. For instance, I do not think there should be a National Endowment for the Arts. Art is a personal thing and when a government starts sponsoring art, it can easily lead to propaganda. The only issues I readily admit to being a hardcore leftist on are environmental issues because those issues are global and governments are the only things that can reasonably do something to manage those issues.

I was criticizing your use of such terms as liberal and socialism as perjoratives and snarl words and attaching them to ideas as means to dismiss them as somehow untrue. The really sad thing here is that you impy amoral actors such as the Koch Brothers, Rupert Murdoch, Tucker Carlson, et al., are simply conservatives and not the fascists, racists, and oligarchs that they actually are. There is nothing conservative about them. They are a bunch of dangerous reactionaries. Reasonable conservatives are an endangered species in the United States.

Let's review real quick.

  1. You ask for instances of American sports being as political as they are now. I give them to you.
  2. You move the goalposts and change the terms of the question by then asking when have games been canceled.
  3. You then procede to ignore the sports topic entirely without engaging in any of the examples I gave.
  4. You constantly do the same things with Boxy and ItsYaBoi asking you to provide demagogues on the left as dangerous and racist as those on the right. You ignore them and can't do it.
  5. You equate socialism and communism as thought they are the same things. I call you out on it as False Equivalance. You ignore it.
  6. You imply Bernie and AOC are out of the mainstream when, if you polled most of their positions, the majority of Americans and people around the world agree with them. I show you how the Overton Window has shifted so far to the right in the US over the past few decades that it may seem to you that they are far left but in historical context they are not. You ignore that too. You then imply that Bernie and AOC are demagogues on the same level as Trump and Carlson which absolutely ridiculous. I admitted that Omar has said some bad things. I am not a huge fan of hers because of it. But, she is still light years better than reactionaries like James Inhofe and Ted Cruz.
  7. You call me and others liberals and, through the tone of your words, imply that it is an insult. You have been doing it since the beginning of this thread.
  8. You equate Democratic Socialism and Identity Politics. Another False Equivalence. I hate Identity Politics. It does not bring people together. However, if you think that addressing the struggles of African Americans, Latinos, and First Nation peoples in this country throughout its history is Identity Politics, you truly are a lost cause. By the way, Tucker Carlson is the king of Identity Politics for whites in this country. It is just simply racism in a suit.
  9. I never said government is the solution to everything. It isn't. I take it on a case by case basis.
  10. Being a Democratic Socialist means that we all vote, all citizens together, on issues, particularly economic ones, and decide if, how, and where taxes and wealth should be distributed and used. We don't have that in the United States. Never did. The Founders made sure of that when the Constitution was written. Another word for Democratic Socialism is Democracy, which is always a threat to any power system
  11. You dismiss Black Lives Matter as Marxist, thereby implying they are illegitimate, simply because a couple of its founders identify with it. Yet, you completely ignore the thousands of other people, most of whom are not Marxists, who molded the message into an idea that African Americans are disproportionately abused and mistreated in this country, always have been, and that something needs to be done about it.
  12. Some of your previous posts seem to imply that economics is a true science. It isn't. It is a major mistake that many people, particularly right-wing pundits, consistently make. Economics is a social science and a rather poor one to boot. It is not a true science like Biology, Chemistry, or Physics. It does not have solid standards of evidence or proof. In fact, it is all too often used by political actors, particularly capitalist fundamentalists like the Austrian School cult and jackasses who take Ayn Rand seriously, as though it was the true science it is not. Other social sciences such as Archaeology and History at least have standards of proof they need to follow.
  13. Lastly, I am not a historian. Never said I was. I am STUDYING history. I don't have a PhD and decades of research under my belt to justify calling myself one. I may be one one day. However, compared to you, I am an incarnation of Herodotus.
I don't feel the need to engage with you any further. It is a waste of time. I won. You lost. You know it.

@Lt. Boxy Angelman and @ItsYaBoi. This one is a lost cause. I wouldn't bother anymore.

The power of the pangolin cannot be stopped!

PS - Everybody please look up plight of all of the Pangolin species in the world. They are most illegally trafficked mammals in the world right now. They are going extinct. If you can, please give a little money to help save them. Finally, call out the Chinese government and put pressure on them to do something about it in any way you can. The Coronavirus outbreak is probably connected to the consumption of Pangolin and/or Bat meat.

Pangolins are gentle and cool little animals that could use some love.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
If you have not noticed, I really could not careless about optics in a thread in which 90% of the people share the same political ideology. I am confident that most perspectives expressed in this thread are outside of the political mainstream of America. I can provide a dozen examples if you would like me to. If Biden supports defunding the police, massive wealth distribution programs, white privilege, cancel culture, or any other loony, far-left policy or trend, he will most certainly lose in November.

As far as Pangolin-man is concerned again, he plays the deceptive role of an objective historian when he is partisan in reality. He trashed every conservative pundit and media outlet in a single post, which I know that very liberal people like you loved, while pretending to be impartial.
Again, you keep sticking the fucking label, and it keeps not sticking.

Of course you don't care about optics; because you know you've lost the argument, and it has nothing to do with everyone else's ideology. That's why you keep bashing me rather than actually addressing my points; to make me appear like what I have to say is less valuable. I keep telling you and the Trump people; you're not getting the "I don't care about optics, but I'm going to keep moving the goalposts and manipulating the optics" kind of playbook off around me.

Here's another check on my liberal to do list: I like Mitt Romney more than Joe Biden. Yeah, I said it. I think he could hold office for four years and the country wouldn't implode. If the Senate hadn't played Operation Human Shield during the impeachment, Trump and Pence had been removed, and the GOP had had to find a new candidate to run, it almost certainly would have been Mitt Romney, and I almost certainly would have chosen him over Joe Biden if he'd picked a half-decent running mate.

I will say for the hundred twenty-second time: I do not give a flying soaring up in the sky it's a bird it's a plane it's a FUCK about what ideology goes where, what color what policy is, who wrote or nominated what bill and whether or not they believe in the stuff Dave doesn't like, or anything of the goddamn sort. And I can't fucking stand most young liberals I meet because most of them still have the naive and idealistic belief that things are ever going to get better, or that there's some magic balance we can reach where everyone could get what they want, OR THAT COMMUNISM IS IN ANY WAY PRACTICAL, BECAUSE IT FUCKING ISN'T, BUT YOU KEEP INSISTING I'M A MARXIST. They drive me INSANE and make me understand why people pack all their shit into a trailer and go live in the forest. But they are not nearly as bad to me as the people who stand by Trump after seeing what the last four years of his presence has caused in this country.

And for the record: I voted for AOC. I lived in her district, in Pelham Bay Park, and I followed her campaign, and I can tell you in no uncertain or biased terms that she was the best candidate for the job. I wouldn't have cared if she was a fucking conservative nanny living on Park Avenue, she would have gotten my vote regardless. But the fact that women like her and Ilhan Omar have put so much fear into the opposing base, after the decades of Republican leadership that have fallen from grace in complete disgrace that you never hear Fox News or OAN talk about, just tells me that the country at large is still insecure as all fuck about having competent femme leadership. But again, that's just how I feel. I'm sure you or someone else will find a way to ideologue the shit out of me for it.

:coffee: