Amplified (EX, MB) moves — Universal inputs are back

[DDustiNN]

But then what other input are you gonna add instead? MK has a block button, which is the same button for teching throws in IJ. So you're gonna block in an MK game, and then tap the block button a second time while you are being thrown? That actually sounds HARDER as you basically have to tap the block button at the perfect timing, while with directional buttons it should be easier to pull off since it's not the same input. You can't have the same button doing 2 commands that can be mixed with each other. Not to mention that once again, MK is a lot more offensive then IJ, so it must have some offensive aspects to it. So it only make sense that the 50/50 aspects of throws will be still be there.

Why do you need to add an input? Just press throw to tech a throw, like any other fighting game, and be done with it. None of this backward/forward nonsense, or 1 & 2 from MKX. This has nothing to do with the block button...

 

[Sutter Pain]

Why do you need to add an input? Just press throw to tech a throw, like any other fighting game, and be done with it. None of this backward/forward nonsense, or 1 & 2 from MKX. This has nothing to do with the block button...

I don't really understand what he is talking about either with the block button teching throws but I did not play injustice 2.

 

[Roy Arkon]

What is wrong with teching the throw with 1+3 like every other 2d fighting game that I can think of? I mean you already have to react to it to begin with so it is not easy mode.

Why do you need to add an input? Just press throw to tech a throw, like any other fighting game, and be done with it. None of this backward/forward nonsense, or 1 & 2 from MKX. This has nothing to do with the block button...

About the block button I accidentaly mixed it up. My bad.

Regardless, there is nothing wrong with pressing the throw button to tech a throw technically, but for a series like MK that is more offensive based them almost all others, you need to have that aspect of a mixup in some capacity. And because MK11 is not as mixup-heavy as MKX, it make sense to keep the 50/50 aspect of throws from MKX. IJ2 on other hand, is mainly about Zoning, so there was no problem in that game to make the throw tech mechanic being just one button for both directions and not having a mixup aspect for it there, because it's not a Rushdown and mixup heavy like MKX was. Same thing with Street Fighter as that series is more about neutral and not as offense-based as Mortal Kombat. Also, having the mixup aspect for throws in MK games adds another layer of depth to the game, as depending on where you are on the screen you need to get the right read. It's not just pressing the button, it's also understanding where you are on the screen and what the opponent can do with his character. Even if it can only help you to extend, this can only help you nonetheless. That is called "throw psychology". You can see it in this video from Ragnarok, starting at 12:52.

 

[Sutter Pain]

About the block button I accidentaly mixed it up. My bad.

Regardless, there is nothing wrong with pressing the throw button to tech a throw technically, but for a series like MK that is more offensive based them almost all others, you need to have that aspect of a mixup in some capacity. And because MK11 is not as mixup-heavy as MKX, it make sense to keep the 50/50 aspect of throws from MKX. IJ2 on other hand, is mainly about Zoning, so there was no problem in that game to make the throw tech mechanic being just one button for both directions and not having a mixup aspect for it there, because it's not a Rushdown and mixup heavy like MKX was. Also, having the mixup aspect for throws in MK games adds another layer of depth to the game, as depending on where you are on the screen you need to get the right read. It's not just pressing the button, it's also understanding where you are on the screen and what the opponent can do with his character. That is called "throw psychology". You can see it in this video from Ragnarok, starting at 12:52.

Still have to disagree and will say all throws forward or backwards in 2d fighting game should be teched universally with a button press regardless of where you are on the screen. Yes all fighting games are offensive does not mean we can't have standard defensive options like the ability to consistently break throws that already take damage when done correctly.

Just my opinion though not a fact.

 

[spidey300]

i bet a majority of the people that complained never even played the build. just needless complaining about a tine more inputs. casuals huh

 

[Roy Arkon]

Still have to disagree and will say all throws forward or backwards in 2d fighting game should be teched universally with a button press regardless of where you are on the screen. Yes all fighting games are offensive does not mean we can't have standard defensive options like the ability to consistently break throws that already take damage when done correctly.

Just my opinion though not a fact.

So taking out a huge aspect of depth to the game and also ruining the uniqueness of the game, all for what? Similarity? That is not a standard defensive option and it's not worth being forced into the came and taking other things from it for that reason.That is just like it's wrong to take out the Block Button for similarity alone, especially that Soul Calibur and Bloody Roar also have a Block Button, and MK already had that way before those 2 franchises started. Also, the damage you take from teching a throw is very very small, maybe like 2% damage. I really don't think anyone should complain about the damage.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

I love the change. It was artificial complexity just for sake of complexity.

Personally, I don't wanna have to learn a different way to enhance a move for every character I try to play. That's gonna make me NOT want to play other characters.

Not how to market a fighting game imo. So once again, love the change.

 

[Sutter Pain]

So taking out a huge aspect of depth to the game and also ruining the uniqueness of the game, all for what? Similarity? That is not a standard defensive option and it's not worth being forced into the came and taking other things from it for that reason.That is just like it's wrong to take out the Block Button for similarity alone. Also, the damage you take from teching a throw is very very small, maybe like 2% damage. I really don't think anyone should complain about the damage.

The block button I can live with but the throw teching is the worst aspect of modern MK games imho. My mind will never be changed on that and I do not think a 50\50 guess on throws is depth or should be considered unique.

We will have to respectfully disagree on this or at least I will.

 

[Roy Arkon]

The block button I can live with but the throw teching is the worst aspect of modern MK games imho. My mind will never be changed on that and I do not think a 50\50 guess on throws is depth or should be considered unique.

We will have to respectfully disagree on this or at least I will.

Whatever you like it or not it is a layer of mind games in MK, and it only makes it good for the game. You can prefer whatever mechanic you want that's perfectly fine, but that's how it works. I will leave it at that.

 

[Sutter Pain]

Whatever you like it or not it is a layer of mind games in MK, and it only makes it good for the game. You can prefer whatever mechanic you want that's perfectly fine, but that's how it works. I will leave it at that.

I am aware of how it works and expressed my opinion on the matter that it is a bad mind game attatched to a 50\50 regardless of how you look at it. Something unique does not mean it is automatically good and I will just leave it at that.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

I think it's a good change to make it the interact button instead of block, so you don't have situations like Quan Chi's Meter Rune rune, where you do regular rune, and you want to block after but you accidentally trigger the EX.

 

[Tony at Home]

The previous meterburn system was never implemented with the goal of purposely making things harder. NRS and Ed Boon has always been clear that's not part of their design goals.

The solution they came up with sucked and they found a better way to do it. NRS was never on the "pressing extra buttons for no reason" side.

 

[John Grizzly]

Bit mentioned interactable but he also said block at one point. I hope it's still block, because if not, it's going to totally throw my MK button layout off. I always kept block in the middle and kept my buttons as much like the old arcade games as possible.

 

[MadPropz101]

Hear hear!

 

[Scyther]

This was probably the bit of information from the kast that excited me the most. I'm really happy they decided to go back to the old (basically) system of amp'ing moves. Like others have said already, I like to play a variety of characters, and having to memorize what amounts to two separate inputs for each special would have been taxing and downright prohibitive for me.

+1 from me, NRS.

 

[Sablicious]

I like to play a variety of characters, and having to memorize what amounts to two separate inputs for each special would have been taxing and downright prohibitive for me.
+1 from me, NRS.

...And life -- not just frivolous gaming -- will continue to feel that way ("taxing and downright prohibitive"), if one cannot or is (most likely) unwilling to create of new neural pathways ('connectomes'). Genuine disabilities (colour-blindness, physical handicaps, missing digits / limbs etc.) aside, any argument or complaint revolving around something being "too hard" or "inaccessible", is an effective argument against evolution.

Protesting for easier or more homogenised input command schemes in fighting games, is tantamount to boycotting one's running of a military obstacle course -- because it's "too hard" -- and then still expecting to be accepted into the armed services (i.e., for the threshold for entry into a the group, to condescend to one's sensibilities). To reconcile the analogy: If exampled military were to nevertheless accept someone unwilling to undertake their training regime (because it was "too hard"), it would clearly undermine the effectiveness of said military.

Just sayin' ¯\_(v_v)_/¯

 

[Marinjuana]

I wanted to give it a shot. I don't think they were asking a lot out of players to memorize it, I think it could have been sensical in relation to the move(you press the direction you knock the opponent for example) and it could have made it just a bit tougher to pick up new characters which I don't think is a bad thing. And yeah it is kind of an arbitrary choice to add an input system like that but so is characters with different inputs for special moves and whatnot.(Like if everyone's main projectile was BF2.)

If they changed the system I imagine they felt confident about it but still I wanted to feel it out

 

[Sablicious]

^ An OPTION for the new-cum-dead input scheme, would have sufficed.... But, alas -- ¢a$uali$m is as tyrannical and uncompromising a backwards ideology, as any that this species has ever evacuated from its collective rectum.

 

[AIM_Dopeness]

This is a great change and needed to happen. Props to NRS for listening to the feedback on this.

 

[Gooberking]

^ An OPTION for the new-cum-dead input scheme, would have sufficed.... But, alas -- ¢a$uali$m is as tyrannical and uncompromising a backwards ideology, as any that this species has ever evacuated from its collective rectum.

Your pseudo intellectual posts just get better all the time. I for one am sorry your superiority is constantly being victimized by all the scrubby peasants wondering about. Life must be hard in the castle.

 

[Sablicious]

your superiority

Everything seems "superior" to those who feel "inferior".

That, and I think your inner tumult, perhaps related to pathological insecurity (*Disclaimer: I'm neither a psychologist nor Scientologist), has obfuscated your understand of the fundamental point here -- which is:
WHEN IT COMES TO CASUALISING SOMETHING, IT'S ALWAYS "OUR WAY OR THE NO-BUY WAY"; WHEREAS, WHEN THE "VETERAN" OR "HARDCORE" WANT EVEN THE MOST INFINITESIMAL INSTANCE OF DEMOGRAPHIC PANDERING -- EVEN WHEN IT RESPECTS, INCORPORATES AND DOES NOT COME AT THE EXPENSE OF ANY ASSOCIATED CAUSAL COSSETING -- IT'S ALWAYS "ELITIST SCUM!".

Tyranny is evinced by a sense of "superiority" and entitlement; not by a willingness to compromise.

 

[JDM]

Disappointing. I feel like that would have made the game fresher for longer, learning new characters would add a slight new element to each special move, and separate good and great players. As of now, it's so easy to instantly pick up a new character in NRS games and do well with them, if not better than your main. I hope MK11 won't be like that but NRS has very very straightforward games so I'm not holding my breath.

I like learning a lot of characters and I was excited for it. Just to make each character feel more and more different. Well, I didn't think it would stay since even Ed Boon wanted the normal MB stuff but eh.

 

[Gooberking]

Everything seems "superior" to those who feel "inferior".

That, and I think your inner tumult, perhaps related to pathological insecurity (*Disclaimer: I'm neither a psychologist nor Scientologist), has obfuscated your understand of the fundamental point here -- which is:
WHEN IT COMES TO CASUALISING SOMETHING, IT'S ALWAYS "OUR WAY OR THE NO-BUY WAY"; WHEREAS, WHEN THE "VETERAN" OR "HARDCORE" WANT EVEN THE MOST INFINITESIMAL INSTANCE OF DEMOGRAPHIC PANDERING -- EVEN WHEN IT RESPECTS, INCORPORATES AND DOES NOT COME AT THE EXPENSE OF ANY ASSOCIATED CAUSAL COSSETING -- IT'S ALWAYS "ELITIST SCUM!".

Tyranny is evinced by a sense of "superiority" and entitlement; not by a willingness to compromise.

Be careful about dramatic doubling down. I hear it can turn your hair orange.

 

[JDM]

You don’t need high execution to have a large skill gap in any fighting game.

Simple games tend to lead to complex metas.
Complex games tend to lead to simple metas.

Not saying everything needs to be braindead easy. But it certainly doesn’t need to be overly complicated either.

What the hell even is this post lmao. Complex games tend to lead to simple metas? do you just spit bullshit and expect people to buy it?

 

[Sablicious]

This is a great change and needed to happen. Props to NRS for listening to the feedback on this.

What change?... Nothing changed. MK11 practically mirrors the input scheme of MKX and MK9 before it... Even the near-useless stance change (a.k.a. "shimmy") is still there! 'Supers' are two buttons; specials are what we expected, perhaps simplified in certain instances; universal couching uppercuts are present and accounted for... Not sure what "change" you're referring to...

Given thus, and unless you're in the habit of divvying "props" (...whatever they are) for those doing effectively nothing (or for the 'bravery' in caving to the hew and cries of catatonically fretful casuals), I suggest re-allocating the 'kudos' to someone who more deserves it... Kim Jong-un and his gay lover, Donnie Dennison for example... whatev's.